"Jonathan Ball" > wrote in message ink.net...
> Derek wrote:
[..]
> > At the very start of this thread Jon offered a syllogism
> > in the form
> >
> > 1) If I eat meat, I cause harm to animals
> > 2) I do not eat meat;
> > Therefore,
> > 3)I do not cause harm to animals.
> >
> > It has two premisses and a conclusion. It's also commits
> > a fallacy, since the second premiss denies the antecedent
> > in the first premiss.
>
> It certainly does! ALL "vegans" commit this fallacy,
> including you.

Ipse dixit and false. You have no support for that claim
at all, and being that I myself don't commit this fallacy,
for I do know that animals die during crop production,
then your claim that ALL vegans commit this fallacy is
clearly absurd.

> >>>Secondly, my task is then to show that HIS argument
> >>>is not the argument put forward by vegans.
>
> And you FAIL

It might be put forward by a few, but I've never seen
any examples of it here, so once again your claim falls
to ground. The only clear example of someone denying
collateral deaths exist during the production of their
food is a meatarian's;

"The production of the beef I eat causes no CDs."
"The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period."
Rick Etter 2003-11-15

No vegan on these animal related news groups has
ever denied the collateral deaths associated with their
food, so not only is your first premiss false on the
basis of an invalid relationship between its antecedent
and consequent, it's false on the basis that you have no
evidence to support the general meaning of it either.

> >>Which you can't do, because it is.
> >
> > Then show where vegans have put forward such an
> > argument where since they don't eat meat, then no
> > animals die during the production of the crops they
> > eat.
>
> Go Vegan and live cruelty free. Peace is only found
> with how we live our lives...not through some
> external belief in spirituality. Treat all animals
> the way you would want to be treated. Vegans may be
> smaller, but we are far more healthy on average.
> http://tinyurl.com/7gvl

What part of that statement implies animals aren't
killed during crop production, or that cruelty from
the hands of others doesn't exist while personally
living a cruelty-free lifestyle oneself?

> The vegan lives a death free lifestyle, and your
> useless efforts to queer this fact by pointing your
> finger at us for the deaths caused by the farmer
> isn't fooling anyone.
> http://tinyurl.com/7gw1

Again, what part in that statement implies deaths
aren't caused by the hands of others while personally
living a death-free lifestyle oneself? To paraphrase,
one might easy state;

"The atheist lives a religion-free lifestyle, and your
useless efforts to queer this fact by pointing your
finger at them for the prayers said by theists on their
behalf isn't fooling anyone."

You lose, Jon. You always will. Throw again.