Paul,
I think we have a terminology disagreement. I don't think it's
physiologically possible for laterals to have grapes. I think grape
clusters are already formed in the bud before the bud even breaks. The
vine doesn't just create them on the fly. I thinkl you may be talking
about secondary and tertiary buds that would break from the area close
to where the primary bud is. Those are not laterals. Laterals are
formed from green tissue.IOW, the growing shoot. As far as environment
is concerned, if you saw how dry a sandy soil can be no matter how
much rain falls you would be amazed. Well drained soil doesn't hold
any water therefore there is no moisture to create humidity from water
held in a soil like clay.
Bob
..On Jun 27, 8:26 pm, "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
> wrote:
> > Mike,
>
> > One more thought. When grapes grow, they
> > usually shoot laterals close to the fruiting
> > area after bloom to aid in ripining. Those are
> > the laterals that you should keep.
>
> So, are you saying to keep the fruit from the
> laterals and cluster thin the clusters from the
> main shoot to provide even ripening? This does
> not make sense to me. Please explain.
>
> > Hedge the
> > vine about 4 feet from the base of the shoot and
> > hedge off any laterals that form from those
> > hedges.
>
> Those are the laterals that are going to provide
> the carbohydrates to ripen your fruit. Are you
> sure you want to remove all of them?
>
> > If the laterals formed by the vine close
> > to the fruiting area get to long, hedge them but
> > dont cut them off totally. Maybe leave 2
> > feet on each lateral
>
> References appreciated, please.
>
> > , there should be 2, and
> > hedge off all other laterals formed because of
> > the hedging below( I'm assuning high cordon).
> > In a well drained soil you would have these
> > problems but it is what
> > it is and we have to deal with what we're dealt.
> > 
>
> Please provide location and varieties you are
> growing.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Bob
>
> > On Jun 23, 8:03 pm, Mike McGeough
> > > wrote:
> >> wrote:
> >> > I agree with evrything Lon said. Laterals are
> >> > grown by the vine to help it ripen the
> >> > grapes. Pruning them off is not the right
> >> > thing.
>
> >> Bob:
>
> >> I've got to disagree here. My experience in the
> >> rainy Northeast US is that leaving the laterals
> >> on my FA hybrids, on my high-vigor site is a
> >> recipe for dense, impenetrable growth , fungus
> >> problems, and undrerripe fruit. My site gets 55
> >> to 60 inches of rain, has some tall surrounding
> >> trees, and is crossed by several springs &
> >> streams. Humidity is high from now til the
> >> Fall, and then we get hurricanes. If I didn't
> >> pinch the laterals, basal leaf strip, AND hedge
> >> the 6' canes as they reach the ground, I'd get
> >> a poor crop this year and a really sparse one
> >> next year.
>
> >> Wanna know how I know this? Well, let's just
> >> say I too read Dr Smart's "Sunlight into Wine".
> >> What works in Australia & New Zealand
> >> Emphatically doesn't work around here. It took
> >> a few years to experiment with and recover from
> >> his advice.
>
> >> I do agree that basal leaf pulling seems to
> >> have little effect on taste,
> >> but we need to do it to air out the canopy.
> >> Besides, those leaves
> >> don't feed the berries anyway.
>
> >> To Paul:
>
> >> It's my understanding that leaving the laterals
> >> results in a lot of vegetative growth, and a
> >> higher percentage of very young leaves, in
> >> almost a geometric progression. The problem is
> >> that the new leaves don't become net exporters
> >> of carbohydrates until about 3 1/2 to 4 weeks
> >> of age. If there are a lot of laterals, they
> >> seem to shade out the middle-aged, carb
> >> exporting leaves deeper in the canopy, and the
> >> fruit has delayed or incomplete ripening. Maybe
> >> it would be different in a sunnier, drier
> >> climate.This is another counter-intuitive
> >> lesson that I learned the hard way. I now
> >> remove all laterals and non-fruiting canes.
>
> >> To Michael:
>
> >> My main method of dealing with my
> >> enthusiastically growing vines is to train them
> >> in the Sylvoz or High Curtain system, with a
> >> single wire at about 6' and two movable catch
> >> wires. Cordons run left & right on the wire,
> >> and canes are swept under the catch wires,
> >> which are gradually lowered until the canes
> >> hang down. This really devigorates most
> >> varieties and keeps the fruit at an easy
> >> picking height, and well above soil splashed
> >> fungi & spores, something you probably need to
> >> consider too. It also makes it easier to cover
> >> the rows with bird netting. When the canes make
> >> it to the ground, they automatically get hedged
> >> when I mow the grassy aisles.
>
> >> I hope you can find some of these ideas useful
>
> >> Great discussion, guys.
>
> >> Mike
>
> >> Mike MTM, Cokesbury, NJ, USA
>
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Paul,