"Piedmont, S.C." > wrote in message
...
> Janet Bostwick wrote:
>> "Piedmont" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Piedmont" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> My original problem was, my pizza dough is too tough to roll out,
>>>>
>>>> I just made this recipe for dough and it is typical for what has been
>>>> happening to my pizza dough,
>>>>
>>>> 1 1/2 cups very warm water
>>>> 2 teaspoons yeast
>>>> 2 teaspoons sugar
>>>> 3 cups bread flour
>>>> 1 teaspoon salt
>>>>
>>>> I ended up adding an extra 17 Tbsp's of flour in order to get the dough
>>>> into a ball during kneading. Which is similar to what happened with my
>>>> other recipe. I use brand name flour. I've heard of making adjustments
>>>> but 17 Tbsp's, isn't that a little odd? If I didn't add the extra flour
>>>> the dough was soupy and totally unable to form a ball during the
>>>> mix/kneading cycle. Even with 17 the dough did form a ball but was
>>>> still sticking to the sides of the bread machine pan. Not at all what
>>>> you'd expect a dough ball being kneaded during the making of a loaf of
>>>> the bread that I make.
>>>>
>>>> What I'm going to do is let this rise once after taking it out of the
>>>> machine, then punch it down and place in 1 gallon bags and slip into
>>>> the icebox and pull it out this afternoon to start warming up to use
>>>> tonight to see if any differences happen. Anyone got any suggestions or
>>>> a firm recipe with all instructions through out the process, before
>>>> during and after it comes out of the machine?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Piedmont
>>> The dough that I made this morning and then placed in the refrigerator,
>>> I used it tonight, my observation was the extra flour added during
>>> kneading was much needed as the dough was touchable but still slightly
>>> sticky, I floured it in order to spread it out. It was weird as the
>>> dough started to go rubbery for a second then imediately relaxed and
>>> went way too big and round. The dough was indeed light in the middle and
>>> crunchy on the bottom but a tad too thin for my taste but we could pick
>>> it up to eat. Cooked at 480 degrees on a pizza stone, I don't have a
>>> paddle so I spread the dough out on heavy duty aluminum foil and slide
>>> it onto and off the hot stone (haven't burned myself yet!) I'm onto to
>>> something good here, the original recipe called for 2.2 cup flour and .5
>>> cup semolina flour, can't find semolina yet but as I understand semolina
>>> is cream of wheat but I don't know if it should be fine like flour or
>>> coarser just like cream of wheats.
>
>> Semolina is not Cream of Wheat. It is a higher-protein specialty wheat
>> flour used for making pasta. Many bread recipes call for it also. What
>> kind of flour does your recipe call for? You just say 2.2 cups of flour.
>> All purpose flour absorbs a whole lot less water than bread flour. The
>> higher the protein content of the flour, the more water the flour will
>> absorb. Bread flour is higher protein than all purpose flour. If you
>> are using all purpose flour when your recipe calls for bread flour, that
>> may be why you have very wet dough. You should be able to find semolina
>> at a health food store or even possibly in the bulk food area of a
>> supermarket. Semolina is just slightly sandier than regular flour and the
>> color is yellowish. It is a heavier feeling flour, not fluffy like all
>> purpose or bread flour. I'd recommend you try to find the right
>> ingredients for your particular recipe or find a different recipe. It
>> will make all the difference in handling for you. Just adding more all
>> purpose flour to absorb the water distorts the final product.
>>
>> Janet
>
> Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia that I got my Cream of Wheats info from,
> Also, the original recipe called for 2.5 cups of bread flour plus .5 cup
> of semolina flour. (http://www.fabulousfoods.com/recipes/article/46/28295)
> Is semolina made from hard or soft wheat? Plus, you my be onto something
> as I used all purpose flour instead of bread flour. Next time I will use
> the bread flour and find the semolina somewhere.
>
> "There are two main types of semolina sold on the general market. Durum
> semolina, made from hard wheat, and soft wheat semolina, also known as
> farina or by the trade name Cream of Wheat, used as a hot breakfast cereal
> and for desserts such as semolina milk pudding. In North India, semolina
> is known as Suji; in South India, Rava or Ravey. In Turkey, Semolina is
> known as I.rmik,and Sameed in Arabic.
> Semolina made from durum wheat or other hard wheats (that are easier to
> grow than durum) is yellow in color. It is usually prepared with the main
> dish, either boiled with water into a pasty substance, e.g. as gnocchi (in
> Italy), or as the basis for dried products such as couscous (North
> Africa), and bulgur (Turkey and the Levant). Couscous is made by mixing
> roughly 2 parts semolina with 1 part durum flour. [2]
> Semolina from softer types of wheats is almost white in color. In the
> United States it has come to be known by the trade name Cream of Wheat. In
> Germany, it is known as wiktionary:Grieß and is mixed with egg to make
> Grießknödel which can be added to soup. The particles are fairly coarse,
> between 0.25 and 0.75 millimetres in diameter. When boiled, it turns into
> a soft, mushy porridge. This semolina is popular in North Western Europe
> and North America as a dessert, boiled with milk, and sweetened called
> semolina pudding. It is often flavored with vanilla and served with jam.
> In Sweden and Russia, it is eaten as breakfast porridge, sometimes mixed
> with raisins and served with milk. In Swedish ít is known as
> mannagrynsgröt. In the middle east, it is used to make desserts called
> Harisa or so called Basbosa or Nammora."
O.k., I see where Wikipedia calls it Cream of Wheat. Cream of Wheat as I
recall it is tiny 'pellets' of white grain. The semolina in your recipe is
nothing like that. It is quite fine and slightly sandy feeling. Let me
clarify that in my market area (Idaho) there is semolina (yellow and sandy)
that I use for my Italian breads and duram (tannish) that I have not used.
Both are hard wheat products. As to the water absorption, it is an
acknowledged fact. But I am a skeptic and needed to prove it to myself. So
more than 10 years ago, I took an equal weight of flour to an equal weight
of water for every flour that I had in the house at that time. Some were
bread flour . . .organic, or house brand and several name brands . . .some
were all purpose flour ( same mix of types) and a cake flour(a soft flour).
In all maybe 10-12 mixtures. The results were that I had everything from a
runny, soupy mix to a stiff dough -- progressing upward from the cake flour
to the bread flour. The interesting part was that there were noticeable
differences within the categories of all purpose and bread flour, determined
by their protein content. I now know that I must expect to make initial
adjustments to any bread recipe where I change the flour brand or type.
Protein content from all purpose flour upward to bread flour ranges from
somewhere in the low 10 percent to well over 14 percent for the higher
quality bread flour. If you look at the King Arthur web site, they give the
protein content of all of the flour that they carry. It may give you some
insight. The other important thing about mixing flour and water is that the
flour does not absorb all the water at once during mixing. To avoid
over-flouring, make a rough mix of the flour and water, cover the bowl with
plastic wrap and walk away for 20 minutes. Not only will the flour have
absorbed more of the liquid and become fully hydrated, chemical development
of the gluten has begun during the 20 minutes. This means that any kneading
(mechanical gluten development) you do from this point on will be much
easier and probably less necessity for added flour.
HTH
Janet