On Feb 24, 7:03*pm, wrote:
> On Feb 18, 1:51*pm, Rudy Canoza > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > All "vegans" begin their belief in "veganism" by
> > subscribing to a logically fallacious argument:
>
> > * * *If I eat meat, I cause harm to animals
>
> > * * *I do not eat meat;
>
> > * * *Therefore, I do not cause harm to animals.
>
> > This argument contains a classic fallacy: *Denying the
> > Antecedent. *It is obvious there are other ways to
> > cause harm to animals. *The one that is much discussed
> > in alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian/talk.politics.animals
> > is collateral animal deaths in agriculture. *Uncounted
> > millions of animals are slaughtered in the course of
> > vegetable agriculture, either unintentionally as a
> > result of mechanized farming, or intentionally by pest
> > control. *Once "vegans" recognize the fact of animal
> > CDs, the fallacy of the argument becomes clear.
>
> > However, we still observe "vegans" spending tremendous
> > time and mental energy trying to get rid of the last
> > trace of animal parts from their diet. *I call this the
> > Search for Micrograms, i.e., micrograms of animal parts
> > in food. *The idea, of course, is to determine if there
> > are any micrograms of animal parts in a food item, and
> > if so, exclude it from their diet.
>
> > Not long ago, in alt.food.vegan, a "vegan" posted a
> > comment to the effect that canned black olives are in a
> > juice that contains octopus ink, to make the juice
> > dark. *She wasn't able to substantiate the rumor - it
> > smacked of a very narrow, "vegan"-oriented urban legend
> > - and none of the other participants seemed especially
> > eager to eliminate canned black olives from their
> > diets. *Nonetheless, it provided an excellent example
> > of the bizarre, obsessive Search for Micrograms.
>
> > Meanwhile, with only rare exceptions, the observation
> > that "vegans" do virtually *nothing* to reduce the
> > animal collateral death toll caused by the production
> > and distribution of the foods they personally eat goes
> > all but unchallenged. *What little challenge is mounted
> > is not credible. *One "vegan" poster in a.a.e.v. and
> > t.p.a., one of the more egregious sophists in the
> > groups, claims that she is doing "all she can" by
> > buying "locally produced" fruit and vegetables - as if
> > the geographic locale of production has anything to do
> > with the care farmers might take to ensure they don't
> > kill animals. *It simply is not credible.
>
> > How, then, to explain the bizarre Search for
> > Micrograms? *It is as if, despite some of them knowing
> > that the original argument is fallacious, "vegans"
> > *still* accept it.
>
> > I think it is pretty much a given that "veganism" is a
> > form of religion. *Although "vegans" prefer to dwell on
> > what they call "ethics", their devotion to the
> > religious injunction - don't eat animals - gives them
> > away. *In that light, the obsessive Search for
> > Micrograms takes on the character of a religious
> > ritual; sort of like performing the stations of the
> > cross, or reciting a prayer 20 or 30 times.
>
> Your entire premise is basically just wrong. I am a vegan and I'd like
> to debate you. But so far you have not made any claim. You only
> contend that "veganism", as defined by you, is based on a fallacious
> argument. It's you against your straw man.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

As someone who is sympathetic to but not convinced by veganism I wish
I could be as convinced that he is simply attacking straw man. I'm
sure the
majority of vegans do care where there vegetables come from but so
many
of them seem to consider avoiding traces of animal products a far
greater
priority than such considerations. I've even heard of vegans who
refuse to eat
off other people's plates lest they have previously been used for
meat, or
arguments about whether giving blow jobs is compatible with vegan
ethics -
I kid you not!

I guess the point is that some (Rudy would probably claim all) vegans
have become
so obsessed with worrying about what is vegan that they have lost
sight of the
objective of avoiding unnecessary harm/cruelty/enviornmental damage.