On 8/8/2008 1:28 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
> In article >, mail box > wrote:
>
>> The homebrew digest had a recent thread on this subject. Without
>> cutting and pasting from that forum, what I took away from reading the
>> discussion was that all yeasts are 'designed' for their environments.
>> Bread yeast creates glutens,
>
> No, it doesn't. Gluten comes from wheat. Not yeast.

Meh, I'm no expert on bread making, having never done it and never
having researched it. I probably misrepresented the discussion on the
HBD. Since I can't be certain, I'll post their comments here in
abbreviated form and trying to maintain proper accreditation:

> From: David Scheidt
> Subject: baking yeast
>
>> Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 09:30:17 -0800
>> From: "Matt Wallace"
>> Subject: behold the starch-busting power of...yeast?
>>
>> Hello HBDers,
>>
>> So I've recently baked my first few loaves of yeast bread (btw, I
>> highly suggest the no-knead bread recipe that was flying around the
>> internet a year or so ago- it's a beautiful thing).
>>
>> It is my understanding that the beauty of a nice crusty loaf is the
>> result of fermentation by saccharomyces cerevsiae...just like in beer.
>> But where's the sugar? One passage in a baking book I've read (The
>> King Arthur Flour Baker's Companion) says there's no need to add sugar
>> to your bread dough, because the yeast can break down enough starches
>> themselves to fuel a nice rise and develop flavor. To what extent
>> does this go on in beer fermentation? Do the yeast have their own
>> starch busting enzymes? Could a very generous pitch balance out a
>> high or low temperature mash?
>
> While the yeast used for baking bread and brewing beer are the same
> species, they're very different beasties. They're both bred specifically
> for their intended purpose, and do that very well. They do poorly at
> other things. There are a number of traits that baking yeasts have been
> bred for: activity, temperature insensitivity, tolerance to dehydration,
> and the ability to go after starches are the most interesting to the home
> baker.
>
> With a good modern yeast -- and any packaged yeast sold comerecially
> in the US is pretty good -- there's no need to have any sugar at all.
> They'll decompose the starch themselves.
>
> I'm a fan of instant dried yeasts, which are sold in the supermarket
> as bread machine or "Rapid-Rise" yeast. Yeast plant for yeast plant,
> they're no more active than any other yeast, but they're denser, so there
> are more of them per teaspoon. They're also somewhat more likely to
> be alive than active dry yeast, so by mass you get a bit more yeast.
> Control for that, and they're no more rapid than other yeast. They're
> big advantage for me, and the typical home baker, is their ease of use.
> There's no need to rehyrdrate them before use; mix them in the flour, and
> you're set. They've also got a long shelf life: two years in an unopened
> package at room temperature, much longer in a freezer. If you're at all
> serious about baking, buy it in bulk. I can get two pounds of IDY at
> Sam's for about $4. My grocery store wants $8 for a four ounce jar.
>
> As for no knead breads go, I'm not impressed by the one that was in NYT a
> year or so ago. It's something of a forgotten fact that any dough with
> suffeicently high hydration, will develop the gluten, if allowed to set
> for a long enough time. It was only with the invention of the mechanical
> mixer that kneading to develop the gluten became the universal way of
> making bread. It saves time and space, and so money.

On sourdough:

On 8/8/2008 9:11 AM, doublesb wrote:

> I've used champagne yeast for bread with good results. I've also made
> a starter with champagne yeast and let it "sour". Best sourdough bread
> I ever had. Tried other wine yeasts besides champagne yeast with not
> as good results. Try Prisse de Mousse. Make a starter let sit 24 hours
> then add more flour and bake.
>
> Bob

> From: "John Stewart"
[snipped]
> I subscribe to Cook's Illustrated, a truly amazingly good cooking
> magazine. No ads, just extremely well tested recipes and equipment
> reviews (they also have a TV show on PBS, America's Test Kitchen, also
> very good).
>
> Their latest (Jan/Feb 2008) issue includes "No Knead Bread Recipe
> 2.0". They took that New York Times no knead bread recipe, tested it
> with 5 inexperienced bakers, and then improved it based on the
> results.
>
> Two additional ingredients they added, to add depth and character to
> the bread, are a tablespoon of vinegar (to replicate a sourdough type
> flavor) and 3 ounces of mild lager (to add a complexity of flavor not
> delivered by the instant yeast).