"Allyb" > wrote in message
...
> Karla, the flaw
====================
No, the flaw is yours. the 'need' isn't for everyone to be fed the most
'ethical' way, just those loons that claim that they live their lives and
alter *their* diet for the sake of animals. they don't do that of course,
but that's still their claim.

I see in your reasoning is that to satisfy the demand for
> meat and dairy in this country, it's not possible to raise enough animals
on
> grass.
====================
Virtually all cows are raised on grass now. they spend only a small portion
of their lives in feedlots. It would be far easier to feed everyone with
grass fed meats, than any kind of crop production that you determine to be
cruelty-free.


Therefore enormous farms must harvest many times the produce to feed
> cattle than would be needed to feed humans directly.
================================
No stupid, there is no *need* to feed crops to cattle. That's just part of
the vegan religious myths and delusions. But I see you fail, like most
vegans, to place any blame on all the massive crops raised for your selfish
convenience. Why is that?

The cow dies, all the
> little animals in the field (times x) die. I am not a militant vegan, I'm
> not arguing for the sake of it, I'm not even arguing ethics, just straight
> numbers.
==================
Then you lose. Because *you* could make better choices. We aren't talking
about what others choose, just those that claim they 'care'. It's obvious
that you don't, your posting to usenet proves that. But, you could reduce
your bloody footprints with specific kinds of meats. You won't thogh
because you follow only a simple rule for your simple mind, 'eat no meat'.


>
> "Russ Thompson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > I'm not sure how they calculate the numbers, exactly, but they claim
> that
> > a
> > > serving of tofu could involve more animal deaths (from CDs) than one
> > serving
> > > of beef that came from one cow.
> >
> > *** That makes perfect sence to me. A deer that my husband shoots or one
> of
> > our grass fed steers can provide many, many servings with the death of
> only
> > one animal. Harvest an acre of soybeans and you are going to kill many
> more
> > than that.





Here are some sites, with info on specific areas and
pesticides. Animals die.
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...feFactSheet.pd
f




Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/


To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html