SystemX wrote:
> Dutch wrote:
>> SystemX wrote:
>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy
>>>>>>>>>>> and still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word
>>>>>>>>>> 'not'. I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why
>>>>>>>>>> not score a point.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That was redundant.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>>>>>>>>> identification:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Including animals?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is related to your statement about "we are all God".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I figured that. Every plant, animal, even things that seem inert
>>>>>> to us are manifestations of a universal force. A rock is 99% empty
>>>>>> space, the other 1% is comprised of spinning particles, miniature
>>>>>> galaxies. Its apparent solid form is simply a limitation of our
>>>>>> powers of perception.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps your understanding of animals is limited by your power of
>>>>> perception.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, we only know the world through the filters of our
>>>> perception. How could it be otherwise?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I get the feeling you're confused, perhaps indoctrinated.
>>>>
>>>> Ahh, out come the daggers, I must have hit a nerve.
>>>
>>> No. You seem confused,
>>
>> When contemplating the universe perhaps appearing confused is a sign
>> of wisdom. One of the new and exciting principles of physics is
>> uncertainty.
>>
>>> and seem to be balancing a view between their being a God and not.
>>
>> I think I stated my position quite clearly. I reject "religion" per
>> se, along with "worship" and most other artifacts of conventional
>> religion. But there is a force underlying everything, far more
>> powerful than nuclear energy, and we are each manifestations of that
>> force. The idea that nothing we can't see does not exist is simply
>> naive. Quantum physics is exploring whole new realms of reality.
>
> You now seem to be sifting your position from a God like "organising
> force" to a physical one.

It's both and more. It is an organized, intelligent,
dynamic physical energy, just as we see manifested in
each living thing. I can see you struggling to fit
what I am saying into your existing paradigms. That's
natural. I am not attempting to convince you of
anything or make you "believe in" anything. I am
simply trying to convey my understanding of the nature
of reality. You said, "We're just animals on a
planet". I call that glib, we're much more than that.
First of all, we have the ability to be aware of
ourselves in a way that no other animal has. This
ability also allows us to contemplate reality and the
universe itself. That is "all" I am attempting to do.
You can go along for the ride or you can stay home.


>>>> Perhaps your "self-indoctrination" as an agnostic-atheist is causing
>>>> internal distress?
>>>
>>> Not really. I'm quite happy with my view. I'm not sitting on a fence.
>>
>> "I seem to hover between being an agnostic and an atheist."
>
> Both are clearly on one side of the 'God fence'.

Actually they are not. An agnostic by definition has
no opinion on "God", it's an open position. An atheist
has a definite belief that there is no God, or if you
prefer, a firm absence of God belief. Atheists can get
testy about being defined. My point was that while you
are accusing me of sitting on some fence, in fact you
have said explicitly that you yourself are hovering
between two very different "God belief" positions.
The fact is, ambivalence (confusion) about things
beyond our ability to prove or know is a sign of
wisdom, open-mindedness.

But you have misread my comments, I'm not talking
about "God belief", or any kind of belief. I am
attempting to put into words my perception of the
universe. Fundamental in that perception is that there
is a force that permeates all things, call it life if
you like. One can feel that force in oneself by being
still and focusing on the heat of the solar plexus.
The existence of this force has been warped into all
forms of bizarre religious beliefs.