Mike McGeough wrote:
> wrote:
>> I agree with evrything Lon said. Laterals are
>> grown by the vine to help it ripen the grapes.
>> Pruning them off is not the right thing.
Nature really does not really give a flip whether
the grapes are "ripe" in terms of winemaking
"ripeness". Nature's only motive is perpetuation
of the species. Laterals produce grapes. More
grapes mean more food for birds and a greater
chance for a few seeds to survive after the birds
eat the grapes and "dispose" of the seeds and
help spread the species.
>
> Bob:
>
> I've got to disagree here. My experience in the
> rainy Northeast US is that leaving the laterals
> on my FA hybrids, on my high-vigor site is a
> recipe for dense, impenetrable growth , fungus
> problems, and undrerripe fruit. My site gets 55
> to 60 inches of rain, has some tall surrounding
> trees, and is crossed by several springs &
> streams. Humidity is high from now til the Fall,
> and then we get hurricanes. If I didn't pinch
> the laterals, basal leaf strip, AND hedge the 6'
> canes as they reach the ground, I'd get a poor
> crop this year and a really sparse one next
> year.
>
> Wanna know how I know this? Well, let's just say
> I too read Dr Smart's "Sunlight into Wine". What
> works in Australia & New Zealand Emphatically
> doesn't work around here. It took a few years to
> experiment with and recover from his advice.
>
> I do agree that basal leaf pulling seems to have
> little effect on taste,
> but we need to do it to air out the canopy.
> Besides, those leaves
> don't feed the berries anyway.
>
>
> To Paul:
>
> It's my understanding that leaving the laterals
> results in a lot of vegetative growth,
and results in vegetative character to the wine.
> and a
> higher percentage of very young leaves, in
> almost a geometric progression. The problem is
> that the new leaves don't become net exporters
> of carbohydrates until about 3 1/2 to 4 weeks of
> age.
I agree totally and this is why I think timing of
hedging is important. Hedging will promote
lateral growth so it is important that it is done
before ripening commences and give a chance for
the new leaves to be exporters.
If I did not hedge, my shoots would be 20+ feet
long. I have not heard anyone say what should be
done with 20 long shoots - except hedge them.
Yes, I have heard that forcing downward growth of
the shoots can help de-vigor vines. It also is
suppose to help prevent deer damage.
I tried the "Lyre" trellising to help de-vigor the
vines but man, talk about a jungle. I had a
micro climate in the vineyard similar to that of
a jungle because that is what it was. Keeping
the middle free of shoots and laterals was VERY
labor extensive - even for a small backyard
vineyard.
What you effectively end up with using your
trellising system is 6 foot long shoots which is
not unreasonable. There has been some research
done that indicates that 4 feet is about the
ideal length but I think that most of this
research was done in California where drip
irrigation can "IV" the vines to control vigor.
> If there are a lot of laterals, they seem
> to shade out the middle-aged, carb exporting
> leaves deeper in the canopy, and the fruit has
> delayed or incomplete ripening.
Very true.
> Maybe it would
> be different in a sunnier, drier climate.This is
> another counter-intuitive lesson that I learned
> the hard way. I now remove all laterals and
> non-fruiting canes.
Me too. That is one of the advantages of cane
pruning in my opinion; it GREATLY reduces the
number of non-fruiting canes. It makes it easier
to maintain the vineyard.
>
>
> To Michael:
>
> My main method of dealing with my
> enthusiastically growing vines is to train them
> in the Sylvoz or High Curtain system, with a
> single wire at about 6' and two movable catch
> wires. Cordons run left & right on the wire, and
> canes are swept under the catch wires, which are
> gradually lowered until the canes hang down.
> This really devigorates most varieties and keeps
> the fruit at an easy picking height, and well
> above soil splashed fungi & spores, something
> you probably need to consider too. It also makes
> it easier to cover the rows with bird netting.
> When the canes make it to the ground, they
> automatically get hedged when I mow the grassy
> aisles.
>
> I hope you can find some of these ideas useful
>
> Great discussion, guys.
>
> Mike
>
>
> Mike MTM, Cokesbury, NJ, USA
Thanks for your input, Mike.
>
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