Some questions about making port
 

I am interested in making a batch of port the non-fortified way (I want
to make it by adding sugar until the alcohol level is high enough). I'm
not interested in a particular recipe as much as in figuring out some
general guidelines for making port out of different types of fruit. By
reading older posts on the subject of port, I gathered the following
information:

"Simplest way to do it is to start with your must around 1.120 using EC
1116, KV 1116 or Premier Cuvee yeast.

When the SG drops to about 1.010, add enough sugar syrup to increase
the SG to 1.020. Do this a couple of times (or until the yeast fails)
and you will be in the alcohol range of about 18 to 20%.

Sweeten it to about 1.020 SG, and either fortify with a brandy or
neutral spirit if desired or bottle it and let it age for a year or
two."


OK, a few questions:

1) What should be a good range of TA before fermentation starts?

2) What about tannin extraction? Is it better to press early or late?

3) Out of curiosity, has anybody ever tried chaptalizing (I think
that's the right term for the gradual addition of sugar) with grape
concentrate instead of just sugar? Good or bad idea? How about using
inverted sugar instead of regular sugar? Does it matter one way or
another?

4) What levels of free SO2 should we have when we bottle it?

Thanks in advance for any comments or suggestions.

Some questions about making port
 

"Franco" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> I am interested in making a batch of port the non-fortified way (I want
> to make it by adding sugar until the alcohol level is high enough). I'm
> not interested in a particular recipe as much as in figuring out some
> general guidelines for making port out of different types of fruit. By
> reading older posts on the subject of port, I gathered the following
> information:
>
> "Simplest way to do it is to start with your must around 1.120 using EC
> 1116, KV 1116 or Premier Cuvee yeast.
>
> When the SG drops to about 1.010, add enough sugar syrup to increase
> the SG to 1.020. Do this a couple of times (or until the yeast fails)
> and you will be in the alcohol range of about 18 to 20%.
>
> Sweeten it to about 1.020 SG, and either fortify with a brandy or
> neutral spirit if desired or bottle it and let it age for a year or
> two."
>
>
> OK, a few questions:
>
> 1) What should be a good range of TA before fermentation starts?

Somewhere around 6 grams per liter for a grape wine.

> 2) What about tannin extraction? Is it better to press early or late?

I normally press at the end of the extended fermentation when using
Zinfandel. But, that might produce too much astringency with grapes
containing lots of tannin.

> 3) Out of curiosity, has anybody ever tried chaptalizing (I think
> that's the right term for the gradual addition of sugar) with grape
> concentrate instead of just sugar? Good or bad idea? How about using
> inverted sugar instead of regular sugar? Does it matter one way or
> another?

I have used concentrate before. It worked OK but didn't seem to provide any
particular benefit. Using inverted sugar or regular sugar (sucrose) makes
little difference. The yeast produce an enzyme that hydrolyses sucrose into
fructose and glucose.

> 4) What levels of free SO2 should we have when we bottle it?

It depends on the style of Port you are trying to produce. If you are
making a tawny Port, then you want some oxidation and would use little or no
SO2. On the other hand, normal amounts of SO2 would be used if you are
producing a ruby Port. At 18 to 20 percent alcohol, the wine will be
biologically stable in any event.

> Thanks in advance for any comments or suggestions.

Good luck with your Port,
Lum
Del Mar, California, USA
www.geocities.com/lumeisenman

Some questions about making port
 

Thanks, Lum. One more question: what is a typical amount of residual
sugar (%) in port wine?



Lum Eisenman wrote:
> "Franco" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > I am interested in making a batch of port the non-fortified way (I want
> > to make it by adding sugar until the alcohol level is high enough). I'm
> > not interested in a particular recipe as much as in figuring out some
> > general guidelines for making port out of different types of fruit. By
> > reading older posts on the subject of port, I gathered the following
> > information:
> >
> > "Simplest way to do it is to start with your must around 1.120 using EC
> > 1116, KV 1116 or Premier Cuvee yeast.
> >
> > When the SG drops to about 1.010, add enough sugar syrup to increase
> > the SG to 1.020. Do this a couple of times (or until the yeast fails)
> > and you will be in the alcohol range of about 18 to 20%.
> >
> > Sweeten it to about 1.020 SG, and either fortify with a brandy or
> > neutral spirit if desired or bottle it and let it age for a year or
> > two."
> >
> >
> > OK, a few questions:
> >
> > 1) What should be a good range of TA before fermentation starts?
>
> Somewhere around 6 grams per liter for a grape wine.
>
> > 2) What about tannin extraction? Is it better to press early or late?
>
> I normally press at the end of the extended fermentation when using
> Zinfandel. But, that might produce too much astringency with grapes
> containing lots of tannin.
>
> > 3) Out of curiosity, has anybody ever tried chaptalizing (I think
> > that's the right term for the gradual addition of sugar) with grape
> > concentrate instead of just sugar? Good or bad idea? How about using
> > inverted sugar instead of regular sugar? Does it matter one way or
> > another?
>
> I have used concentrate before. It worked OK but didn't seem to provide any
> particular benefit. Using inverted sugar or regular sugar (sucrose) makes
> little difference. The yeast produce an enzyme that hydrolyses sucrose into
> fructose and glucose.
>
> > 4) What levels of free SO2 should we have when we bottle it?
>
> It depends on the style of Port you are trying to produce. If you are
> making a tawny Port, then you want some oxidation and would use little or no
> SO2. On the other hand, normal amounts of SO2 would be used if you are
> producing a ruby Port. At 18 to 20 percent alcohol, the wine will be
> biologically stable in any event.
>
> > Thanks in advance for any comments or suggestions.
>
> Good luck with your Port,
> Lum
> Del Mar, California, USA
> www.geocities.com/lumeisenman

Some questions about making port
 

"Franco" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> Thanks, Lum. One more question: what is a typical amount of residual
> sugar (%) in port wine?
>

Franco,
When I was a kid, the standard for California Port was 10 by 20, meaning 10%
RS and 20% alcohol. These days the RS in Port seems to range anywhere from
about 8% to 12%. My experience is that sweeter Ports sell better.

Some questions about making port
 

I have only made port by fortifying so can't answer your questions
beyond what Lum has already done concerning questions that would apply
whether fortified or not.

Just wondering if anyone has tried port made from both methods?
Assuming one used grape brandy to fortify would there be a taste
difference in distilled alcohol vs alcohol produced strictly as a
byproduct of fermentation?

Some questions about making port
 

Thanks for the comments Lum, and Franco I did the search you suggested
and found Jack Keller's comments from 1999 where their club compared
ports made from both methods. Hope Jack doesn't mind me re-posting part
of his post:

"All of these were relatively young ports, 2-6 years old. In
my opinion, the port made without brandy had a much deeper and richer
flavor, while the ports made with brandy fortification were fruitier,
more complex and somewhat more interesting."

Not sure from this which style he actually preferred. Maybe Jack will
see this and comment more.

Some questions about making port
 

Port wine can be made by fortification using different variations.

(1) To minimize the amount of brandy needed, most commercial Port is made
by fermenting a couple of days, running off and then fortifying the liquid.
The juice is exposed to the solids for just a couple of days, so extraction
is limited.
(2) Small producers often ferment for a couple of days, fortify the _must_
and then press a few days later. In this case, the liquid is exposed to the
solids for a much longer time. The alcohol level is high so there is much
more extraction. But, unfortunately, some brandy is discarded with the
pomace.

Note that the second method of making fortified Port more closely duplicates
the extraction conditions that naturally exist when the extended
fermentation method is used.

Lum
Del Mar, California, USA
www.geocities.com/lumeisenman


"miker" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Thanks for the comments Lum, and Franco I did the search you suggested
> and found Jack Keller's comments from 1999 where their club compared
> ports made from both methods. Hope Jack doesn't mind me re-posting part
> of his post:
>
> "All of these were relatively young ports, 2-6 years old. In
> my opinion, the port made without brandy had a much deeper and richer
> flavor, while the ports made with brandy fortification were fruitier,
> more complex and somewhat more interesting."
>
> Not sure from this which style he actually preferred. Maybe Jack will
> see this and comment more.
>

Some questions about making port
 

You are confused, ted.




wrote:
> I hate to be a purist, but, if it is not fortified with neutral spirit
> (from grapes)) it is not Port. It is high alcohol wine.
> ted
>
> Franco wrote:
> > I am interested in making a batch of port the non-fortified way (I want
> > to make it by adding sugar until the alcohol level is high enough). I'm
> > not interested in a particular recipe as much as in figuring out some
> > general guidelines for making port out of different types of fruit. By
> > reading older posts on the subject of port, I gathered the following
> > information:
> >
> > "Simplest way to do it is to start with your must around 1.120 using EC
> > 1116, KV 1116 or Premier Cuvee yeast.
> >
> > When the SG drops to about 1.010, add enough sugar syrup to increase
> > the SG to 1.020. Do this a couple of times (or until the yeast fails)
> > and you will be in the alcohol range of about 18 to 20%.
> >
> > Sweeten it to about 1.020 SG, and either fortify with a brandy or
> > neutral spirit if desired or bottle it and let it age for a year or
> > two."
> >
> >
> > OK, a few questions:
> >
> > 1) What should be a good range of TA before fermentation starts?
> >
> > 2) What about tannin extraction? Is it better to press early or late?
> >
> > 3) Out of curiosity, has anybody ever tried chaptalizing (I think
> > that's the right term for the gradual addition of sugar) with grape
> > concentrate instead of just sugar? Good or bad idea? How about using
> > inverted sugar instead of regular sugar? Does it matter one way or
> > another?
> >
> > 4) What levels of free SO2 should we have when we bottle it?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any comments or suggestions.

Some questions about making port
 

Ted has a point, though IMHO an unnecessarily restrictive one.

The original Port, made in Portugal, was made by fortifying a sweet wine
with distilled grape alcohol, i.e. brandy. Back in those days in
Portugal, there weren't yeasts available that were capable of delivering
18-19% alcohol wines.

In today's understanding, a port wine is more broadly taken to mean a
sweet dessert wine with high alcohol content. We have available yeasts
that can deliver that high alcohol in the primary fermentation. We no
longer have to depend on distilled grape spirits to achieve the desired
product.

Gene

Franco wrote:
> You are confused, ted.
>
>
>
>
> wrote:
>
>>I hate to be a purist, but, if it is not fortified with neutral spirit
>>(from grapes)) it is not Port. It is high alcohol wine.
>>ted
>>
>>Franco wrote:
>>
>>>I am interested in making a batch of port the non-fortified way (I want
>>>to make it by adding sugar until the alcohol level is high enough). I'm
>>>not interested in a particular recipe as much as in figuring out some
>>>general guidelines for making port out of different types of fruit. By
>>>reading older posts on the subject of port, I gathered the following
>>>information:
>>>
>>>"Simplest way to do it is to start with your must around 1.120 using EC
>>>1116, KV 1116 or Premier Cuvee yeast.
>>>
>>>When the SG drops to about 1.010, add enough sugar syrup to increase
>>>the SG to 1.020. Do this a couple of times (or until the yeast fails)
>>>and you will be in the alcohol range of about 18 to 20%.
>>>
>>>Sweeten it to about 1.020 SG, and either fortify with a brandy or
>>>neutral spirit if desired or bottle it and let it age for a year or
>>>two."
>>>
>>>
>>>OK, a few questions:
>>>
>>>1) What should be a good range of TA before fermentation starts?
>>>
>>>2) What about tannin extraction? Is it better to press early or late?
>>>
>>>3) Out of curiosity, has anybody ever tried chaptalizing (I think
>>>that's the right term for the gradual addition of sugar) with grape
>>>concentrate instead of just sugar? Good or bad idea? How about using
>>>inverted sugar instead of regular sugar? Does it matter one way or
>>>another?
>>>
>>>4) What levels of free SO2 should we have when we bottle it?
>>>
>>>Thanks in advance for any comments or suggestions.
>
>