"Jay" > wrote in message >

> "limey" wrote in message
(Denise's message snipped for brevity)

> > That cold shortening, icewater, keep everything cold puzzles me, too.
I
> > took Domestic Science in school (same as Home Economics in the US). We
> had
> > no refrigeration so used room-temperature lard, rubbed it into the flour
> > with the tips of our fingers, and then used tap water to bind. It
always
> > came out great. I wonder what method the UK uses now? I also wonder
> what
> > method was used in the US before refrigeration was common?
>
>
> Hi Dora,
>
> Heat also makes it much easier for gluten to form. So if you're not quick
> enough to mix and roll out, room temperature water can seriously toughen
> your dough. Especially if you're using butter. Lard and Veg shortening
will
> stay solid at room temp for much longer than butter. Also, shortenings are
> 100% fat whereas butter is only 85%.
>
> Here in the bakeshop it is fully possible to use tapwater when we are
using
> a vegetable shortening to make a pie dough, but when making pate brisee (a
> purely butter dough), timing and mixing is crucial to the texture. I've
> overmixed several times because the water I added wasn't cold enough. This
> meant that:
>
> 1. My dough had to sit in the fridge for longer before it was workable
> enough to roll out, and even then, I could feel the difference,
>
> and
>
> 2. The butter had completely mixed into the flour and since butter is 15%
> water, it produces even more long gluten strands when you're working the
> dough.
>
>
> When fully baked, a butter crust which has been overmixed will never be as
> delicate as one which is shorter.
>
> JMO,
> -Jay

Thanks, Jay, for your comments, which I can fully understand, especially
about using butter. I was referring to what the UK calls shortcrust
pastry, rubbing lard into the flour with the fingers and working very fast.
Some might use a little butter, but I don't. I find the dough is easy to
mix and rolls out easily, especially when the ingredients aren't absolutely
cold or the pastry ball isn't chilled. Speed is really the key.

A UK flaky pastry uses a method somewhat similar to making puff pastry, and
then a lard/butter mix is used. That often needs chilling before rolling.
As the book says, "The cooler the ingredients and utensils and the lighter
the touch when making, the lighter the pastry."

I suppose we all use the method which works best for us.

Dora