"Jonathan Ball" > wrote in message ink.net...
> Derek wrote:
> > "usual suspect" > wrote in message ...
> >>Derek wrote:
> >>
> >>>>>>>>Animals continue to die because most vegans -- even self-heralded
> >>>>>>>>"ethical" vegans -- refuse to grow their own food on a small enough
> >>>>>>>>scale to prevent animal deaths.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>That's not an honest explanation. They die because
> >>>>>>>farmers cut corners and prefer to use pesticides
> >>>>>>>instead of trying to improve their farming methods
> >>>>>>>and storage facilities. It's cheaper for them and less
> >>>>>>>labour intensive.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Next time you send your poor wife to the store, make sure she buys only
> >>>>>>the most expensive of each available item to ensure farmers are making
> >>>>>>the most money possible so maybe they can afford to stop cutting
> >>>>>>corners, as you say.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>My trade with farmers doesn't include a demand they
> >>>>>cause collateral deaths during the production of veg.
> >>>>
> >>>>Your trade accepts the consequences of farmers' actions
> >>>
> >>>Mine doesn't.
> >>
> ...You are a very indiscriminate consumer. You seek out
> produce on the basis of price rather than humane
> practices.

Turn that 180 degrees and you'll be in the right direction.

> Produce grown humanely is available from
> farmers, and it's alternatively possible to grow your
> own humane produce.

From the position I'm in at the moment, you've got
to be aving a big one! But that's besides the point
because my purchase from farmers doesn't make me
a candidate for blame OR praise. They're welcome
to all the praise due for their own achievements.

> You choose to ignore and avoid the
> more expensive (in money or your personal time) humane
> alternatives. You're the reason the farmers whose
> produce you purchase cut all those moral-ethical
> corners.

[According to Aristotle, a voluntary action or trait has two
distinctive features. First, there is a control condition: the
action or trait must have its origin in the agent. That is, it
must be up to the agent whether to perform that action
or possess the trait -- it cannot be compelled externally]

That being so, my trade with the farmer cannot be viewed
as causal to the deaths he accumulates. It is up to him
whether to perform that action -- I cannot compel him
externally.

> Your stance is meaningless in the face of what
> you do; you are a poseur, and a rank hypocrite.
>
yeah yeah yeah. Who takes moral responsibility for
the collateral deaths accrued during the production
of a bag of spuds which goes to ruin by going past
its sell-by date?