On Jan 18, 11:25*pm, Joe Sallustio > wrote:
> On Jan 18, 11:07 am, Doug > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Tom -
> > * * *This is a Limited Edition kit - about as good as they get from
> > WinExpert. *I have a lot of respect for Jack Keller's winemaking
> > skills, but his area of expertise is really fruits / vegetables /
> > native grape varieties, not state-of-the-art kits. *The extended
> > instructions originated with Ed Goist and were posted in 2000, based
> > on Ed's experiences in prior years. *But state of the art in wine kits
> > has changed a lot in the past years, even since the 1990's.
>
> > I tend to agree with two aspects of the extended instructions. *First,
> > once wine is under airlock, there isn't really any firm timetable for
> > when various things have to happen. *Don't feel obliged to rush the
> > wine into bottles by the end of week 6. *Second, everybody I've ever
> > heard of who has used Stavin oak products has raved about them. *If
> > you are into big oak in red wines, you might well want to add some
> > Stavin cubes (or replace some of the kit oak "dust" with cubes). *On
> > the other hand, I have read a lot of Tim Vandergrift's posts about all
> > the research and testing that goes into the WE kits. *I won't say they
> > can't be improved upon, but the WE folks go to a lot of trouble to
> > make the results as good as can be, with a reasonable level of effort
> > by the winemaker. *Your odds are slim (IMHO) of improving on their
> > results by things like adding the bentonite after fermentation, or
> > fermenting in a carboy instead of a bucket, or adding generic "grape
> > tannin" or rehydrating the yeast the "proper" way instead of following
> > the "sprinkle and walk away" instructions.
>
> > I've done a number of WE Limited Edition kits, and I've been impressed
> > with nearly all of them. *Some of the reds in particular don't really
> > come into their own for 18 to 24 months, but when they do, they are
> > fabulous. *Since this is your one chance to do this kit, I think your
> > best bet is to follow the instructions reasonably closely. *That is my
> > two cents -- as always, free advice is worth at least what you pay for
> > it . . .
>
> > Doug
>
> Doug,
> I'll defer to you since I don't make kit wine but am a bit intrigued
> by them supplying 'oak dust' for a premium level kit. *I find dust to
> taste like it looks, like sawdust. *Everything you add or do to wine
> in process affects the taste to some degree in my experience. *It
> sounds like it goes in early so that mellows it out but it's still low
> end product as far as I am concerned. *I think chips/beans are far
> superior to dust, the staves and spirals seem to make sense too. * Oak
> is a very 'personal taste' thing and does recede with time *but that
> sound like one area where they left room for improvement, at least to
> me. *I like your idea of using beans over dust.
>
> It's not possible to make great wine from mediocre ingredients but it
> pretty easy to make mediocre wine from great ingredients so your
> advice to stay close to the process outlined by the mfg makes a lot of
> sense, they want you to buy more. * I never use oak dust on anything;
> even vinegar- which just loves oak.
>
> Joe- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I think the kit companies have a basic problem in that they have to/
choose to dumb down the process to make it easy and foolproof even for
beginners. I can understand the business rationale for this but it's
the main reason why experienced winemakers want to tinker with the
process. I work mostly with grapes and fresh juice but do kits
occasionally, especially whites. Last fall I got a "super premium" NZ
Sauvignon Blanc kit with the intention of following the directions - I
used to meddle in the past and then if the result wasn't to my liking,
didn't know if the cause was the kit or my meddling. In the end I
still deviated from the instructions in two points:

- no sorbate - this was already discussed,
- reducing the sulfite levels - the package in the kit had 4.5g of K-
meta, which seemed absurdly high. I took it down to 3g but even that
was too much. When I measured the sulfite before racking from the
fining lees, it was 40+ ppm and very noticeable in the wine.

On top of this, the instructions usually say one can consider the
ferment finished if the s.g. is below 0.998 and the level doesn't
change from one day to the next. That sounds like a recipe for ending
with some RS in the wine... which might be the reason for adding
sorbate in the first place... which is still misguided.

So basically, following the instructions to the letter, I could end up
with an off-dry white wine smelling of sulfite and bubblegum - a far
cry from a good quality NZ Sauvignon Blanc.

On the other hand, I did the same kit on the side by following my
usual process of making white wine from juice - no bentonite at
beginning, special yeast, lower fermentation temperature, lower
sulfite additions, etc., and at least in some characteristics
(varietal character, aroma instensity), the kit process seemed to be
better at 2 months. So
overall, I think the best strategy is to follow the general framework
of the instructions but don't be afraid to deviate on points that are
suspect - there might be some trial and error involved to figure these
out.

Pp