"rick etter" > wrote in message >...
> "Purple" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "rick etter" > wrote in message
> >...
> > > "Purple" > wrote in message
> > > om...
> > > > wrote in message
> >. ..
> > > > > On Thu, 1 Jan 2004 02:33:12 -0500, "Allyb" > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >Karla, the flaw I see in your reasoning is that to satisfy the
> demand
> for
> > > > > >meat and dairy in this country, it's not possible to raise enough
> animals on
> > > > > >grass.
> > > > >
> > > > > That's not what is being discussed, which I feel sure you are
> aware
> of.
> > > > > What is being discussed is why tofu involves more animal deaths than
> > > > > grass raised beef does, and why rice milk involves more animal
> deaths
> > > > > than grass raised cow milk does. (Rice milk also involves more
> deaths
> > > > > than soy milk, which involves more deaths than grass raised cow
> milk...
> > > > > are you unable to understand why?)
> > > > > But since you brought it up, we have no reason to believe that
> this
> > > > > country could be fed if no farm animals were raised at all, which is
> what
> > > > > "ARAs" want. Animal products go into fertilizers and many other
> things
> > > > > that humans--including veg*ns--make much use of:
> > > >
> > > > [snip extensive list of products]
> > > >
> > > > There are vegan alternatives for many, perhaps all of the items you
> list.
> > > ================
> > > LOL And you really think they are made without the death and suffering
> of
> > > animals? What a hoot!
> >
> > No but the claim that veganism requires it's followers to avoid, eg
> toothpaste
> > is verifiably false.
> ==================
> Then you lied, because there is no truely vegan alternative to any of those
> products when mass produced for a consumer-driven convenience-oriented
> society. That the end product may not *contain* animal bits does not mean
> that many animals did not die to produce it. Veganism isn't just about not
> eating animals, it's suppose to be about not killing them. Of course that's
> a false premise for any vegan here on usenet though.
Veganism means not directly and intentionally killing animals
colateral deaths, however predictable, are compatible with
veganism. You know this so why do you accuse me of lying when
I state that it is possible to buy vegan toothpastes?