"Dutch" > wrote in message ...
> "Derek" > wrote
> > "Dutch" > wrote
> > > "Derek" > wrote
> > > > "Bill" > wrote
> > > > >
> > > > > Which "vegans" here on usenet have done *anything*
> > > > > concrete to stop killing them? None.
> > > > >
> > > > Which vegans here on Usenet have done *anything*
> > > > concrete to start killing them? None.
> > > >
> > > > The farmer kills them, so he alone is fully responsible
> > > > for every last one of them.
> > >
> > > The "farmer" is the person who owns the land,
> >
> > Non sequitur.
>
> How so?
>
A non sequitur is an argument where the conclusion is
drawn from premises which aren't logically connected
with it. For example:
"Since Egyptians did so much excavation to construct
the pyramids, they were well versed in paleontology."
Or, in this instance;
"Since landowners allow crops to be grown on their
land, they are farmers of that land and responsible for
the collateral deaths accrued by those who work it."

> > > he seldom does the killing. With larger operations
> > > it's usually an employee that does it.
> >
> > Then he is responsible.
>
> I thought you said it was the farmer.
>
> "he alone is fully responsible for every last one of them."
>
If the landowner works his land, then he is also
the farmer of that land, otherwise he is merely
the owner of it without any responsibility for
how others farm it.

> Now we must look deeper to see who is truly responsible.
>
> If I hire a killer have I done anything unethical? I haven't killed anyone.
>
If you hire a killer, then you are responsible for
the deaths you hire him to cause.

> > Whichever way you look at it,
> > the moral agent who causes the deaths, or demands that
> > they be caused is responsible.
>
> Which is it Derek, the farmer or the farmhand?

Both, if the landowner hires farmers to kill on his
behalf.

> Could it be that it a number
> of people are involved?
> >
> > > I'm a farmer
> >
> > No, you aren't. You're a street sweeper.
>
> I'm a farmer,

No, you aren't a farmer. You are merely a landowner,
if your story is to be believed.

> and I don't demand that animals be killed

Then you aren't responsible for any deaths accrued
by those who farm "your" land.

> I just want wheat to grow on my land and I don't
> want it to cost 10x as much as the wheat is worth.
> The decision to use herbicides is made by the
> government, it's a crime to not use them.
>
No. That's a lie. Farmers are not legally forced to use
cides of any kind. The decision to use them is always
down to the individual who farms the land.