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Jonathan Ball > wrote in message hlink.net>...
> Purple wrote:
>
> > wrote in message >. ..
> >
> >>On 1 Jan 2004 10:59:49 -0800, (Purple) wrote:
> >>
> >>
> wrote in message >. ..
> >>>
> >>>>On Thu, 1 Jan 2004 02:33:12 -0500, "Allyb" > wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Karla, the flaw I see in your reasoning is that to satisfy the demand for
> >>>>>meat and dairy in this country, it's not possible to raise enough animals on
> >>>>>grass.
> >>>>
> >>>> That's not what is being discussed, which I feel sure you are aware of.
> >>>>What is being discussed is why tofu involves more animal deaths than
> >>>>grass raised beef does, and why rice milk involves more animal deaths
> >>>>than grass raised cow milk does. (Rice milk also involves more deaths
> >>>>than soy milk, which involves more deaths than grass raised cow milk...
> >>>>are you unable to understand why?)
> >>>> But since you brought it up, we have no reason to believe that this
> >>>>country could be fed if no farm animals were raised at all, which is what
> >>>>"ARAs" want. Animal products go into fertilizers and many other things
> >>>>that humans--including veg*ns--make much use of:
> >>>
> >>>[snip extensive list of products]
> >>>
> >>>There are vegan alternatives for many, perhaps all of the items you list.
> >
> >
> > [snip list again to save bandwidth]
> >
> >
> >>Please tell us which of the items used in the production of food,
> >>that you can find vegan alternatives for.
> >
> >
> > Most of the items you list aren't even used in the production of food.
>
> You moron: "veganism" is about more than food. The
> stupid rule of "veganism" is: don't consume animal
> products. That means *any* animal products, in
> anything. That means no leather shoes or clothing, no
> wool clothing, no honey, no animal anything.

Yes and by this standard, there are many items on dhld's
list, which have vegan varieties.

> It even
> covers not consuming cosmetic products that were
> *tested* on animals but don't contain animal parts.

I don't think it does but if you have proof I will concede.

> The point of that list is, many things "vegans" consume
> DO contain animal parts,

People who use products that *contain* animal parts are not
vegan by defintion.

> and/or were tested on animals.
> "vegans" can't even get close to following their
> rule; they follow a few limited, purely symbolic bits
> of it.