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fryder estates 12-03-2006 07:22 AM

stopping 2nd fermentation
 
Hi
Got a BIG red wine (Shiraz) about 17+% alc.
Still has more than 20 grams ltre residual sugar.
Tried to restart the ferment on numerous occasions with no luck.
Was going to throw the wine away when a group of friends tasted it and raved
about it.
Now want to bottle it for them and guess what?? Bubbles slowly coming
through the fermentation lock.
Used EC1118 yeast on original fermentation so would now probably slowly
ferment dry.
Can't wait for this to happen need the barrel for my new fermentation just
under way.
Want to stop this fermentation from happening.
Wine will be to hot and fiery if it ferments to dryness.
To turbid to sterile filter it.
Wine has gone through Malo.
Anyone got a sure fire way of stopping this fermentation without killing the
taste of the wine???

Bob






Joe Sallustio 12-03-2006 11:25 AM

stopping 2nd fermentation
 
Bob and Charlie,
Sorbate is really not effective on an active fermentation, you have to
stop it first. You may want to chill it as cold as you can get it to
stop the fermentation, rack and then sorbate.

EC1118 is a pretty vigorous strain. It actually likes cold temperature
so get it very cold; below 35 F. You have it pretty close to the
limits, it may be close to starved for nutrient so chilling it could
be effective.

Another option is to pasteurize it but that is tricky. Some do that in
a microwave oven but it's a lot of work and just seems impractical to
me.

Joe


Tom S[_1_] 13-03-2006 12:34 AM

stopping 2nd fermentation
 
"fryder estates" wrote in message
...
Hi
Got a BIG red wine (Shiraz) about 17+% alc.
Still has more than 20 grams ltre residual sugar.
Tried to restart the ferment on numerous occasions with no luck.
Was going to throw the wine away when a group of friends tasted it and
raved
about it.
Now want to bottle it for them and guess what?? Bubbles slowly coming
through the fermentation lock.
Used EC1118 yeast on original fermentation so would now probably slowly
ferment dry.
Can't wait for this to happen need the barrel for my new fermentation just
under way.
Want to stop this fermentation from happening.
Wine will be to hot and fiery if it ferments to dryness.
To turbid to sterile filter it.
Wine has gone through Malo.
Anyone got a sure fire way of stopping this fermentation without killing
the
taste of the wine???


Am I reading this post correctly? Your wine is at 17+% alcohol already, has
20 g/l residual sugar and it's still fermenting?

If it were mine, I think I'd just let the fermentation run its course,
clarify it well after bulk aging and add back sugar to taste if necessary.
This could all be done in kegs if you need that barrel. You needn't worry
about the fermentation re-starting with a sugar addition after the wine is
clarified. I'm surprised that it's still going now.

Whatever you do, don't ruin it with sorbate. That stuff does have a flavor
and that's not a good thing. Besides, as has been pointed out already,
sorbate won't stop an active fermentation. Only deep chilling, running out
of fermentable sugar or an alcohol level higher than the yeast can tolerate
will do that.

Tom S
www.chateauburbank.com



Joe Sallustio 13-03-2006 06:02 PM

stopping 2nd fermentation
 
It does sound like a whole lot of alcohol.

You needn't worry about the fermentation re-starting with a sugar addition after the wine is clarified. I'm surprised that it's still going now.


I have had still reds at bottling at 0.3% RS get 'fizzy' with some time
in the bottle; they were bright and fined with Sparkoloid and had good
sulfite levels per tirettes. It's possible a ML started in the bottle,
it's not like I get any cloudiness, just a little petilance. It is an
annoyance. I'm always at a loss as to where to go with wines that are
'almost' dry per clinitest.

Joe


pp 13-03-2006 06:17 PM

stopping 2nd fermentation
 
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned yet that adding sorbate to wines
that went through an ML is a big no-no as it's a pretty sure way of
ruining your wine past any recovery. ML bacteria in contact with
sorbate will produce a geranium off-odor.

Pp


Droopy 13-03-2006 07:47 PM

stopping 2nd fermentation
 

pp wrote:
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned yet that adding sorbate to wines
that went through an ML is a big no-no as it's a pretty sure way of
ruining your wine past any recovery. ML bacteria in contact with
sorbate will produce a geranium off-odor.

Pp


I thought it was the other way around. That if you sorbate wines and
THEN let them go through MLF they will do that.


Joe Sallustio 13-03-2006 10:11 PM

stopping 2nd fermentation
 
Right, my understanding also. You usually don't do ML on sweeter
wines, you don't usually shoot for complexity, you shoot for fruit.

Joe


Tom S[_1_] 14-03-2006 02:54 PM

stopping 2nd fermentation
 
"pp" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned yet that adding sorbate to wines
that went through an ML is a big no-no as it's a pretty sure way of
ruining your wine past any recovery. ML bacteria in contact with
sorbate will produce a geranium off-odor.


That's not quite right. Running ML on a wine _after_ it has been sorbated
produces the geranium smell.

Tom S
www.chateauburbank.com



pp 14-03-2006 06:04 PM

stopping 2nd fermentation
 

Tom S wrote:
"pp" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned yet that adding sorbate to wines
that went through an ML is a big no-no as it's a pretty sure way of
ruining your wine past any recovery. ML bacteria in contact with
sorbate will produce a geranium off-odor.


That's not quite right. Running ML on a wine _after_ it has been sorbated
produces the geranium smell.

Tom S
www.chateauburbank.com


Ok, I stand corrected, didn't realize the sequence mattered this way,
and it does make sense. But I'd still think there is some danger of the
geranium smell happening when sorbate is added after ML - if the
sulfite level drops down to the point when the ML bacteria become
active again. Although at 17% alcohol that wouldn't be an issue in this
case.

Pp



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