In article
>,
Joe Sallustio > wrote:

> On Jul 8, 7:08 pm, Billy > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> > Joe Sallustio > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jul 4, 1:21 am, Billy > wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > >,
> > > > Joe Sallustio > wrote:
> >
> > > > > On Jul 3, 9:08 am, "Pavel314" > wrote:
> > > > > > "Billy" > wrote in message
> >
> > > > > .
> > > > > >au..
> > > > > >.
> >
> > > > > > > In article >,
> > > > > > > "Pavel314" > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > >> "Billy" > wrote in message
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >>et.a
> > > > > > >>u...
> > > > > > >> > In article >,
> > > > > > >> > "Pavel314" > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > >> >> I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint
> > > > > > >> >> grape
> > > > > > >> >> vines
> > > > > > >> >> without
> > > > > > >> >> any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.
> >
> > > > > > >> >> Thanks,
> >
> > > > > > >> >> Paul
> >
> > > > > > >> >http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm
> >
> > > > > > >> > Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting
> > > > > > >> > list.
> >
> > > > > > >> > You might give the University of California at Davis'
> > > > > > >> > viticulture
> > > > > > >> > department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely
> > > > > > >> > someone
> > > > > > >> > who could or has imported it).
> >
> > > > > > >> > If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best
> > > > > > >> > learn
> > > > > > >> > about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white
> > > > > > >> > grapes
> > > > > > >> > into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch
> > > > > > >> > rot)
> > > > > > >> > that is
> > > > > > >> > responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.
> >
> > > > > > >> Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is
> > > > > > >> shipon,
> > > > > > >> a
> > > > > > >> Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian,
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > >> "sh"
> > > > > > >> sound
> > > > > > >> is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I
> > > > > > >> don't
> > > > > > >> have
> > > > > > >> that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to be
> > > > > > >> available
> > > > > > >> everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't
> > > > > > >> imported
> > > > > > >> anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.
> >
> > > > > > >> Paul
> >
> > > > > > > Does it have a varietal flavor or is it the structure
> > > > > > > (fruitiness,
> > > > > > > mouth
> > > > > > > feel, tannins, ect.) of the wine that you like? If it was cheap,
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > have been tank fermented (either a lined concret tank or
> > > > > > > stainless).
> > > > > > > If
> > > > > > > the weather is anything like Germany, the wines may be 6% to 11%
> > > > > > > alcohol. I consider that consumer friendly. What did the one you
> > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > taste like?
> >
> > > > > > After 30 years, I remember it as having spicy tones and being very
> > > > > > crisp,
> > > > > > somewhat Gewurztraminer-ish. It was my favorite of the Slovenian
> > > > > > varieties.
> > > > > > I picked up some more recent descriptions on the Web:
> >
> > > > > > "It has a lively, fruity, almost peppery nose with some grapey
> > > > > > depth to
> > > > > > it.
> > > > > > The palate is really lively and fresh, with an exuberant fruity,
> > > > > > spicy
> > > > > > character and a hint of spritz on the bright, acidic finish. This
> > > > > > is a
> > > > > > very
> > > > > > pure, clean, minerally white that's full flavoured but zippy, and
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > be a
> > > > > > versatile food wine. "
> >
> > > > > > "The specialty of the area is Sipon: the must can achieve an
> > > > > > outstanding
> > > > > > content of aromatic oils and sugar, while the acids are less
> > > > > > aggressive."
> >
> > > > > > I ordered the last seven bottles of Sipon in stock at Zachys in
> > > > > > Scarsdale,
> > > > > > NY, yesterday. They may be the last seven bottles in the U.S. I'll
> > > > > > post
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > review when they arrive.
> >
> > > > > > Paul
> >
> > > > > You could check with Cornell too but Traminette grows well here in
> > > > > the
> > > > > Northeast and sounds very similar. It's my favorite local white.
> >
> > > > > Joe
> >
> > > > Traminette is a European hybrid (Joannes Seyve 23.416 x
> > > > 'Gewürztraminer). It will be less good than a good gewürztraminer,
> > > > which
> > > > can be exceptional, with distinctive aromas of rose oil.
> >
> > > > I suspect that furmint is more like a good pinot grigio.
> > > > --
> >
> > > > Billy
> > > > Bush and Pelosi Behind
> > > > Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www
> > > > .you
> > > > tube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > > > - Show quoted text -
> >
> > > I make all of those from Northeastern US grapes and the Traminette is
> > > by far the best when it comes to nose and spice notes. I get most of
> > > this from near Fredonia which isn't too awful far from Cleveland. The
> > > seller (Walkers) does buy in grapes from all over the northeast but
> > > these are grown locally as I understand it. The Pinot Grigio could be
> > > overcropped but all I can tell you is it wasn't even on a par with a
> > > well made Chenin Blanc, it's just mediocre, not bad, not good. The
> > > Gewurz has a very pronounce grapefruit note that I really don't care
> > > for. The Traminette has come out like a nice Gewurz each time I made
> > > it. I make these dry so they show the flaws. I may blend the Gewurz
> > > or sweeten it to see how that turns out. I gave up on the pinot
> > > grigio last year...
> >
> > > Once you plant it takes a couple years to see where things end up,I
> > > was just speaking to the local region, not the variety in general.
> >
> > > Joe
> >
> > Great fun Joe. It has always amazed me how easy wine is to make.
> > You fermenting in 5 gal glass bottles or barrels? Used to be that white
> > grapes were ready at 21 to 23 brix and reds at 22 to 24 and a total acid
> > of about .7% but these days everybody is making wine for Robert Parker
> > which means soft, high alcohol wines that are picked at 24 to 28 brix.
> > This is a good time of year to have a cellar full of cool white wine.
> > It's a 101F outside as I type. It's no good for grapes, all they can do
> > in this heat is pump water for evaporative cooling. No energy for
> > ripening grapes.
> >
> > To your health.
> > --
> >
> > Billy
> > Bush and Pelosi Behind
> > Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www.you
> > tube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related
>
> Billy,
> I use carboys and demijohns and usually ferment with heavy toast oak
> chips or cubes. I don't understand the higher alcohol trend, balance
> is balance. I have never made a wine over 14% ABV that didn't taste
> hot; I just don't care for them. I have had a nice old vine Zin that
> high but I didn't make it, my grapes aren't of that caliber.
>
> Joe

I agree. Higher grape sugars make for nice sipping wines but 21% to 24%
make for better table wines, IMHO.

Harvest for sparkling wines will start in about a month here. Better
start cleaning your equipment ;-)
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related