FoodBanter.com - View Single Post

Paul E. Lehmann

wrote:

> I live about 50 miles north of NYC and grow
> mostly Chambourcin. I have many other varieties
> which are not producing yet. BTW, I did fing
> some web site that said clusters can grow on
> laterals. I stand corrected. I've never seen it
> , and I've grown/growing many different grapes.
> What cultivars grow grapes on laterals? What are
> you growing?
>
> Bob

I am growing Merlot, Cabernet Franc and Cabernet
Sauvignon. At one time I grew Chambourcin but I
did not like the wine and I am still not crazy
about it - even wine from other growers. I have
heard that one of the tricks is to let it hang -
a LONG time. Around here,(Central Maryland -
Northern Virginia) some of the wineries are
blending it with Tannat or other varieties. It
does generally have good color.

>
>
> On Jun 28, 7:14 am, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> > wrote:
>> wrote:
>> > Paul,
>>
>> > I think we have a terminology disagreement. I
>> > don't think it's physiologically possible for
>> > laterals to have grapes. I think grape
>> > clusters are already formed in the bud before
>> > the bud even breaks. The vine doesn't just
>> > create them on the fly. I thinkl you may be
>> > talking about secondary and tertiary buds
>> > that would break from the area close to where
>> > the primary bud is.
>>
>> No, I am not talking about secondary and
>> tertiary
>> buds. If you ever get a chance to come to the
>> Mid Atlantic area, I can show you clusters on
>> laterals.
>>
>> > Those are not laterals. Laterals are formed
>> > from green tissue.IOW, the growing shoot.
>>
>> I know what laterals are.
>>
>> > As far as
>> > environment is concerned, if you saw how dry
>> > a sandy soil can be no matter how much rain
>> > falls you would be amazed. Well drained soil
>> > doesn't hold any water therefore there is no
>> > moisture to create humidity from water held
>> > in a soil like clay.
>>
>> > Bob
>>
>> If you lived in the East, you would get a close
>> and personal experience with Humidity -
>> regardless of soil type.
>>
>> Where do you live? What are you growing?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > .On Jun 27, 8:26 pm, "Paul E. Lehmann"
>> > > wrote:
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Mike,
>>
>> >> > One more thought. When grapes grow, they
>> >> > usually shoot laterals close to the
>> >> > fruiting area after bloom to aid in
>> >> > ripining. Those are the laterals that you
>> >> > should keep.
>>
>> >> So, are you saying to keep the fruit from
>> >> the laterals and cluster thin the clusters
>> >> from the
>> >> main shoot to provide even ripening? This
>> >> does
>> >> not make sense to me. Please explain.
>>
>> >> > Hedge the
>> >> > vine about 4 feet from the base of the
>> >> > shoot and hedge off any laterals that form
>> >> > from those hedges.
>>
>> >> Those are the laterals that are going to
>> >> provide
>> >> the carbohydrates to ripen your fruit. Are
>> >> you sure you want to remove all of them?
>>
>> >> > If the laterals formed by the vine close
>> >> > to the fruiting area get to long, hedge
>> >> > them but dont cut them off totally. Maybe
>> >> > leave 2
>> >> > feet on each lateral
>>
>> >> References appreciated, please.
>>
>> >> > , there should be 2, and
>> >> > hedge off all other laterals formed
>> >> > because of the hedging below( I'm assuning
>> >> > high cordon).
>> >> > In a well drained soil you would have
>> >> > these problems but it is what
>> >> > it is and we have to deal with what we're
>> >> > dealt.
>>
>> >> Please provide location and varieties you
>> >> are growing.
>>
>> >> > Bob
>>
>> >> > On Jun 23, 8:03 pm, Mike McGeough
>> >> > > wrote:
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > I agree with evrything Lon said.
>> >> >> > Laterals are grown by the vine to help
>> >> >> > it ripen the grapes. Pruning them off
>> >> >> > is not the right thing.
>>
>> >> >> Bob:
>>
>> >> >> I've got to disagree here. My experience
>> >> >> in the rainy Northeast US is that leaving
>> >> >> the laterals on my FA hybrids, on my
>> >> >> high-vigor site is a recipe for dense,
>> >> >> impenetrable growth , fungus problems,
>> >> >> and undrerripe fruit. My site gets 55 to
>> >> >> 60 inches of rain, has some tall
>> >> >> surrounding trees, and is crossed by
>> >> >> several springs & streams. Humidity is
>> >> >> high from now til the Fall, and then we
>> >> >> get hurricanes. If I didn't pinch the
>> >> >> laterals, basal leaf strip, AND hedge the
>> >> >> 6' canes as they reach the ground, I'd
>> >> >> get a poor crop this year and a really
>> >> >> sparse one next year.
>>
>> >> >> Wanna know how I know this? Well, let's
>> >> >> just say I too read Dr Smart's "Sunlight
>> >> >> into Wine". What works in Australia & New
>> >> >> Zealand Emphatically doesn't work around
>> >> >> here. It took a few years to experiment
>> >> >> with and recover from his advice.
>>
>> >> >> I do agree that basal leaf pulling seems
>> >> >> to have little effect on taste,
>> >> >> but we need to do it to air out the
>> >> >> canopy. Besides, those leaves
>> >> >> don't feed the berries anyway.
>>
>> >> >> To Paul:
>>
>> >> >> It's my understanding that leaving the
>> >> >> laterals results in a lot of vegetative
>> >> >> growth, and a higher percentage of very
>> >> >> young leaves, in almost a geometric
>> >> >> progression. The problem is that the new
>> >> >> leaves don't become net exporters of
>> >> >> carbohydrates until about 3 1/2 to 4
>> >> >> weeks of age. If there are a lot of
>> >> >> laterals, they seem to shade out the
>> >> >> middle-aged, carb exporting leaves deeper
>> >> >> in the canopy, and the fruit has delayed
>> >> >> or incomplete ripening. Maybe it would be
>> >> >> different in a sunnier, drier
>> >> >> climate.This is another counter-intuitive
>> >> >> lesson that I learned the hard way. I now
>> >> >> remove all laterals and non-fruiting
>> >> >> canes.
>>
>> >> >> To Michael:
>>
>> >> >> My main method of dealing with my
>> >> >> enthusiastically growing vines is to
>> >> >> train them in the Sylvoz or High Curtain
>> >> >> system, with a single wire at about 6'
>> >> >> and two movable catch wires. Cordons run
>> >> >> left & right on the wire, and canes are
>> >> >> swept under the catch wires, which are
>> >> >> gradually lowered until the canes hang
>> >> >> down. This really devigorates most
>> >> >> varieties and keeps the fruit at an easy
>> >> >> picking height, and well above soil
>> >> >> splashed fungi & spores, something you
>> >> >> probably need to consider too. It also
>> >> >> makes it easier to cover the rows with
>> >> >> bird netting. When the canes make it to
>> >> >> the ground, they automatically get hedged
>> >> >> when I mow the grassy aisles.
>>
>> >> >> I hope you can find some of these ideas
>> >> >> useful
>>
>> >> >> Great discussion, guys.
>>
>> >> >> Mike
>>
>> >> >> Mike MTM, Cokesbury, NJ, USA
>>
>> >> >> Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet
>> >> >> Newsgroup Services
>>
>>
----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> >> >> http://www.usenet.com
>>
>> > Paul,