On Sun, 8 Mar 2009 17:33:21 -0700 (PDT), Will
> wrote:

>On Mar 8, 6:14 pm, Boron Elgar > wrote:
>
>> You mix dough that plainly every time you bake that you can do that up
>> front?
>
>No. But the example holds. Meaning, I typically want to end up with
>1800 grams of dough. Why? because it fits my proofing baskets. (and no
>I did not buy proofing baskets to impress the neighbors).

You think that is why I have them - to impress the neighbors? Or
anyone here?

Frankly, it isn't too difficult to know how much dough I need to fill
a particular basket, form or pan. And I hate to break the news to
you, but I am one sharpie when it comes to "scaling", too and can get
within a quarter ounce on rolls and within an ounce - ounce and a half
on 2 lb+ loaves - unaided - that is, without a scale. Don't worry,
I've verified it. Even better, I like to scare the kids or The Hub and
let them verify it once in awhile.

I am not posting this to brag about any particular talents I think I,
and I alone, have. This ain't rocket science. You ever watch 'em make
bagels in a bagel shop? You think the guy weighs each one when he
knocks off hundreds at a time?

>I can
>discount the starter piece, because I retain a piece of finished dough
>from bake to bake. So what I add at the beginning, I retain at the
>end. And I eyeball that. I keep a piece of dough about the size of a
>ping pong ball.

Good work, Luke. You trust in the Force.
>
>So the math (attention Mike R) works like this 100% (flour) + 68%
>(water) + 2% (salt) = 170 parts. This means my water is 1800/170*68 or
>720 grams. 720 grams is something I simply remember. Why 720? Because
>that's the level that gives me "the feel, very good extensibility" at
>the S&F stage. Now, what I typically do is drop that starter dough in
>water to soften it. My bucket happens to be calibrated. It was a $2
>bucket, It's nothing to impress the neighbors either.

Why do you keep harping on this in response to me? I haven't said
anything at all about such things. I'm not a Luddite. I have a kitchen
full of gadgets (including two very fine scales, I might add).

snip

>When I'm ready to finish. I add the remaining water to net to 720. Add
>the remaining flour (and salt) to 1850 (I assume the ping pong ball is
>50). That's the basic dough.
>
>I don't care what the dough feels like at this point. What's to know?
>There's no gluten. What I have is a sticky mass. When I get to the
>S&F's feel counts for everything.... but guess what... mixing was 12
>or 16 hours ago. Adjusting ripe dough with fresh flour is NOT A GOOD
>THING.

Did anyone suggest doing that? Surely I didn't, so there is no need to
mention it. In fact, no one ever mentioned it. Why go there?

I know from the condition of my dough *before* it goes into a lengthy
ferment what it will be on the other end. My judgment is made *before*
any fermenting or rising of the final dough. I know how to make that
judgment if I am going to use the DLX to knead or if I am going to use
stretch and folds, a combo of the two, or if I am going to skip
kneading altogether and just allow the dough to sit in the fridge for
overnight (and I was doing that a lot earlier than Bittman publicizing
of Sullivan's idea). Each of those plans would require the dough to be
of a slightly different consistency, assuming I were using the same
flours for each plan. And that consistency could vary even more if I
am proofing at room temp and it is cold, dry, warm or humid in the
kitchen.

>So... I keep a few numbers in my head. The relative hydration numbers
>for basic classes of bread: whole grain vs white vs mixed. And I
>adjust for the baked form: boule, batard, or pan. So 1800 for boules,
>2200 for pans... We're talking half a dozen numbers. My neighbor has a
>PhD in Nuclear Physics. Knowing 6 or 7 ratios fails to impress him.
>He's much more interested in the S&F's. Manifold theory and
>laminations, I guess.

And if playing with those numbers floats your boat, use them. No one
says you cannot or should not. You can use anything you like to make
bread, any flour, any water, any yeast or sourdough, salt rise or
magic.. You can bake it with gas, wood fire or electric, with or
without steam, on a stone, on parchment or in a flower pot. You are
100% entitled to your own methods and comfort level. Just don't tell
me what you do is a *better* method than mine.

Boron