http://dyske.com/default.asp?view_id=786


Koreans and chinese shamelessly mimic japanese in an attempt to con
americans! Dont be fooled by kimchee eating con artists, learn the
techniques gooks use to trick people of their heritage!


Koreans and chinese should be more proud of the ir own culture, but
they sacrifice for tacky jap imitations. Cowards, arent they?



-------------------------------------------
What I'm about to tell you may be very specific to New York, but there
has been a trend among Chinese and Korean restaurateurs to open
Japanese restaurants without paying any respect to the art of Japanese
cuisine. This is obviously done solely to take advantage of the bigger
profit margin associated with Japanese cuisine. Don't get me wrong; I
have nothing against Chinese or Korean people. And, I respect their
cuisines just as much as I respect Japanese cuisine. I'm also aware of
the frustration Koreans have about the Japanese people making Kimchi
that does not meet the Korean standard. My problem is that I just
don't like people who disrespect the cultures of others, and do
nothing but to exploit them.

Not all Chinese or Korean owned Japanese restaurants are bad. For
instance, Jeollado in the East Village which serves both Japanese and
Korean cuisines. To me, they are an exception to my definition of
"exploitation" because the sushi they serve is good and original in
their own ways, though it may not meet the standards of Japanese sushi
connoisseurs. Unfortunately the vast majority of Chinese and Korean
owned Japanese restaurants are exploitative. Most of them do not seem
to even bother reading a book on how to make proper Japanese food.
They simply mimic the way Japanese food looks, and nothing more. They
put a piece of raw fish on a ball of rice and call it "sushi", not
realizing that sushi rice is made quite differently from ordinary
rice. They deep-fry breaded pieces of vegetables and call them
"tempura", not realizing that tempura batter and sauce are nothing
like what you use for chicken cutlet. If they pay this little
attention to details, just imagine how much attention they pay to the
treatment of raw fish. No matter how much cheaper these places may be,
it's not worth getting food poisoned.

For Japanese people living in New York, distinguishing real Japanese
restaurants from the fake ones comes as a second nature. We can feel
and smell the fakes ones from miles away. Let me clue you in on how we
do it.

Firstly, don't trust any Japanese restaurants that use the typeface
called Wonton. I would guess that this type was designed by some white
guy who knew nothing about the art of oriental calligraphy. He
probably went by what it looked like to him, in the same way those
exploitative Chinese and Korean restaurateurs mimic Japanese food. The
type design looks nothing like what authentic Oriental calligraphy
looks like. It is so bad that when I first saw it in this country, I
didn't realize that it was supposed to be mimicking it. I thought it
was just a terrible-looking typeface. Hence it would never occur to a
right-minded Japanese person to use this font for his restaurant. It
is only appropriate for those whose minds are full of opportunities to
exploit, that they use such a font.

Give a healthy dose of skepticism to Japanese restaurants that have
neon signs. Though this is not a definitive rule, neon signs are
rarely seen for restaurants that serve traditional Japanese food in
Japan. Most Japanese persons would find it distasteful.

Look at the menu. If it contains a section of Chinese or Korean food,
it is a good sign that it is not a real Japanese restaurant.
Exploitative minds cannot let go of any moneymaking opportunities.
Since the cooks they have in their kitchens are likely to be Chinese
or Korean, they don't want their real skills to go to waste. They
therefore cannot resist serving Chinese or Korean food such as Chicken
Chow Mein, Sweet and Sour Pork, or General Tso's Chicken.

Look at the way the take-out menu is printed. The printing
characteristics can tell you a lot about who is culturally behind it.
Is it a Legal size paper folded into four vertical panels? Chinese
printers in New York are constantly printing take out menus. I'm sure
there are printers who do nothing but to print Chinese take-out menus.
If you get in on their existing templates, it's much cheaper. Again,
an exploitative mind would not miss opportunities like this.

Is it printed with black and red inks? Chinese people seem to love
red. It appears that if they are not giving too much thought to it,
they end up using red. If a Japanese person were to mindlessly pick a
color for a menu, it would not be red. Despite the fact that the
Japanese flag is nothing but a big red dot, it is not a popular color
in Japanese culture.

Does every item have a unique number? This is a little piece of
Chinese wisdom. Since they deal with a massive number of delivery
calls, and since many of them do not speak English well, they came up
with a simple solution of assigning unique numbers to all items.
Japanese restaurants do not usually deal with a large number of
deliveries, so they do not think that carefully when they are printing
their menus.

Does it have multiple numbers to call? Does it have a discount coupon
on the cover? Again, Japanese restaurants are not as eager to make
money from deliveries as Chinese restaurants are. It would not occur
to Japanese restaurant owners to get multiple phone lines for delivery
calls; let alone offer discount coupons.

Watch out for restaurant names that are overly pandering to the
ignorance of the American public. Well-known Japanese words like
"Tokyo", "Zen", "Sayonara", "Kyoto", "wasabi", and "Fuji" sound so
tacky to Japanese people that if you were a Japanese person who owns a
restaurant with a name that contains any of these words, you might
consider committing harakiri. Only a non-Japanese person could
shamelessly adopt such words for their restaurants.

There is a scene in the 1998 version of Godzilla, where Matthew
Broderick is holding a can of food that is supposed to be Japanese.
Any Chinese, Korean, or Japanese person could tell that the label is
not printed in Japanese but in Korean. I can imagine the prop master
of the film sending his assistant to pick up a bunch of canned foods
from a Japanese grocery store. The assistant probably went to a Korean
store because he saw no difference. He bought a bunch of them and
showed them to the prop master, and the latter probably took one and
said, "This is cool. It looks Japanese to me."

When I need to deal with a culture that is foreign to me, I treat it
with utmost respect. When I had to create a type treatment for a TV
commercial in Spanish and French, I did not pretend to know what
capitalization, line breaking, or connotations of colors meant in
these languages. So, I insisted that native speakers approve all these
aspects of my design. This scene in Godzilla is especially ironic
because Godzilla is a creation of Japanese pop culture. Obviously the
creators had nothing in mind except for exploiting the popularity of
Godzilla. It is perfectly understandable that you may not appreciate a
certain culture, but if that is the case, you should not exploit it
either. When you exploit a culture, it is perceived as an insult, like
you are making fun of that culture.

>-------------------------------------------
>What I'm about to tell you may be very specific to New York, but there
>has been a trend among Chinese and Korean restaurateurs to open
>Japanese restaurants without paying any respect to the art of Japanese
>cuisine.

Here in Vancouver BC the streets are lousy with 5th rate Chinese and
Korean run 'Japnese restaurants'.
They are uniformly dirty and poorly run-a disgrace all 'round.
They are also notorious for serving farmed Salmon-a sure sign of
inferiority.

Chinese and Koreans are known in Asia and around the world as the
biggest copy cat of all time.


(SuperOutland) wrote in message om>...
> http://dyske.com/default.asp?view_id=786
>
>
> Koreans and chinese shamelessly mimic japanese in an attempt to con
> americans! Dont be fooled by kimchee eating con artists, learn the
> techniques gooks use to trick people of their heritage!
>
>
> Koreans and chinese should be more proud of the ir own culture, but
> they sacrifice for tacky jap imitations. Cowards, arent they?
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------
> What I'm about to tell you may be very specific to New York, but there
> has been a trend among Chinese and Korean restaurateurs to open
> Japanese restaurants without paying any respect to the art of Japanese
> cuisine. This is obviously done solely to take advantage of the bigger
> profit margin associated with Japanese cuisine. Don't get me wrong; I
> have nothing against Chinese or Korean people. And, I respect their
> cuisines just as much as I respect Japanese cuisine. I'm also aware of
> the frustration Koreans have about the Japanese people making Kimchi
> that does not meet the Korean standard. My problem is that I just
> don't like people who disrespect the cultures of others, and do
> nothing but to exploit them.
>
> Not all Chinese or Korean owned Japanese restaurants are bad. For
> instance, Jeollado in the East Village which serves both Japanese and
> Korean cuisines. To me, they are an exception to my definition of
> "exploitation" because the sushi they serve is good and original in
> their own ways, though it may not meet the standards of Japanese sushi
> connoisseurs. Unfortunately the vast majority of Chinese and Korean
> owned Japanese restaurants are exploitative. Most of them do not seem
> to even bother reading a book on how to make proper Japanese food.
> They simply mimic the way Japanese food looks, and nothing more. They
> put a piece of raw fish on a ball of rice and call it "sushi", not
> realizing that sushi rice is made quite differently from ordinary
> rice. They deep-fry breaded pieces of vegetables and call them
> "tempura", not realizing that tempura batter and sauce are nothing
> like what you use for chicken cutlet. If they pay this little
> attention to details, just imagine how much attention they pay to the
> treatment of raw fish. No matter how much cheaper these places may be,
> it's not worth getting food poisoned.
>
> For Japanese people living in New York, distinguishing real Japanese
> restaurants from the fake ones comes as a second nature. We can feel
> and smell the fakes ones from miles away. Let me clue you in on how we
> do it.
>
> Firstly, don't trust any Japanese restaurants that use the typeface
> called Wonton. I would guess that this type was designed by some white
> guy who knew nothing about the art of oriental calligraphy. He
> probably went by what it looked like to him, in the same way those
> exploitative Chinese and Korean restaurateurs mimic Japanese food. The
> type design looks nothing like what authentic Oriental calligraphy
> looks like. It is so bad that when I first saw it in this country, I
> didn't realize that it was supposed to be mimicking it. I thought it
> was just a terrible-looking typeface. Hence it would never occur to a
> right-minded Japanese person to use this font for his restaurant. It
> is only appropriate for those whose minds are full of opportunities to
> exploit, that they use such a font.
>
> Give a healthy dose of skepticism to Japanese restaurants that have
> neon signs. Though this is not a definitive rule, neon signs are
> rarely seen for restaurants that serve traditional Japanese food in
> Japan. Most Japanese persons would find it distasteful.
>
> Look at the menu. If it contains a section of Chinese or Korean food,
> it is a good sign that it is not a real Japanese restaurant.
> Exploitative minds cannot let go of any moneymaking opportunities.
> Since the cooks they have in their kitchens are likely to be Chinese
> or Korean, they don't want their real skills to go to waste. They
> therefore cannot resist serving Chinese or Korean food such as Chicken
> Chow Mein, Sweet and Sour Pork, or General Tso's Chicken.
>
> Look at the way the take-out menu is printed. The printing
> characteristics can tell you a lot about who is culturally behind it.
> Is it a Legal size paper folded into four vertical panels? Chinese
> printers in New York are constantly printing take out menus. I'm sure
> there are printers who do nothing but to print Chinese take-out menus.
> If you get in on their existing templates, it's much cheaper. Again,
> an exploitative mind would not miss opportunities like this.
>
> Is it printed with black and red inks? Chinese people seem to love
> red. It appears that if they are not giving too much thought to it,
> they end up using red. If a Japanese person were to mindlessly pick a
> color for a menu, it would not be red. Despite the fact that the
> Japanese flag is nothing but a big red dot, it is not a popular color
> in Japanese culture.
>
> Does every item have a unique number? This is a little piece of
> Chinese wisdom. Since they deal with a massive number of delivery
> calls, and since many of them do not speak English well, they came up
> with a simple solution of assigning unique numbers to all items.
> Japanese restaurants do not usually deal with a large number of
> deliveries, so they do not think that carefully when they are printing
> their menus.
>
> Does it have multiple numbers to call? Does it have a discount coupon
> on the cover? Again, Japanese restaurants are not as eager to make
> money from deliveries as Chinese restaurants are. It would not occur
> to Japanese restaurant owners to get multiple phone lines for delivery
> calls; let alone offer discount coupons.
>
> Watch out for restaurant names that are overly pandering to the
> ignorance of the American public. Well-known Japanese words like
> "Tokyo", "Zen", "Sayonara", "Kyoto", "wasabi", and "Fuji" sound so
> tacky to Japanese people that if you were a Japanese person who owns a
> restaurant with a name that contains any of these words, you might
> consider committing harakiri. Only a non-Japanese person could
> shamelessly adopt such words for their restaurants.
>
> There is a scene in the 1998 version of Godzilla, where Matthew
> Broderick is holding a can of food that is supposed to be Japanese.
> Any Chinese, Korean, or Japanese person could tell that the label is
> not printed in Japanese but in Korean. I can imagine the prop master
> of the film sending his assistant to pick up a bunch of canned foods
> from a Japanese grocery store. The assistant probably went to a Korean
> store because he saw no difference. He bought a bunch of them and
> showed them to the prop master, and the latter probably took one and
> said, "This is cool. It looks Japanese to me."
>
> When I need to deal with a culture that is foreign to me, I treat it
> with utmost respect. When I had to create a type treatment for a TV
> commercial in Spanish and French, I did not pretend to know what
> capitalization, line breaking, or connotations of colors meant in
> these languages. So, I insisted that native speakers approve all these
> aspects of my design. This scene in Godzilla is especially ironic
> because Godzilla is a creation of Japanese pop culture. Obviously the
> creators had nothing in mind except for exploiting the popularity of
> Godzilla. It is perfectly understandable that you may not appreciate a
> certain culture, but if that is the case, you should not exploit it
> either. When you exploit a culture, it is perceived as an insult, like
> you are making fun of that culture.

"Sam Salmon" > wrote in message
...

> They are uniformly dirty and poorly run-a disgrace all 'round.
> They are also notorious for serving farmed Salmon-a sure sign of
> inferiority.

Quite an industry in Canada, that nasty 'ol farmed salmon. Atlantic salmon
all uniform in size and not buggered up on the way to market by fishermen
who don't know how to handle fish properly for sushi trade . . . and then
there is all that farmed King salmon we find on sale at supermarket up/down
the West Coast.

"Sam Salmon" > wrote:

> Here in Vancouver BC the streets are lousy with 5th rate Chinese and
> Korean run 'Japnese restaurants'.
> They are uniformly dirty and poorly run-a disgrace all 'round.
> They are also notorious for serving farmed Salmon-a sure sign of
> inferiority.

What do you mean by "inferior"? Farmed salmon is certainly cheaper, but I
thought it was better suited for sushi since it is much fattier than wild
salmon. Around here, it is often called "toro salmon" because of the way it
almost melts in your mouth like toro.

--
Dave Fossett
Saitama, Japan

Dave if you do a search in alt.food.sushi you'll see that the issue
has been raked over many times.
Essentially farmed Salmon is ecologically unsustainable and some is
downright poisonous.






On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 11:55:18 +0900, "Dave Fossett"
> wrote:

>"Sam Salmon" > wrote:
>
>> Here in Vancouver BC the streets are lousy with 5th rate Chinese and
>> Korean run 'Japnese restaurants'.
>> They are uniformly dirty and poorly run-a disgrace all 'round.
>> They are also notorious for serving farmed Salmon-a sure sign of
>> inferiority.
>
>What do you mean by "inferior"? Farmed salmon is certainly cheaper, but I
>thought it was better suited for sushi since it is much fattier than wild
>salmon. Around here, it is often called "toro salmon" because of the way it
>almost melts in your mouth like toro.

"Sam Salmon" > wrote:

> Dave if you do a search in alt.food.sushi you'll see that the issue
> has been raked over many times.
> Essentially farmed Salmon is ecologically unsustainable and some is
> downright poisonous.

OK, thanks. I didn't know that. It does taste jolly good though. :-)

--
Dave Fossett
Saitama, Japan

"Sam Salmon" > wrote in message
...

> Dave if you do a search in alt.food.sushi you'll see that the issue
> has been raked over many times.

Then why do you throw out garbage like this:

> >> They are also notorious for serving farmed Salmon-a sure sign of
> >> inferiority.

> Essentially farmed Salmon is ecologically unsustainable and some is
> downright poisonous.

There are a number of problems with this simplistic statement. What the
hell does "ecologically unsustainable" mean? It's a big ocean out there,
Sam.

Downright poisonous? How many people have been poisoned by consuming
Atlantic salmon? Further, please tell us how much "downright poisonous"
Atlantic salmon enters the market at any given time.

Please, oh please . . . don't cite greenie web sites.

> Chinese and Koreans are known in Asia and around the world as the
> biggest copy cat of all time.



Like the Japanese aren't as well!

;-)

"Sam Salmon" > wrote in message
...
>
> >-------------------------------------------
> >What I'm about to tell you may be very specific to New York, but there
> >has been a trend among Chinese and Korean restaurateurs to open
> >Japanese restaurants without paying any respect to the art of Japanese
> >cuisine.
>
> Here in Vancouver BC the streets are lousy with 5th rate Chinese and
> Korean run 'Japnese restaurants'.
> They are uniformly dirty and poorly run-a disgrace all 'round.

What is the customer profile in those restaurants? I bet it is white and
middle-class. Those restaurants would not exist at all were there not a LOT
of white middle-class people with very low standards.


> They are also notorious for serving farmed Salmon-a sure sign of
> inferiority.

Heheh. That is rather unappreciative of you. As inferior as those
restaurants are, they did serve you. Mr. Salmon, are you from a farm
yourself?

In article > ,
SuperOutland > wrote:
} ... gooks use to trick people ...

Well, that's all I needed to see to know what to think of
this article.

peace,

-*-
Charles M. Kozierok >)
Co-moderator, ne.weather.moderated (<news:ne.weather.moderated>)
Join us for weather info and discussion in a civil, low-noise environment.
Contact me for assistance in having ne.weather.moderated added to your server.

In article >,
Dave Fossett > wrote:
} "Sam Salmon" > wrote:
}
} > Here in Vancouver BC the streets are lousy with 5th rate Chinese and
} > Korean run 'Japnese restaurants'.
} > They are uniformly dirty and poorly run-a disgrace all 'round.
} > They are also notorious for serving farmed Salmon-a sure sign of
} > inferiority.
}
} What do you mean by "inferior"?

Dave, this "Sam Salmon" guy has been raving about farmed salmon in
alt.food.sushi for as long as I can remember. My past reading leads
me to believe that he has some sort of an agenda in this area.

peace,

-*-
Charles M. Kozierok >)
Co-moderator, ne.weather.moderated (<news:ne.weather.moderated>)
Join us for weather info and discussion in a civil, low-noise environment.
Contact me for assistance in having ne.weather.moderated added to your server.

(Charles M. Kozierok) wrote in message >...
> In article > ,
> SuperOutland > wrote:
> } ... gooks use to trick people ...
>
> Well, that's all I needed to see to know what to think of
> this article.
>
> peace,

I clearly speerated my quotes from there with a line

min10011 wrote:

> "Sam Salmon" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>>-------------------------------------------
>>>What I'm about to tell you may be very specific to New York, but there
>>>has been a trend among Chinese and Korean restaurateurs to open
>>>Japanese restaurants without paying any respect to the art of Japanese
>>>cuisine.
>>
>>Here in Vancouver BC the streets are lousy with 5th rate Chinese and
>>Korean run 'Japnese restaurants'.
>>They are uniformly dirty and poorly run-a disgrace all 'round.
>
> What is the customer profile in those restaurants? I bet it is white and
> middle-class. Those restaurants would not exist at all were there not a LOT
> of white middle-class people with very low standards.

There are a lot of *taiwanese* owned sushi places in Vancouver. There
are also a number of Chinese owned, but also serve chinese food.

The majority of Korean owned sushi places are your typical Korean
restaurants that also serve sushi.

The Japanese owned joints have decided that Tapas-like places are the
way to go for "funkiness" (read: serve less, charge more). And there are
a lot of bad Japanese owned sushi places or fast food-like places. Most
of the clientele are japanese and it's expected...but sushi is
ironically not their forte...

The general belief among the gastronomically challenged Vancouverites is
that lots of food = good restaurant. Only the really really expensive
places are worthwhile going to (have you hear of Vij's, Min? Apparently
the NYT considered it to be the best indian fusion food in North
America...best damned food I've had in a while).

So to put an end to my rambling...yes the cheaper joints are frequented
more by white males, and not just middle class (unless you consider the
dispoable income of *** males as middle class). They don't know and they
don't care.

But let's face it, to the majority of people in the world, slab anything
on a ball of rice and voila! you have sushi. If the person slabbing is
japanese then you have great sushi. Converse with the guy slabbing and
you have a special rapport and can call yourself a sushi connoisseur.
This despite the fact that many sushi joints run by japanese also suck
royally...

The author of the article is just a pretentious little ****...

>>They are also notorious for serving farmed Salmon-a sure sign of
>>inferiority.

There is no japanese restaurant run by japanese in Vancouver that
*doesn't* serve farmed salmon unless you pay for it.

Austin

"Austin P. So (Hae Jin)" > wrote in message
...
> min10011 wrote:
>
> > "Sam Salmon" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>>-------------------------------------------
> >>>What I'm about to tell you may be very specific to New York, but there
> >>>has been a trend among Chinese and Korean restaurateurs to open
> >>>Japanese restaurants without paying any respect to the art of Japanese
> >>>cuisine.
> >>
> >>Here in Vancouver BC the streets are lousy with 5th rate Chinese and
> >>Korean run 'Japnese restaurants'.
> >>They are uniformly dirty and poorly run-a disgrace all 'round.
> >
> > What is the customer profile in those restaurants? I bet it is white
and
> > middle-class. Those restaurants would not exist at all were there not a
LOT
> > of white middle-class people with very low standards.
>
> There are a lot of *taiwanese* owned sushi places in Vancouver. There
> are also a number of Chinese owned, but also serve chinese food.

The recent surge of cheap low-quality take-out/delivery sushi that that
article centers on is an almost entirely Chinese commercialistic phenomon.


> The majority of Korean owned sushi places are your typical Korean
> restaurants that also serve sushi.

That's the same as in NYC. The Korean restaurants that serve sushi have
been doing so forever and generally are good. They do it not to cash in on
the inexperienced but to satisfy Koreans who in fact do enjoy sushi. One of
my favorite places for omakase was in the old Han Sung restaurant, where the
chef was trained in Japan. It was perhaps the best sushi deal in NYC (alas,
now gone).


> The Japanese owned joints have decided that Tapas-like places are the
> way to go for "funkiness" (read: serve less, charge more). And there are
> a lot of bad Japanese owned sushi places or fast food-like places. Most
> of the clientele are japanese and it's expected...but sushi is
> ironically not their forte...

Almost without exception the highest quality sushi in NYC is found in
Japanese owned and operated restaurants, but I've had some awful food in
enough Japanese o/o restaurants especially in smaller cities and in Japan to
know that universally impeccable culinary standards are yet another Japanese
myth.


> The general belief among the gastronomically challenged Vancouverites
> is that lots of food = good restaurant.

Then "All-U-Can-Eat" sushi joints must do well there. The first --and
last -- time I visited one (Japanese o/o, BTW) I knew there was going to be
trouble when I saw the rule that the rice had to be consumed completely and
I noticed the "itamae," a gigantic sumo-wrestler guy, crushing gobs of rice
into heavy bricks with his bear paw hands. Not only did they taste
terrible, but those dense rice balls expanded three-fold once they met with
beer in the stomach.


> Only the really really expensive places are worthwhile going to (have you
> hear of Vij's, Min? Apparently the NYT considered it to be the best indian
> fusion food in North America...best damned food I've had in a while).

Never heard of Vij's, but as a devotee of Indian food I'll have to remember
the name. While we're on the topic of Indian food... The Japanese took
curry and completely reworked it into kari-raisu, a hugely popular dish in
Japan. Indians I know have expressed their utter disgust of the stuff. The
Japanese really cannot claim any high ground WRT the *******ization of
traditional foods and the subsequent offending of purist sensibilities.


> So to put an end to my rambling...yes the cheaper joints are frequented
> more by white males, and not just middle class (unless you consider the
> dispoable income of *** males as middle class). They don't know and they
> don't care.
>
> But let's face it, to the majority of people in the world, slab anything
> on a ball of rice and voila! you have sushi. If the person slabbing is
> japanese then you have great sushi. Converse with the guy slabbing and
> you have a special rapport and can call yourself a sushi connoisseur.
> This despite the fact that many sushi joints run by japanese also suck
> royally...
>
> The author of the article is just a pretentious little ****...

Damn ignorant, too. Lumping Korean restaurants with those god-awful Chinese
fast-food joints that could just as well be cheap taco stalls (yet another
niche filled by Chinese here, believe it or not) is really a sign of the
author's inexperience and his low level of discernment.

In article >,
SuperOutland > wrote:
} (Charles M. Kozierok) wrote in message
} >...
} > In article > ,
} > SuperOutland > wrote:
} > } ... gooks use to trick people ...
} >
} > Well, that's all I needed to see to know what to think of
} > this article.
}
} I clearly speerated my quotes from there with a line

Yes, so?

That comment clearly reveals that you have a negative bias, which
makes me disinterested in reading any articles you feel like quoting on
the subject.

peace,

-*-
charles

"min10011" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Austin P. So (Hae Jin)" > wrote in message
> ...
> > min10011 wrote:
> >
> > > "Sam Salmon" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > >
> > >>>-------------------------------------------
> > >>>What I'm about to tell you may be very specific to New York, but
there
> > >>>has been a trend among Chinese and Korean restaurateurs to open
> > >>>Japanese restaurants without paying any respect to the art of
Japanese
> > >>>cuisine.
> > >>
> > >>Here in Vancouver BC the streets are lousy with 5th rate Chinese and
> > >>Korean run 'Japnese restaurants'.
> > >>They are uniformly dirty and poorly run-a disgrace all 'round.
> > >
> > > What is the customer profile in those restaurants? I bet it is white
> and
> > > middle-class. Those restaurants would not exist at all were there not
a
> LOT
> > > of white middle-class people with very low standards.
> >
> > There are a lot of *taiwanese* owned sushi places in Vancouver. There
> > are also a number of Chinese owned, but also serve chinese food.
>
> The recent surge of cheap low-quality take-out/delivery sushi that that
> article centers on is an almost entirely Chinese commercialistic phenomon.
>
>
> > The majority of Korean owned sushi places are your typical Korean
> > restaurants that also serve sushi.
>
> That's the same as in NYC. The Korean restaurants that serve sushi have
> been doing so forever and generally are good. They do it not to cash in
on
> the inexperienced but to satisfy Koreans who in fact do enjoy sushi. One
of
> my favorite places for omakase was in the old Han Sung restaurant, where
the
> chef was trained in Japan. It was perhaps the best sushi deal in NYC
(alas,
> now gone).
>
>
> > The Japanese owned joints have decided that Tapas-like places are the
> > way to go for "funkiness" (read: serve less, charge more). And there are
> > a lot of bad Japanese owned sushi places or fast food-like places. Most
> > of the clientele are japanese and it's expected...but sushi is
> > ironically not their forte...
>
> Almost without exception the highest quality sushi in NYC is found in
> Japanese owned and operated restaurants, but I've had some awful food in
> enough Japanese o/o restaurants especially in smaller cities and in Japan
to
> know that universally impeccable culinary standards are yet another
Japanese
> myth.
>
>
> > The general belief among the gastronomically challenged Vancouverites
> > is that lots of food = good restaurant.
>
> Then "All-U-Can-Eat" sushi joints must do well there. The first --and
> last -- time I visited one (Japanese o/o, BTW) I knew there was going to
be
> trouble when I saw the rule that the rice had to be consumed completely
and
> I noticed the "itamae," a gigantic sumo-wrestler guy, crushing gobs of
rice
> into heavy bricks with his bear paw hands. Not only did they taste
> terrible, but those dense rice balls expanded three-fold once they met
with
> beer in the stomach.
>
>
> > Only the really really expensive places are worthwhile going to (have
you
> > hear of Vij's, Min? Apparently the NYT considered it to be the best
indian
> > fusion food in North America...best damned food I've had in a while).
>
> Never heard of Vij's, but as a devotee of Indian food I'll have to
remember
> the name. While we're on the topic of Indian food... The Japanese took
> curry and completely reworked it into kari-raisu, a hugely popular dish in
> Japan. Indians I know have expressed their utter disgust of the stuff.
The
> Japanese really cannot claim any high ground WRT the *******ization of
> traditional foods and the subsequent offending of purist sensibilities.
>
>

Min...the Karee Raisu of Japan came from England, which of course
got it from India. It does not come anywhere near and is not intended to be
anything like "real" indian currys. Karee Raisu entered Japan in the late
1800s
so it has had some 114 years or more as a "Japanese food" to evolve
to suit Japanese tastes.


> > So to put an end to my rambling...yes the cheaper joints are frequented
> > more by white males, and not just middle class (unless you consider the
> > dispoable income of *** males as middle class). They don't know and they
> > don't care.
> >
> > But let's face it, to the majority of people in the world, slab anything
> > on a ball of rice and voila! you have sushi. If the person slabbing is
> > japanese then you have great sushi. Converse with the guy slabbing and
> > you have a special rapport and can call yourself a sushi connoisseur.
> > This despite the fact that many sushi joints run by japanese also suck
> > royally...
> >
> > The author of the article is just a pretentious little ****...
>
> Damn ignorant, too. Lumping Korean restaurants with those god-awful
Chinese
> fast-food joints that could just as well be cheap taco stalls (yet another
> niche filled by Chinese here, believe it or not) is really a sign of the
> author's inexperience and his low level of discernment.
>

Here I tend to agree with you. Although Korean run places do not have the
more obscure
offerings, they do seem to have the basics as well as the American born
rolls and such.
More importantly I find that Korean run places tend to place more emphasis
on freshness
and cleanliness than Chinese run ones do.

Koreans and Chinese wanna act Japs while all Japs bleech their hair

"SuperOutland" > wrote in message
m...
> http://dyske.com/default.asp?view_id=786
>
>
> Koreans and chinese shamelessly mimic japanese in an attempt to con
> americans! Dont be fooled by kimchee eating con artists, learn the
> techniques gooks use to trick people of their heritage!
>
>
> Koreans and chinese should be more proud of the ir own culture, but
> they sacrifice for tacky jap imitations. Cowards, arent they?
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------
> What I'm about to tell you may be very specific to New York, but there
> has been a trend among Chinese and Korean restaurateurs to open
> Japanese restaurants without paying any respect to the art of Japanese
> cuisine. This is obviously done solely to take advantage of the bigger
> profit margin associated with Japanese cuisine. Don't get me wrong; I
> have nothing against Chinese or Korean people. And, I respect their
> cuisines just as much as I respect Japanese cuisine. I'm also aware of
> the frustration Koreans have about the Japanese people making Kimchi
> that does not meet the Korean standard. My problem is that I just
> don't like people who disrespect the cultures of others, and do
> nothing but to exploit them.
>
> Not all Chinese or Korean owned Japanese restaurants are bad. For
> instance, Jeollado in the East Village which serves both Japanese and
> Korean cuisines. To me, they are an exception to my definition of
> "exploitation" because the sushi they serve is good and original in
> their own ways, though it may not meet the standards of Japanese sushi
> connoisseurs. Unfortunately the vast majority of Chinese and Korean
> owned Japanese restaurants are exploitative. Most of them do not seem
> to even bother reading a book on how to make proper Japanese food.
> They simply mimic the way Japanese food looks, and nothing more. They
> put a piece of raw fish on a ball of rice and call it "sushi", not
> realizing that sushi rice is made quite differently from ordinary
> rice. They deep-fry breaded pieces of vegetables and call them
> "tempura", not realizing that tempura batter and sauce are nothing
> like what you use for chicken cutlet. If they pay this little
> attention to details, just imagine how much attention they pay to the
> treatment of raw fish. No matter how much cheaper these places may be,
> it's not worth getting food poisoned.
>
> For Japanese people living in New York, distinguishing real Japanese
> restaurants from the fake ones comes as a second nature. We can feel
> and smell the fakes ones from miles away. Let me clue you in on how we
> do it.
>
> Firstly, don't trust any Japanese restaurants that use the typeface
> called Wonton. I would guess that this type was designed by some white
> guy who knew nothing about the art of oriental calligraphy. He
> probably went by what it looked like to him, in the same way those
> exploitative Chinese and Korean restaurateurs mimic Japanese food. The
> type design looks nothing like what authentic Oriental calligraphy
> looks like. It is so bad that when I first saw it in this country, I
> didn't realize that it was supposed to be mimicking it. I thought it
> was just a terrible-looking typeface. Hence it would never occur to a
> right-minded Japanese person to use this font for his restaurant. It
> is only appropriate for those whose minds are full of opportunities to
> exploit, that they use such a font.
>
> Give a healthy dose of skepticism to Japanese restaurants that have
> neon signs. Though this is not a definitive rule, neon signs are
> rarely seen for restaurants that serve traditional Japanese food in
> Japan. Most Japanese persons would find it distasteful.
>
> Look at the menu. If it contains a section of Chinese or Korean food,
> it is a good sign that it is not a real Japanese restaurant.
> Exploitative minds cannot let go of any moneymaking opportunities.
> Since the cooks they have in their kitchens are likely to be Chinese
> or Korean, they don't want their real skills to go to waste. They
> therefore cannot resist serving Chinese or Korean food such as Chicken
> Chow Mein, Sweet and Sour Pork, or General Tso's Chicken.
>
> Look at the way the take-out menu is printed. The printing
> characteristics can tell you a lot about who is culturally behind it.
> Is it a Legal size paper folded into four vertical panels? Chinese
> printers in New York are constantly printing take out menus. I'm sure
> there are printers who do nothing but to print Chinese take-out menus.
> If you get in on their existing templates, it's much cheaper. Again,
> an exploitative mind would not miss opportunities like this.
>
> Is it printed with black and red inks? Chinese people seem to love
> red. It appears that if they are not giving too much thought to it,
> they end up using red. If a Japanese person were to mindlessly pick a
> color for a menu, it would not be red. Despite the fact that the
> Japanese flag is nothing but a big red dot, it is not a popular color
> in Japanese culture.
>
> Does every item have a unique number? This is a little piece of
> Chinese wisdom. Since they deal with a massive number of delivery
> calls, and since many of them do not speak English well, they came up
> with a simple solution of assigning unique numbers to all items.
> Japanese restaurants do not usually deal with a large number of
> deliveries, so they do not think that carefully when they are printing
> their menus.
>
> Does it have multiple numbers to call? Does it have a discount coupon
> on the cover? Again, Japanese restaurants are not as eager to make
> money from deliveries as Chinese restaurants are. It would not occur
> to Japanese restaurant owners to get multiple phone lines for delivery
> calls; let alone offer discount coupons.
>
> Watch out for restaurant names that are overly pandering to the
> ignorance of the American public. Well-known Japanese words like
> "Tokyo", "Zen", "Sayonara", "Kyoto", "wasabi", and "Fuji" sound so
> tacky to Japanese people that if you were a Japanese person who owns a
> restaurant with a name that contains any of these words, you might
> consider committing harakiri. Only a non-Japanese person could
> shamelessly adopt such words for their restaurants.
>
> There is a scene in the 1998 version of Godzilla, where Matthew
> Broderick is holding a can of food that is supposed to be Japanese.
> Any Chinese, Korean, or Japanese person could tell that the label is
> not printed in Japanese but in Korean. I can imagine the prop master
> of the film sending his assistant to pick up a bunch of canned foods
> from a Japanese grocery store. The assistant probably went to a Korean
> store because he saw no difference. He bought a bunch of them and
> showed them to the prop master, and the latter probably took one and
> said, "This is cool. It looks Japanese to me."
>
> When I need to deal with a culture that is foreign to me, I treat it
> with utmost respect. When I had to create a type treatment for a TV
> commercial in Spanish and French, I did not pretend to know what
> capitalization, line breaking, or connotations of colors meant in
> these languages. So, I insisted that native speakers approve all these
> aspects of my design. This scene in Godzilla is especially ironic
> because Godzilla is a creation of Japanese pop culture. Obviously the
> creators had nothing in mind except for exploiting the popularity of
> Godzilla. It is perfectly understandable that you may not appreciate a
> certain culture, but if that is the case, you should not exploit it
> either. When you exploit a culture, it is perceived as an insult, like
> you are making fun of that culture.

"Musashi" > wrote in message . com>...
> Here I tend to agree with you. Although Korean run places do not have the
> more obscure
> offerings, they do seem to have the basics as well as the American born
> rolls and such.
> More importantly I find that Korean run places tend to place more emphasis
> on freshness
> and cleanliness than Chinese run ones do.

don't forget that the chinese leer more and have bigger buck teeth!
and we're deceptive - a lot of japanese sushi chefs have asked me how
long i was in japan - and i never have been!

(for you oblivious types, the sound you hear in the background is the
sarcasm meter going off - even though the last part is actually true.
oh please!)

ironically, older native taiwanese are likely to speak japanese and
also be more likely to intermarry with japanese (generally unheard of
given the normal level of antipathy ethnic chinese have for ethnic
japanese) and in general be very familiar with japanese culture - a
consequence of japan administrating the island of formosa (as it was
known then for the first half of the 20th century before the
nationalists took over).

i'm guessing that the guy who originally posted has a major chip on
his shoulder - a piece from the huge hunk of wood resting on his neck.

barry chin
pasadena, ca

"danseur" > wrote in message
om...
> "Musashi" > wrote in message
. com>...
> > Here I tend to agree with you. Although Korean run places do not have
the
> > more obscure
> > offerings, they do seem to have the basics as well as the American born
> > rolls and such.
> > More importantly I find that Korean run places tend to place more
emphasis
> > on freshness
> > and cleanliness than Chinese run ones do.
>
> don't forget that the chinese leer more and have bigger buck teeth!

No only one guy I know fits that description.

> and we're deceptive -

Only the guy I buy computer parts from.

> a lot of japanese sushi chefs have asked me how
> long i was in japan - and i never have been!
>
Do you speak Japanese?

> (for you oblivious types, the sound you hear in the background is the
> sarcasm meter going off - even though the last part is actually true.
> oh please!)
>
Yes I know.

> ironically, older native taiwanese are likely to speak japanese and
> also be more likely to intermarry with japanese (generally unheard of
> given the normal level of antipathy ethnic chinese have for ethnic
> japanese) and in general be very familiar with japanese culture - a
> consequence of japan administrating the island of formosa (as it was
> known then for the first half of the 20th century before the
> nationalists took over).
>

This is absolutely true.

> i'm guessing that the guy who originally posted has a major chip on
> his shoulder - a piece from the huge hunk of wood resting on his neck.
> barry chin
> pasadena, ca

Maybe. But the guy who wrote the article wasn't even asian..was he?

"Musashi" > wrote in message .com>...
> "danseur" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "Musashi" > wrote in message
> . com>...
<SNIP>
> > don't forget that the chinese leer more and have bigger buck teeth!
>
> No only one guy I know fits that description.

i'll send you a personal pic! <g>

> > and we're deceptive -
>
> Only the guy I buy computer parts from.

how can you tell if we're truly deceptive and/or subtle? <g>

> > a lot of japanese sushi chefs have asked me how
> > long i was in japan - and i never have been!
> >
> Do you speak Japanese?

only a few phrases and colloquialisms, but apparently delivered in
appropriate context and with sufficiently accurate
inflection/culturally appropriate volume level to prompt the
waitresses to respond in japanese asking for drink orders, etc. i
don't visit a lot of new sushi places since i prefer to build
relationships with chefs over time, but more often than not when i've
gone to a new sushi bar, i ask certain questions and order certain
things that are generally ordered only by japanese patrons which has
prompted that sort of question from the chef. first they ask if i'm
japanese because i don't look it (i'm chinese but look filipino enough
so that often filipinos who are complete strangers address me in
tagalog - i learned the phrase 'hindee akaw filipino' "i'm not
filipino" to be able to respond. they usually laugh when i tell them
why i learned the phrase) and then ask when i was in japan. one chef i
know who is normally quite inscrutable still gives me the slightest of
smiles every time i order something like batera (sp?) or kohada.

> > (for you oblivious types, the sound you hear in the background is the
> > sarcasm meter going off - even though the last part is actually true.
> > oh please!)
> >
> Yes I know.

but not everyone else might.

> > ironically, older native taiwanese are likely to speak japanese and
> > also be more likely to intermarry with japanese (generally unheard of
> > given the normal level of antipathy ethnic chinese have for ethnic
> > japanese) and in general be very familiar with japanese culture - a
> > consequence of japan administrating the island of formosa (as it was
> > known then for the first half of the 20th century before the
> > nationalists took over).
> >
>
> This is absolutely true.

the first chef i learned a lot about sushi from was taiwanese. he's
moved to a restaurant in another county so i don't visit him very
often any more but we reached a point where he'd order me some pretty
special stuff for special occasions like my birthday. one such item
was a fish that is apparently found only at high altitude in one lake
in japan. i was told that it was good luck to eat the bitter part. the
point is that just because a chef (or patron, i suppose) may not be
ethnic japanese, that doesn't mean that they don't know their craft
and/or respect japanese tradition/culture.

> > i'm guessing that the guy who originally posted has a major chip on
> > his shoulder - a piece from the huge hunk of wood resting on his neck.
> > barry chin
> > pasadena, ca
>
> Maybe. But the guy who wrote the article wasn't even asian..was he?

truth be told, i didn't skim more than the first couple of sentences
to get an idea of the gist of the article. but everyone is provincial
in their viewpoint about their ethnic culture to some degree which IMO
is just an expression of arrogance.

as a white person, i agree with what you have to say... but... they're not
stupid. a lot of the time they realize they're chinese or korean.. they dont
know the traditions that come with a real japanese restaurant etc. the thing
is though, they don't really care either. they're all for quantity over
quality, which i guesse i am an exception to.. "they" lol. im white too..
whatever :P
"min10011" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Sam Salmon" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > >-------------------------------------------
> > >What I'm about to tell you may be very specific to New York, but there
> > >has been a trend among Chinese and Korean restaurateurs to open
> > >Japanese restaurants without paying any respect to the art of Japanese
> > >cuisine.
> >
> > Here in Vancouver BC the streets are lousy with 5th rate Chinese and
> > Korean run 'Japnese restaurants'.
> > They are uniformly dirty and poorly run-a disgrace all 'round.
>
> What is the customer profile in those restaurants? I bet it is white and
> middle-class. Those restaurants would not exist at all were there not a
LOT
> of white middle-class people with very low standards.
>
>
> > They are also notorious for serving farmed Salmon-a sure sign of
> > inferiority.
>
> Heheh. That is rather unappreciative of you. As inferior as those
> restaurants are, they did serve you. Mr. Salmon, are you from a farm
> yourself?
>
>