michael wrote:

> On 20 Jun, 21:19, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> > wrote:
>> Pavel314 wrote:
>>
>> > "michael" >
>> > wrote in message
>>
>>
...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >>I am fairly new to growing my own vines in
>> >>England,and am looking for
>> >> a site to find out some of the details of
>> >> pruning the vines during the summers
>> >> growth.In paticular I wish to know how to
>> >> deal with over vigorous growth,and whether
>> >> to remove side shoots or laterals during the
>> >> summers rapid growth.Cheers michael
>>
>> > Here are a few good sites:
>>
>> >http://www.canr.msu.edu/vanburen/e-1935.htm
>>
>>
>http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/1000/1429.html
>>
>> > I googled "pruning grape vines" and got
>> > 159,000 hits.
>>
>> > Paul
>>
>> I think the OP was asking about "summer"
>> pruning. The references you provided are good
>> but do not address the issue of vigorous growth
>> and what to do about it during the summer -
>> unless I missed something - which is entirely
>> possible in my chronologically advantaged
>> state.
>>
>> We have a similar problem (excessive growth)
>> here in the Mid Atlantic. *This year has seen
>> incredible growth because of the wet spring.
>>
>> My advice for "summer" pruning is to:
>>
>> Hedge the vines so the shoots are about 4 feet
>> long
>>
>> Keep the shoots positioned vertically and not
>> allow to cross over each other
>>
>> Leaf pull in the fruit zone - especially on the
>> eastern side.
>>
>> Leaf pull throughout the canopy until you can
>> "see through it". *This does not mean denuding
>> the vines but merely to the point where you can
>> tell if there is someone standing on the other
>> side of the vine from you - NOT to the point
>> you can identify them :-). *This will allow air
>> circulation which is needed in areas of
>> excessive vigor.
>>
>> All this information came from the Maryland
>> Grape Growers Association (MGGA) summer field
>> education program at a local vineyard and
>> winery and was presented by several
>> viticulturalist from Maryland and out of state.
>>
>> One additonal thing worth mentioning for
>> vigorous growth areas:
>>
>> Consider cane pruning instead of cordon spur
>> pruning. *Cane pruning greatly diminishes "old"
>> wood. *The only "old" wood is the trunk(s).
>> Old wood provides a home for fungi. *Vineyards
>> around here that have gone to cane pruning have
>> experienced a lot less problem with fungus. *It
>> is also a LOT easier to maintain the vines
>> since you do not have a lot of shoots from old
>> wood (which are non-productive) to prune away.
>> I have gone to cane pruning this year and I am
>> very pleased with the results.
>>
>> There has always been a lot of controversy
>> about vine and row spacing but some of the new
>> plantings around here are going to 4 feet
>> between vines and 7 foot row spacing. *They are
>> aiming for 12 buds per vine. *This will
>> typically work out to a yield of about 3 tons
>> per acre or a little more depending on variety.
>> This is a good crop load around here for
>> producing quality wines.
>>
>> the other Paul- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Thanks for your replies.I am always tempted to
> prune the strong growth canes in early
> summer,but resist it,since the side growths then
> go mad creating another pruning problem.

Yep, that is the problem with hedging. It does
promote lateral growth and these have to be
controlled. A point of interest though; leaves
reach their maximum efficiency after about 60 to
90 days. Most of the photosynthesis comes from
the new and younger leaves. Around here we have
a problem with Japanese beatles starting around
July. I think it is important to keep them under
control as they eat the young shoot tips and this
is were most of the energy for the plant is
coming from


> I have a
> Double Guyot trellis system,with the bottom
> wires at about 18",then two double wires and
> finally the top wire at about 5' 6".So your
> suggested 4' canes correspond to my top wire.My
> reference book suggests pruning back to the top
> wire in early August(i.e.4' canes),but my vines
> seem to reach
> the top wire by mid June!

Yep, I had to hedge last two weeks ago. Last year
I let some of my shoots grow just to see how long
they would get. They got to over 20 feet in
length by fall.

> If I prune them back
> then,then side growths take over,so I tend to
> leave them until they get very long. I do remove
> leaves in the lower part of the trellis (not
> completely of course) at all times during the
> summer,to give good air penetration,good spray
> coverage(mainly wettable sulphur for powdery
> mildew) and later,warmth for grape
> ripening.Because of the vigour of my vines (and
> I am on a sloping south facing site on thin
> limestone very dry soil),I do not use any
> fertiliser,except the occasional wood ash for
> the potash and a seaweed spray to help the grape
> set.

Grapes don't need much in the way of fertilizer -
around here that is. Some have used Nitrogen
with disastrous effects - talk about a jungle!!!

You may want to check your potassium level. Too
much can give you a real high pH wine. Around
here we have agricultural extension services
which can do leaf petiole analysis. The best
time for analysis is either at bloom using the
petioles across from the flower clusters or at
verasion using the petioles from the fully
developed leaves high up in the canopy. I did
not know this until last week and had been
waiting until verasion and using the petioles in
the fruit zone.

> This early season in England is quite cool
> (18-20 degrees),but not wet.The grapes were
> planted about 5 years ago,and seem to be getting
> more vigorous each year-the roots must be
> finding something in the soil they like,but my
> experience when digging is that below about 1
> foot the soil become very stony-our cottage is
> called Rock Cottage for good reason! I would
> welcome further advice,and thanks
> again.Cheers,Michael

Ok - I will pass along anything I learn and please
do the same for me.

Paul