"Rat & Swan" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Allyb wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > You know, I don't even know a single hard core vegan. If that's what
> > they're like Rick, I hope I never do.
>
> <snip>
> That's not what they're (necessarily) like. I am a vegan, and have
> been a vegetarian for 20 years, and I have known a number of vegans.
> They're people, like other people, and vary tremendously, but most
> are gentle people who try not to harm others and are concerned about
> their impact on the world. Those who oppose killing animals for
> animal rights reasons are often led into rick's trap, but, make no
> mistake, it IS a trap. If one believes animals have moral
> standing which makes it unethical to kill them for food (just like
> people) the argument over which foods kill _more_ is a false one.
> One cannot support a system which deliberately breeds, raises, and
> slaughters animals because it _might_ (no one has proof it does)
> kill fewer. It is the deliberate killing which is unethical. The
> deliberate killing of animals in veggie production is also wrong,
> but it is not a necessary and integral part of raising veggies.
> Vegans suggest we eliminate deliberate killing, and concentrate on
> reforming methods of veggie production to reduce any genuine
> collateral deaths to the minimum.
=======================
ROTFLMAO This from the loon that pulls the skin off a live rodent, and then
drowns it. Yep, sure sounds like compassion to me..


>
> As rick and jon both point out, the individual can try to reduce
> the number of deaths involved in his personal choices. However,
> this is as possible with a vegan or vegetarian diet as with an
> omnivorous one, and, indeed, -- as all the non-vegans here will
> reluctantly admit if pressed -- a vegan diet choosing sources
> carefully will result in a lower collateral death toll.
==================
And if you weren't so dogmatic, you mention that I have said that in the
past. The problem here is that the vegan loons on usenet aren't the ones
doing that. they wouldn't be here in the first place if they really
beleived in ar/veganism. You don't believe in either, so here you are.


>
> So, whether one chooses on the basis of utilitarian or deontological
> ethics, a vegan diet can be more ethical, and if carefully followed,
> must be.
-----------------------
Which none of the so-called vegans here on usenet are following. They prove
their lack of trrue veganism just by posting here on usenet.


>
> Rat
> <snip>
>