Everyone,

I had some fresh wild salmon and decided to barbeque it. I used a
fish grilling basket, the kind with the two pieces that fit together
to hold the fish. When the fish was done, it was thoroughly stuck to
the basket. I sprayed it with non-stick stuff before grilling.

Any solutions to this problem? Is it just going to happen? Should I
have brushed the thing down with oil to prevent sticking? Help.

By the way, the fish was great.

TIA,

Ken

In article >,
(Ken) wrote:

> Everyone,
>
> I had some fresh wild salmon and decided to barbeque it. I used a
> fish grilling basket, the kind with the two pieces that fit together
> to hold the fish. When the fish was done, it was thoroughly stuck to
> the basket. I sprayed it with non-stick stuff before grilling.
>
> Any solutions to this problem? Is it just going to happen? Should I
> have brushed the thing down with oil to prevent sticking? Help.

Check out the current issue of Cook's Illustrated. There is an article
about grilling salmon. One of the things that they discuss is how you
can avoid sticking. Executive summary: grilling baskets and non-stick
sprays don't work as well as just using an oil-soaked paper towel to
swab the grill. My own experience bears this out.

--
Julian Vrieslander

In rec.food.cooking, Ken > wrote:

> I had some fresh wild salmon and decided to barbeque it. I used a
> fish grilling basket, the kind with the two pieces that fit together
> to hold the fish. When the fish was done, it was thoroughly stuck to
> the basket. I sprayed it with non-stick stuff before grilling.

> Any solutions to this problem? Is it just going to happen? Should I
> have brushed the thing down with oil to prevent sticking? Help.


It will stick no matter what you do if you use a cold basket and cold
fish. You need to plop the fish down on a HOT grill to sear it.

--
....I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...

- The Who

Julian Vrieslander wrote:
> In article >,
> (Ken) wrote:
>
>
>>Everyone,
>>
>>I had some fresh wild salmon and decided to barbeque it. I used a
>>fish grilling basket, the kind with the two pieces that fit together
>>to hold the fish. When the fish was done, it was thoroughly stuck to
>>the basket. I sprayed it with non-stick stuff before grilling.
>>
>>Any solutions to this problem? Is it just going to happen? Should I
>>have brushed the thing down with oil to prevent sticking? Help.
>
>
> Check out the current issue of Cook's Illustrated. There is an article
> about grilling salmon. One of the things that they discuss is how you
> can avoid sticking. Executive summary: grilling baskets and non-stick
> sprays don't work as well as just using an oil-soaked paper towel to
> swab the grill. My own experience bears this out.
>
Having never used a fish basket, I have never had my salmon, or other
firm fish, stick to the grill. Two things to remember: always oil the
grill; two, never put the fish on the grill until it is hot.

As an aside, the best way to grill the salmon is to lightly rub on olive
oil all over. Place the fish skin side down, until almost cooked. Turn
over to the flesh side, for just a minute or two.

BTW, the NYT is following up on my mention of Yukon River Kings:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/23/dining/23SALM.html.


June 23, 2004
Wild Flavor of the Yukon, Now in the Lower 48
By TIMOTHY EGAN

FAIRBANKS, Alaska
SCOURING the upper face of Alaska, the Yukon River flows nearly 2,000
miles before it braids and breaks to the Bering Sea. Its name evokes
Jack London, a sweet whiskey and a legendary run of king salmon. Of the
three, the salmon is perhaps the least known, but that is about to change.

Starting this month, Yukon River kings made their way into American
markets in the lower 48 states for the first time in a generation. They
arrived with a reputation, spread by travelers who know the Last
Frontier State well, as perhaps the best-tasting salmon in the world,
rich in oil content, as fat as a football, netted at the mouth of the
river by native Yup'ik Eskimo fishers who have lived off this run for
thousands of years.

"There is good wild salmon and not-so-good wild salmon," said Harry
Yoshimura, whose family has sold salmon at Mutual Fish in Seattle[best
seafood store in Seattle] for more than 50 years. "This is easily one of
the best."

Matters of taste are always debatable, but by one objective measure —
the amount of oil that gives the fish its richness and much of its
flavor — Yukon River kings would seem to be unmatched. According to
tests done by marketers at a lab in Oregon, the fish have nearly twice
as much oil as Copper River salmon, the wild Alaskan fish considered by
some to be the gold standard.

To salmon connoisseurs, Copper River has been over-hyped anyway, and is
only at its best during the first week of the run, usually in late May.
Yukon kings are poised to become the salmon of the moment. But because
about 50,000 pounds will be available through mid-July, the price should
stay below that of the less-abundant Copper River kings, according to
wholesalers.

The high oil content means that the fish is exceptionally moist, with a
distinct flavor. It is also high in Omega-3 fatty acids, which
nutritionists say are healthy for the heart.

It is one of the more far-flung foods to find its way into a main street
market's ice display. The Yukon River starts in Canada and touches the
edge of the Arctic Circle before lumbering southwest to a vast, roadless
delta. The river mouth is frozen from about late October till May. The
length of the river, and its chill, are largely responsible for the
salmon's richness.

The fish build up the insulating layer of body fat and oils near the end
of their lives in order to make the nearly 2,000-mile journey upriver in
60 days. By contrast, Copper River salmon swim about 300 miles to spawn.
Yukon kings are fished by natives just as they arrive at the river mouth
to begin their swim to spawning grounds.

"When they hit the river, they are really fat," said Deborah Vo, a
native Yup'ik with the Yukon River Delta Fisheries Association, which
harvests the fish. The natives hang the fish to dry and smoke them with
alder or driftwood.

"We brine them, store it for the winter, and the taste never gets old,"
Ms. Vo said. "This is probably the only fish my daughter will eat."

In the six Yup'ik villages scattered around the Yukon, natives smoke and
store Yukon kings for subsistence. Most of their remaining catch used to
go to Japan. There, Yukon kings are often dried and then flaked onto
special dishes, or given as a gift. As less expensive farmed fish have
flooded the market, the Japanese have become less willing to pay premium
prices. As a result, this year, the Yup'ik decided to try to sell the
fresh fish to mainland American markets, where they have not been seen
for 30 years.

Small amounts of Yukon king salmon have always made their way into a
handful of stores in Seattle, which considers itself the salmon capital
of the world.

"You've got some old-timers who rave about it," Mr. Yoshimura said. "And
people in the seafood industry have always known about Yukon kings. But
it's a secret to everyone else."

The question is whether American consumers, who have become increasingly
savvy about taste and texture of the different species of wild salmon,
will respond. Farmed salmon make up more than half of the overall salmon
market, but wild salmon have started to make inroads after reports of
possible health and environmental problems with the farmed variety.

Alaska has the world's most bounteous wild salmon runs, from the Copper
River sockeyes of late May to the bright, fleshy cohos, or silvers, of
September. But the fish are caught only during select openings, and
fishermen have long had trouble getting them to markets thousands of
miles away.

Yukon kings are caught by natives using nets and small skiffs. The fish
are flown in prop planes from a dirt landing strip to Anchorage, and
then by jet to Seattle and Chicago, kept packed in ice during the ride.
Kwik'pak Fisheries, which is selling the Yukon kings, says the fish can
show up on menus in major American cities within three days of leaving
the Yukon delta.

Grocery chains like Whole Foods, with stores nationwide, and
Metropolitan Market, in Seattle, have become prime retail showcases for
wild Alaskan salmon. For the next three weeks, the Yukon kings will be
in select stores and restaurants throughout the United States, including
Esca and the Oyster Bar in Grand Central Terminal in New York, and the
Oceanaire Seafood Room in Washington, D.C. It will be sold for $19.95 a
pound at Wegmans stores in New Jersey and in the Lehigh Valley in
Pennsylvania.

Wild salmon are endangered in some rivers along the West Coast, but the
runs are healthy in Alaska.

The Alaska runs have been trying to brand themselves, following the
success of Copper River, which is sold in Seattle with all the hype of
the Beaujolais nouveau.

Of the five species of Pacific salmon, kings are the largest and most
prized. Pacific coast natives called them chinook or tyees, names which
are also bestowed on great men or leaders. Some kings weigh as much as
100 pounds. Born in gravel-bed nests from central California to Alaska,
the fish migrate downstream, spend one to four years in the open
Pacific, and then return to their birth grounds to spawn and die. Once
they re-enter fresh water, they no longer eat, relying on their stores
of body fat and oil.

The season for wild kings starts in February, when a small amount of
Columbia River spring chinook are available. Mr. Yoshimura ranks the
Columbia springers, as they are known, with the Yukon kings for taste
and oil content.

Among the Alaska runs, Bristol Bay kings and coho from southeastern
waters around Sitka, are also starting to show up on restaurant plates
outside the state.

Outsiders, a term Alaskans use for anyone who does not live in their
state, sometimes consider diners salmon snobs when they ask a waiter
where a fish comes from, or whether it is net-caught or troll-caught.
This is not out of compassion for the fish. Judging by the way Alaskans
club, hook, cajole or snag salmon during the summer, most residents
could not care less about how a fish died, so long as it ends up on a grill.

The question has to do with how a fish is handled. Net fish can be
mashed in a pile, sometimes resulting in poor texture. Marti Bickford,
who is developing the domestic marketing program for Kwik'pak, said that
the Yukon fishermen have been schooled in handling their catch this
year, to ensure that the fish do not arrive in anything but prime condition.

As for how to cook the fish, true wild salmon lovers prefer grilling
with olive oil and sea salt, skin side first, and then a quick turn on
the flesh side near the end.

Mr. Yoshimura said he likes to poach his Yukon king in water with
ginger, a sprinkling of dried onions, and seaweed or Japanese kelp.

"Then you eat what's left over cold, for breakfast, or in a salad," he
said. "And that's really good."

With the return of Yukon salmon to the lower 48 states, Mr. Yoshimura
has one hope for the run: long live the kings.
--
Alan

"If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the religion, and
avoid the people, you might better stay home."
--James Michener

In rec.food.cooking, alzelt > wrote:

> As an aside, the best way to grill the salmon is to lightly rub on olive
> oil all over. Place the fish skin side down, until almost cooked. Turn
> over to the flesh side, for just a minute or two.

I think you've got it backwards. If you do the skin side first, then the
flesh side, it will be at its maximum fragility when you need it to hold
together. You will be taking it off the grill and trying to flip it over
to the presentation side when it is fully cooked, and is likely to fall
apart.

What I do is to plop the flesh side down on the grill, and cook it until
it releases. Then I rotate it about 60 degrees, and let it cook some
more. This produces beautiful criss-crossing grill marks.

Once the flesh side looks good, I flip it over to the skin side, and move
it to the cool side of the grill. I replace the top, and let it bake
until done. While it is finishing on the cool side, the smoke from the
charcoal further colors the flesh side, until it is a beautiful golden
brown.

When done, it is fairly easy to slip the spaula under the skin and to
carfully remove the fish.

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 02:52:38 GMT, alzelt
> wrote:

> Having never used a fish basket, I have never had my salmon, or other
> firm fish, stick to the grill. Two things to remember: always oil the
> grill; two, never put the fish on the grill until it is hot.


I use a basket (hamburger type - with no sides), not because
of sticking, but because it's easier to turn the fish and
it's not such a big deal getting onto the serving platter.
Otherwise, I agree with all of the above instructions... and
I heat the basket along with the the grill.


Practice safe eating - always use condiments

wrote in message >...
> In rec.food.cooking, Ken > wrote:
>
> > I had some fresh wild salmon and decided to barbeque it. I used a
> > fish grilling basket, the kind with the two pieces that fit together
> > to hold the fish. When the fish was done, it was thoroughly stuck to
> > the basket. I sprayed it with non-stick stuff before grilling.
>
> > Any solutions to this problem? Is it just going to happen? Should I
> > have brushed the thing down with oil to prevent sticking? Help.
>
>
> It will stick no matter what you do if you use a cold basket and cold
> fish. You need to plop the fish down on a HOT grill to sear it.

Everyone, thanks for your responses,

This is just a funny case of trying to improve things and instead they
just get worse. When I bbq fish, which isn't too often, I generally
do fillets right on the grill. (There's a local albacore fisherman
that I get fillets from and they're great on the grill.) But this
time, I had wild salmon steaks and I had this fish basket thing that
never gets used, so I thought I'd use it just to justify having it.
So I used it and everything stuck. The fish tasted great, but I did
end up with some flakes instead of one big piece.

So next time, I guess it's back to just doing it on the grill like I
always do or using a paper towel to oil the basket completely.

Thanks,

Ken

The July/Aug 2004 issue of Cooks Illustrated has an article on grilling
glazed salmon and how to get it not to stick. I didn't read through the
entire article, but the main thing they suggested doing was rubbing the
grill grate with a paper towel dipped in oil. They had less than stellar
results with baskets/lemon slices/oil on fish/cooking spray etc.

NS

"Ken" > wrote in message
...
> wrote in message
>...
> > In rec.food.cooking, Ken > wrote:

>
> Everyone, thanks for your responses,
>
> This is just a funny case of trying to improve things and instead they
> just get worse. When I bbq fish, which isn't too often, I generally
> do fillets right on the grill. (There's a local albacore fisherman
> that I get fillets from and they're great on the grill.) But this
> time, I had wild salmon steaks and I had this fish basket thing that
> never gets used, so I thought I'd use it just to justify having it.
> So I used it and everything stuck. The fish tasted great, but I did
> end up with some flakes instead of one big piece.
>
> So next time, I guess it's back to just doing it on the grill like I
> always do or using a paper towel to oil the basket completely.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken

>So next time, I guess it's back to just doing it on the grill like I
>always do or using a paper towel to oil the basket completely.
>
>Ken

Next time wrap the piece of fish in a single layer of lettuce leaf, do not make
a package, leave the sides open... may not end up with very pronounced grill
marks (can't eat grill marks) but will be more moist than when cooked directly
on the grill and will not fall apart, at all... also whatever seasoning you use
will not dribble/burn off... serve in leaf but peel back top after last flip to
prevent overcooking. Btw, many different types of leaves may be used as wrap
for grilling, the oldest method and still the best. I've attended many a
clambake where I'd wrap a whole gutted fish in seaweed and simply toss it
directly onto the hot coals... needs no seasoning whatsoever, other than
brewski.


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