"Keynes" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 02:25:22 GMT, "Rubystars" >
wrote:
>
> >
> >"Jonathan Ball" > wrote in message
> hlink.net...
> >> Rubystars wrote:
> >>
> >> > "Jonathan Ball" > wrote in message
> >> > ...
> >> >
> >> >>OF COURSE "this country" could be fed without raising any
> >> >>farm animals.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > That would force a lot of people to go on vegan diets though and most
> >> > wouldn't know how to do so properly, even some who do know how to do
the
> >> > right things have to stop.
> >>
> >> They could figure it out. The point is, farm animals
> >> aren't necessary to feed people.
> >
> >At the population we have now, I think they are.
> >
> >If there was a smaller population broken up into villages, etc. then
sure,
> >we wouldn't need farm animals, but we do right now.
> >
> >-Rubystars
>
> It's just customary. Pre WWII folks in the US ate less than half as
> much meat per capita. A political candidate ran on the platform
> of 'a chicken in every pot'. Even meat on sundays was a luxury
> for many (bacon possibly excepted).

Did they go without milk and eggs too?

> Now we have an obesity-diabetes problem that's becoming epidemic.
> There's an indian tribe split by the mexican border. Those on the US side
> are nearly 100% obese and diabetic. Those on the mexican side kept their
> traditional diet and don't even have those problems.

I understand that the Standard American Diet is not good, and is unhealthy
and promotes obesity. I just think that many people would starve from
malnutrition if they were suddenly forced to go vegan. There are vegans who
have done all the right things and still had to quit because of
deficiencies. Then there are others who can live for years and years very
healthy on such a diet.

Forcing an entire population to take that risk would be wrong.

> There's also the problem with the stink and pollution of
> factory farming and the increased likelyhood (near certainty)
> of epidemic e coli and salmonella infections. I don't mention the
> morality of killing animals. Animals kill animals even if we don't.
> All life feeds on other life. Those poor birds, mice, snakes and
> bugs in the fields are eating one another. But if I had to kill animals
> to eat myself, I would only do it in times of direst emergency.

I'm not entirely convinced that factory farming isn't needed to provide the
supply of meat, milk, and eggs that large populations require.

> It takes about nine pounds of feed to make a pound of beef,
> not counting quite a bit of water both for cows and feed.
> (You have to feed a cow for years. That feed is gone away.)

Most cows are "Free range" and "Grass fed." They only go into the feed lots
for finishing.

> Purely grass fed beef would be economical, but feeding them
> is wasteful. Chickens, turkeys and fish have a 2-3 pound feed
> to one pound of meat ratio. Eggs are even more efficient.
> (Unfortunately, livestock is chock full of added hormones
> and antibiotics. That can't be good in the long run.)

The main problem is that we have such a HUGE population to feed, and not a
very large percentage of those people are farmers. So the farms that are
there have to produce a lot in order to feed everyone.

> Most of the US grain goes into feed, with excesses exported to
> feed livestock in other countries. If we ate plants directly we'd have
> a huge surplus (which would be a bit of an economic problem since
> grain is already grown at a loss, requiring subsidies).

The US already has huge surpluses of food.

> Most other countries don't eat as much meat as we do.
> Devout hindus and buddhists eat no meat. Our diet is too
> cheap and calorie rich for our own good. A mosty vegetarian
> diet can be nutritionally balanced and quite delicious.

Are those Hindus and Buddhists vegan, or just vegetarian?

> It's just not in our western culture these days to even think
> about it. I love meat - fatty meat - myself, and eat it often.
> But cuban rice and beans is delicious. South Indian cooking
> is outstanding. Chinese vegetable stews (sometimes flavored
> with a bit of meat) are my specialty. And we often have meat-free
> pasta meals around here. Meat is like candy.
> You can get too much for your own good.

I think vegetarian food is great too, but I just don't think forcing entire
populations to go vegan would be very responsible.

-Rubystars