"Laterals produce grapes. "

No they don't . Not sure what part of the vine you think is a lateral
but laterals don't produce grapes..

Mike:

It sounds like you are growing grapes in soil too wet for optimal
grape growing. In that case I guess you have no choice. I am lucky t
have a well drained sandy soil where excessive moisture is never the
problem. Not sure if the canopy is your only problem when it comes to
fungus, your environment seems to be just as guilty in causing fungus
problems. I would keep the grass short so it doesn't trap moisture
under the long grass.

Bob

On Jun 23, 8:45 pm, "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
> Mike McGeough wrote:
> > wrote:
> >> I agree with evrything Lon said. Laterals are
> >> grown by the vine to help it ripen the grapes.
> >> Pruning them off is not the right thing.
>
> Nature really does not really give a flip whether
> the grapes are "ripe" in terms of winemaking
> "ripeness". Nature's only motive is perpetuation
> of the species. Laterals produce grapes. More
> grapes mean more food for birds and a greater
> chance for a few seeds to survive after the birds
> eat the grapes and "dispose" of the seeds and
> help spread the species.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Bob:
>
> > I've got to disagree here. My experience in the
> > rainy Northeast US is that leaving the laterals
> > on my FA hybrids, on my high-vigor site is a
> > recipe for dense, impenetrable growth , fungus
> > problems, and undrerripe fruit. My site gets 55
> > to 60 inches of rain, has some tall surrounding
> > trees, and is crossed by several springs &
> > streams. Humidity is high from now til the Fall,
> > and then we get hurricanes. If I didn't pinch
> > the laterals, basal leaf strip, AND hedge the 6'
> > canes as they reach the ground, I'd get a poor
> > crop this year and a really sparse one next
> > year.
>
> > Wanna know how I know this? Well, let's just say
> > I too read Dr Smart's "Sunlight into Wine". What
> > works in Australia & New Zealand Emphatically
> > doesn't work around here. It took a few years to
> > experiment with and recover from his advice.
>
> > I do agree that basal leaf pulling seems to have
> > little effect on taste,
> > but we need to do it to air out the canopy.
> > Besides, those leaves
> > don't feed the berries anyway.
>
> > To Paul:
>
> > It's my understanding that leaving the laterals
> > results in a lot of vegetative growth,
>
> and results in vegetative character to the wine.
>
> > and a
> > higher percentage of very young leaves, in
> > almost a geometric progression. The problem is
> > that the new leaves don't become net exporters
> > of carbohydrates until about 3 1/2 to 4 weeks of
> > age.
>
> I agree totally and this is why I think timing of
> hedging is important. Hedging will promote
> lateral growth so it is important that it is done
> before ripening commences and give a chance for
> the new leaves to be exporters.
>
> If I did not hedge, my shoots would be 20+ feet
> long. I have not heard anyone say what should be
> done with 20 long shoots - except hedge them.
>
> Yes, I have heard that forcing downward growth of
> the shoots can help de-vigor vines. It also is
> suppose to help prevent deer damage.
>
> I tried the "Lyre" trellising to help de-vigor the
> vines but man, talk about a jungle. I had a
> micro climate in the vineyard similar to that of
> a jungle because that is what it was. Keeping
> the middle free of shoots and laterals was VERY
> labor extensive - even for a small backyard
> vineyard.
>
> What you effectively end up with using your
> trellising system is 6 foot long shoots which is
> not unreasonable. There has been some research
> done that indicates that 4 feet is about the
> ideal length but I think that most of this
> research was done in California where drip
> irrigation can "IV" the vines to control vigor.
>
> > If there are a lot of laterals, they seem
> > to shade out the middle-aged, carb exporting
> > leaves deeper in the canopy, and the fruit has
> > delayed or incomplete ripening.
>
> Very true.
>
> > Maybe it would
> > be different in a sunnier, drier climate.This is
> > another counter-intuitive lesson that I learned
> > the hard way. I now remove all laterals and
> > non-fruiting canes.
>
> Me too. That is one of the advantages of cane
> pruning in my opinion; it GREATLY reduces the
> number of non-fruiting canes. It makes it easier
> to maintain the vineyard.
>
>
>
>
>
> > To Michael:
>
> > My main method of dealing with my
> > enthusiastically growing vines is to train them
> > in the Sylvoz or High Curtain system, with a
> > single wire at about 6' and two movable catch
> > wires. Cordons run left & right on the wire, and
> > canes are swept under the catch wires, which are
> > gradually lowered until the canes hang down.
> > This really devigorates most varieties and keeps
> > the fruit at an easy picking height, and well
> > above soil splashed fungi & spores, something
> > you probably need to consider too. It also makes
> > it easier to cover the rows with bird netting.
> > When the canes make it to the ground, they
> > automatically get hedged when I mow the grassy
> > aisles.
>
> > I hope you can find some of these ideas useful
>
> > Great discussion, guys.
>
> > Mike
>
> > Mike MTM, Cokesbury, NJ, USA
>
> Thanks for your input, Mike.
>
>
>
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