Karl Hungus wrote:
> "Rat & Swan" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>
>>Karl Hungus wrote:
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>>Freedom of speech to the Left means freedom of the right *kind* of
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> speech,
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>>>it would seem.
>>
>>That, of course, depends on which individual you are discussing.
>>The Left is no more monolithic than the Right.
>>
>>Rat
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> Yeah? Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
>
> Anyway, I'd like to hear Swan's take on this before I offer my rebuttal.

Swan here. Rat's partner. The terms "left" and "right" are relative on
a continuum. What is hard line left to one person can be interpreted as
hard line right by another. Even in one given individual, political
stances can be all over the map. Take myself, for instance. I am pro
death penalty, pro-choice and favor language requirements in certain
professions. Rat and I do not agree on certain areas, politically, yet
we are both seen as liberals. While socially liberal, I am flatly
against gun control and would favor restrictions on immigration. I
think society has placed TOO much emphasis on "family values" as opposed
to simple "human values" and I'd like to see an end to subsidised
childbearing in *all* strata of society. Rat and I are *not*
"monolithic" and I can say with confidence that the same is true of
conservatives, liberals, everyone. we are *people* first and foremost,
and only an idiot or a lazy person blindly follows a "party line"
without thinking for him or herself.

as for the idea that liberals only tolerate "certain kinds" of freedom
of speech... Hardly. The "right" wants it both ways. "Liberals are so
mushy on values!" "The left wants you to have a mind so open, your
brains fall out!" etc... but then... "The left only allows certain
kinds of speech!"

Well which IS it? Remember, it was a LIBERAL organisation, the ACLU,
that *defended* the right of the American Nazi Party to march in Skokie
Illinois! Are there leftists who won't tolerate true freedom os speech?
Hell, YES! I got whacked with a thrown (full) Coke can thrown by a
radical anti-Nazi protester at a rally once. OW! And the people who had
come to speak were shouted down and driven from the hall. NOT a shining
example of freedom of speech and assembly, that's for damn sure! But
there are more liberals DEFENDING freedom of speech as there are
attacking it. I defend it!

I DESPISE Fred Phelps and his disgusting webpages godhatesfags.com and
godhatesamerica.com and I think he's a pig. But if I heard that someone
was trying to burn down his church, I'd be on the front steps BESIDE
him, defending the place! he has a RIGHT to spew his bile and I have the
SAME right to tell him he's an ass. I do NOT have the right to shut him
up, nor he, me.

The cold hard fact is this: Freedom is damned hard, but it is worth
EVERY drop of blood spilled defending it! It is difficult to have the
moral STRENGTH *not* to shout down and shut down those you think are
wrong. Freedom takes strength, trust, brains, forbearance, courage and
hard work to safeguard. There is a basic truth that freedom CANNOT be
given... it must be taken by force and it must be earned, and
maintained, by hard work. Once lost, it can only be regained by the same
force with which it was once won. Freedom exists for you, me, Michael
Jackson, Oral Roberts, George Bush, Rat, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Tim
LeHay, Fred Phelps, Jane Fonda, PETA, the ACLU, the KKK, AARP, EVERYONE.
But it only exists so long as we have the GUTS to defend it and allow it
for EVERYONE, even the ones we violently disagree with. As a matter of
fact... ESPECIALLY the ones we disagree with.

Swan
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