"ta" > wrote in message . ..
>
> "Aaron" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "Michael Balarama" > wrote in message
> >...
> > > "ta" > wrote in message
> > > .. .
> > > >
> > > > "Michael Balarama" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > "usual suspect" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > ta wrote:
> > > > > > > Is there any reason a proper, healthy vegan diet cannot supply all
> > > > > > > of the necessary vitamins and minerals without supplementing?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A lot of planning would have to go into such a diet to assure getting
> > > > > > the proper RDA of vitamins and minerals. One would especially have to
> > > > > > pay attention to zinc, iron, and B-12. In the real world,
> > > > > > supplementation *is* necessary since most veg-ns don't pay attention to
> > > > > > what they eat except to make sure their food has no animal parts.
> > > > >
> > > > > because of the mass farming, pollution and stuff-there are not all the
> > > > > vitamins we need in the vegetables and fruit..it is a good idea to
> > > > > supplement...
> > > >
> > > > Michael, you hit on a key secondary question that I was hoping to address
> > > > as well. That is, to what extent, if any, has the quality of human food
> > > > degraded to the point where supplementing is necessary? Naturally (no pun
> > > > intended) human beings didn't always have vitamin pills, nor did they
> > > > probably need them. In other words, shouldn't we be able to get absolutely
> > > > everything we need from the food we eat, and if not, why not? You hit on a
> > > > couple of reasons, but if you have any specific sources on that, I'd
> > > > appreciate it.
> > >
> > > This might hlep-Eric the Programming director at our TV station-is a
> > > vegan...
> > > I asked him for help...
> > > From what I was taught, you are correct, the soil is depleted of nutrients
> > > due to innappropriate commercial use of land. Also, we thoroughly wash the
> > > fruits and veggies, which counteracts us getting the bacteria we need that
> > > produces B12 in our colons. I don't have specific sources, but I would
> > > start him off on Dr. Schulze's stuff. As for books, tell him to look up
> > > Herbert Shelton (a pioneer in natural hygiene movement in america.
> > >
> > > Eric
Nature 1980 Feb 21;283(5749):781-2Related Articles, Links
Vitamin B12 synthesis by human small intestinal bacteria.
Albert MJ, Mathan VI, Baker SJ.
In man, physiological amounts of vitamin B12 (cyanocobalamin) are
absorbed by the intrinsic factor mediated mechanism exclusively in
the ileum. Human faeces contain appreciable quantities of vitamin
B12 or vitamin B12-like material presumably produced by bacteria
in the colon, but this is unavailable to the non-coprophagic individual.
However, the human small intestine also often harbours a considerable
microflora and this is even more extensive in apparently healthy
southern Indian subjects. We now show that at least two groups
of organisms in the small bowel, Pseudomonas and Klebsiella sp.,
may synthesise significant amounts of the vitamin.
PMID: 7354869 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://tinyurl.com/80o6
From; The Bacterial Flora of Humans
(8) While E. coli is a consistent resident of the small intestine,
many other enteric bacteria may reside here as well, including
Klebsiella, Enterobacter and Citrobacter.
1. The normal flora synthesize and excrete vitamins in excess
of their own needs, which can be absorbed as nutrients by the host.
For example, enteric bacteria secrete Vitamin K and Vitamin B12,
and lactic acid bacteria produce certain B-vitamins.
http://www.bact.wisc.edu/Bact303/Bact303normalflora
(Antibiotics
Antibiotics of all classes disrupt normal bowel flora which
synthesize some B vitamins and Vitamin K; probiotic
supplementation needed.
Oral Contraceptives
Deplete, especially B1, B6, B12, folate.
http://www.interactionreport.org/depletion.html )
A course of human multi-strain probiotics will remedy prior disruption.
Organically grown plant foods contain higher quantities of nutrients,
including vitamin B12, - it's taken up from soil rich in B12 (w/ cobalt).
(Mozafar, A. 1994. Enrichment of some B-vitamins in plants with
application of organic fertilizers. Plant and Soil 167:305-311.
http://tinyurl.com/6onc ).
The B12-Cobalt Connection
...
The implication for humans subsisting on vegetarian diets are profound.
B12 synthesis by indigenous bacteria is known to occur naturally in the
human small intestine, primary site of B12 absorption. As long as gut
bacteria have cobalt and certain other nutrients, they produce B12. In
principle then, internal B12 synthesis could fulfill our needs without any
B12 provided by diet.
...
The emerging nutritional crisis of B12 deficiency calls for remedial action in
the macro- as well as micro-environment. Broad-spectrum remineralization
of topsoils using crushed rock or dried seaweed from ocean areas known
to contain sufficient cobalt can reestablish mineral balances necessary for
healthy food supply able to fulfill our requirement, both direct and indirect,
for B12 . The cobalt connection is especially relevant to us growing our own
food, since cobalt-deficient areas likely are well-established. Beyond promoting
remineralization to the farm community, we can adopt the practice in our gardens.'
http://www.championtrees.org/topsoil/b12coblt.htm .
> > > > The reason I ask is because it seems entirely "unnatural" to have to take
> > > > supplements. Thanks.
> >
> > This is an interesting discussion to me because I work with a
> > supplement manufacturer that frequently comments about the issue of
> > soil depletion, and why this makes it so important to take supplements
> > (like theirs). I've never been completely clear if that angle is
> > "junk science" for the sake of marketing more product, or if there's a
> > factual basis.
> >
> > I'd be real interested to know if anyone can direct me to independent
> > research that backs this up factually...
> >
> > Aaron
>
> Here's one source I came upon:
>
> http://www.healingwithnutrition.com/s264.html
'The mineral content of organic food - Rutgers University USA
Percentage of | Quantities per 100 Grams | Trace Elements. Parts per million
Dry Weight Dry Weight Dry matter
Vegetable: Mineral Ash Calcium Magnesium Boron Manganese Iron Copper Cobalt
Snap Beans
Organic 10.45 40.5 60 73 60 227 69 0.26
Non-organic 4.04 15.5 14.8 10 2 10 3 0
Cabbage
Organic 10.38 60 43.6 42 13 94 48 0.15
Non-organic 6.12 17.5 13.6 7 2 20 0.4 0
Lettuce
Organic 24.48 71 49.3 37 169 516 60 0.19
Non-organic 7.01 16 13.1 6 1 9 3 0
Tomatoes
Organic 14.2 23 59.2 36 68 1938 53 0.63
Non-organic 6.07 4.5 4.5 3 1 1 0
0
Spinach
Organic 28.56 96 203.9 88 117 1584 32 0.25
Non-organic 12.38 47.5 46.9 12 1 49 0.3 0.2
http://www.organicnutrition.co.uk/wh...whyorganic.htm