Insane Zinfandel: Starting SG 0.995
 

Evening all-

Just started 35 gallons of wine and have run into a bit of a snag. The
5 gallons of Chilean Zin I purchased hasn't come out of the lag period.

I checked the SG the next morning (it was 2am when we finished...) and
it came out to be 0.995. I found that to be extremely odd- nothing but
pure water and something else to dilute, but...

I've a spare gallon that I would eventually add back, so to this jug I
added a whole packet of reconstituted yeast. Hasn't done anything yet
after 18 hours. Checked the SG of the regular must and it's in at
0.992. Added 20 grams of sugar to my 'starter' to bring the SG up to
1.04 and the yeast has activated, but very sluggish- I'll give it
another day to be sure.

So, in short, and before I approach Mayers to ask them what's going on,
what's going on? My grape must has no sugar? It's already undergone a
fermentation with so little sugar present it's eaten it all up? The
berries were picked 5 months ripe? I have a bucket of red paint?

The Cab has taken off like a rocket (literally turning my brand new
home constructed brewing area into a paintball factory demonstration)
so I'm not worried about anything I may have introduced, but I'm coming
up a total blank on what other tests I can run here.

Suggestions truly welcome.

Jason

Insane Zinfandel: Starting SG 0.995
 

Jason:

Got a vonometer to test the alcohol level??

My guess is that the must fully (or nearly so) fermented before you
got it home.

Steve

Insane Zinfandel: Starting SG 0.995
 

wrote:

>
> So, in short, and before I approach Mayers to ask them what's going on,
> what's going on? My grape must has no sugar? It's already undergone a
> fermentation with so little sugar present it's eaten it all up? The
> berries were picked 5 months ripe? I have a bucket of red paint?

I'll let others with more experience reply with more information - however,
I had a similar problem with Baco must that I purchased. Indeed, it had
already fermented.. by the time I received it, the SG was, I think about
1.004 or something like that.

I tested my hydrometer - it was fine.

I am wondering if you're must has the same issue? The fermentation has
already occurred?

I guess you need to find out what happened to that juice between the time it
was harvested and you received it. How long ago was it harvested? Was it
pasteurized a few days late? Was it supposed to have been pasteurized or
delievered to you as fresh?

Does the vineyard have any record of the SG or Brix of the juice when it was
harvested?

I dunno.. just some thoughts for you.

Ian
http://homewinery.info/blog/

Insane Zinfandel: Starting SG 0.995
 

Jason,

The vinometer idea is a good one.

Is this Mayers Cider Mill In Rochester? If so, it is probably already
fermented out. The owner is a nice guy but he leaves something to be
desired as to keeping juice. I bought a raspberry off him once that
turned out the same way. It was completely done when I got it home and
how in the world do you figure out where a raspberry started SG wise?
I fixed it but it took a year and a half of work, I made it into a
raspberry mead.

If you live anywhere near there how about Walkers in Fredonia? They do
not have the same issues. the website is walkersfruitbasket.com. I
got some Chardonelle, Traminette and Diamond off them and it will be
outstanding.

Joe

Insane Zinfandel: Starting SG 0.995
 

Joe Sallustio wrote:
> Is this Mayers Cider Mill In Rochester? If so, it is probably already
> Joe

Indeed. The juice came in Friday night at 6pm; I purchased it Sat
Morning at 11am. The Chardonay's were boiling in their containers as
well; we chalked it all up to temperature differences. Everything had
what appeared to be significant amounts of dissolved CO2. I didn't
have the time to run a free SO2 test on them.

This is going to be a very dissapointing year if everything has already
started fermenting. I went to the site you suggested but they didn't
have any Zin listed, nor any Cab Franc. Do they have other available
choices?

Jason

Insane Zinfandel: Starting SG 0.995
 

If it's got alcohol in it, it doesn't smell/taste it. I'll grab the
little pipette tonight and run a test on it.

Jason

Insane Zinfandel: Starting SG 0.995
 

No luck.

It's been 3 days since I started the Zin and it hasn't moved. I've
used yeast nutrient, extra yeast, energizer. Nothing's worked.

Dave of Mayers tested a sample of the wine and told my wife that it
still had 8% RS.... at a SG of 0.992. That's a bit confusing for me,
but hey- I'm new and I don't know anything. If I'm doing the math
right then the finished product should have an SG of around 0.93?
Assuming I can get it running.

The 'starter' sample I pulled out I added enough sugar to take the SG
up to 1.06 and THAT started fermenting.

Anyone got a clue what the heck is going on? At what point should I
stop pumping in cash into this 5 gallons and just dump it?

*sigh*

Cab Sauv: 1.08 SG, fermenting fine.
Chardonnay: 1.08 SG, fermenting fine
Zin: 0.992 SG, still and dead.


Ian Scott wrote:
> wrote:
>
> >
> > So, in short, and before I approach Mayers to ask them what's going on,

Insane Zinfandel: Starting SG 0.995
 

wrote:
> No luck.
>
> It's been 3 days since I started the Zin and it hasn't moved. I've
> used yeast nutrient, extra yeast, energizer. Nothing's worked.
>
> Dave of Mayers tested a sample of the wine and told my wife that it
> still had 8% RS.... at a SG of 0.992. That's a bit confusing for me,
> but hey- I'm new and I don't know anything. If I'm doing the math
> right then the finished product should have an SG of around 0.93?
> Assuming I can get it running.
>
> The 'starter' sample I pulled out I added enough sugar to take the SG
> up to 1.06 and THAT started fermenting.
>
> Anyone got a clue what the heck is going on? At what point should I
> stop pumping in cash into this 5 gallons and just dump it?
>
> *sigh*
>
> Cab Sauv: 1.08 SG, fermenting fine.
> Chardonnay: 1.08 SG, fermenting fine
> Zin: 0.992 SG, still and dead.

0.992 means a finished wine that's fermented completely to dryness, so
adding yeast, nutrient, etc. won't make any difference. If you add
sugar, then of course you'll see some fermentation signs but assuming
you're not trying to make port out of this, there is no need to add any
sugar.

I don't know how the 8% residual sugar number was measured but that's
impossible if the sg reading is correct. In any case, you should be
able to taste this clearly - both the alcohol and/or any sugar left.
When in doubt with numbers, trust your senses.

If you're dealing with finished fermentation, no need to dump the wine.
Just sulfite it and rack it into a carboy to protect it from air. Then
taste it in 2 months or so to see where you are.

Pp

Insane Zinfandel: Starting SG 0.995
 

I took the grape must back to Mayers Cider Mill and the owner, Dave,
tested it. He told my wife that there was still 8% RS left in the
must, but (what started this) is that I received the must with a
starting SG of 0.995. I've since added everything but Draino in hopes
of restarting it. It doesn't taste alcoholic and it doesn't taste
sweet. I started a Cab at the same time and it weighed in at 1.08
SG... so I swear it's not my hydrometer (and yes, that juice was sweet
and slightly tangy). So, according to Dave, in less than 1 day my wine
fermented to dryness...

I should probably just order another 20L of Zin and pop the lid right
at the store. If the hydrometer reading is anything other than 1.08 or
higher refuse it... and if it IS 1.08 then I'll know for certain I was
sold spoiled goods.

Then again, I guess I could just go thru the CC company too since I'm
not making any progress, but then again I wouldn't ever be welcome back
at that store again...

Insane Zinfandel: Starting SG 0.995
 

If you're fermenting to dryness in a day, culture me some of the yeast from
that batch when you rack it off the lees. :)

Joel

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> I took the grape must back to Mayers Cider Mill and the owner, Dave,
> tested it. He told my wife that there was still 8% RS left in the
> must, but (what started this) is that I received the must with a
> starting SG of 0.995. I've since added everything but Draino in hopes
> of restarting it. It doesn't taste alcoholic and it doesn't taste
> sweet. I started a Cab at the same time and it weighed in at 1.08
> SG... so I swear it's not my hydrometer (and yes, that juice was sweet
> and slightly tangy). So, according to Dave, in less than 1 day my wine
> fermented to dryness...
>
> I should probably just order another 20L of Zin and pop the lid right
> at the store. If the hydrometer reading is anything other than 1.08 or
> higher refuse it... and if it IS 1.08 then I'll know for certain I was
> sold spoiled goods.
>
> Then again, I guess I could just go thru the CC company too since I'm
> not making any progress, but then again I wouldn't ever be welcome back
> at that store again...
>

Insane Zinfandel: Starting SG 0.995
 

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>I took the grape must back to Mayers Cider Mill and the owner, Dave,
> tested it. He told my wife that there was still 8% RS left in the
> must, but (what started this) is that I received the must with a
> starting SG of 0.995. I've since added everything but Draino in hopes
> of restarting it. It doesn't taste alcoholic and it doesn't taste
> sweet.

There's no way that juice with 8% RS wouldn't taste quite sweet. You have
dry wine on your hands, but I'd expect it to taste at least _somewhat_
alcoholic. Maybe it got diluted somewhere along the way.

I'd take it back.

Tom S

Insane Zinfandel: Starting SG 0.995
 

Ian - Dave says it has 8% sugar...this would be about specific gravity 1.032
and like Tom says, the wine should taste sweet. Sounds like it was
fermented before you even bought it.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>I took the grape must back to Mayers Cider Mill and the owner, Dave,
> tested it. He told my wife that there was still 8% RS left in the
> must, but (what started this) is that I received the must with a
> starting SG of 0.995.

> I should probably just order another 20L of Zin and pop the lid right
> at the store. If the hydrometer reading is anything other than 1.08 or
> higher refuse it... and if it IS 1.08 then I'll know for certain I was
> sold spoiled goods.

Insane Zinfandel: Starting SG 0.995
 

Dave is wrong, period. I would not suggest you buy anything off of
someone who has a hydrometer reading less that1.000 in must and tells
you it's at 8% RS. Maybe 0.8% is possible but I don't buy that if you
read 0.992; it's not 8%. As to Zin and Walkers, it not grown in that
area; try Presque Isle in North East PA, it's about 35 miles west of
Walkers.

Joe

Insane Zinfandel: Starting SG 0.995
 

Joe Sallustio wrote:
> Dave is wrong, period. I would not suggest you buy anything off of
> someone who has a hydrometer reading less that1.000 in must and tells
> you it's at 8% RS.

Maybe he didn't use a hydrometer. If he mistakenly used a refractometer
on a must that was completely fermented, I think he would end up with a
reading of around Brix = 8.

Andy

Insane Zinfandel: Starting SG 0.995
 

JEP62 wrote:
> Joe Sallustio wrote:
> > Dave is wrong, period. I would not suggest you buy anything off of
> > someone who has a hydrometer reading less that1.000 in must and tells
> > you it's at 8% RS.
>
> Maybe he didn't use a hydrometer. If he mistakenly used a refractometer
> on a must that was completely fermented, I think he would end up with a
> reading of around Brix = 8.
>
> Andy

Yep, you've nailed it, Andy. Here is the table from Valley Vintner,
relating refractometer with hydrometer measurements:

http://www.valleyvintner.com/Refrac_...Experiment.pdf

Pp

Insane Zinfandel: Starting SG 0.995
 

Nice link, very interesting work.

That makes sense but who uses a refractometer on fermenting must? It's
my understanding that is bad practice for the reasons this graph
illustrates. I guess you could look at the sample size as a
justification, but clinitest is cheap and idiot proof. That's what I
use if the hyrdometer is at 1.000 or below.

I have bought mostly fermented juice from other suppliers but I knew it
was that way, they told me before money changed hands. I made a very
nice Gewurz that way. Reds are another matter, I bought Sangiovese
(like an idiot) at the same time and all that is going to be good for
is vinegar. (It will be good vinegar and saves my good wine for it's
intended purpose.)

Thanks for the info, it's a keeper.

Joe

> > Maybe he didn't use a hydrometer. If he mistakenly used a refractometer
> > on a must that was completely fermented, I think he would end up with a
> > reading of around Brix = 8.
> >
> > Andy
>
> Yep, you've nailed it, Andy. Here is the table from Valley Vintner,
> relating refractometer with hydrometer measurements:
>
> http://www.valleyvintner.com/Refrac_...Experiment.pdf
>
> Pp

Insane Zinfandel: Starting SG 0.995
 

Resolution:

Dave swapped out my 20L for 5 gallons of fresh pressed Zin must. When
I returned home, I checked the SG as 1.085 @ 53F and it tasted sweet
and clear.

Yeast, Nutrient, and the next day it's chugging along at 64F and
fermenting quite nicely.

Dave tasted the juice I brought back and said it was still grape juice.
He insisted it was just a stuck fermentation. Having added 3 packets
of yeast to this 5 gallons with nutrient and DAP, I'll believe him and
just chalk it up as a 'bad experience' for me.

When I put the 'juice' I returned in my refractometer it said 14.5%
alcohol and the SG was 0.990. This was the same sample that Dave
tested at 8% RS.

Either way, I'm happy now. Another fermentation off to a roaring start
(this one didn't spackle the ceiling tho, I'm grateful). Now to build
an insulated heated brewing booth...

Jason

Insane Zinfandel: Starting SG 0.995
 

Great, I'm glad it was resolved to your satisfaction.

If you want to warm it up you can just use a heating pad and a few
towels or a blanket. Eckerd still sells a regular heating pad that
does not have an automatic timed shutoff; they are getting harder to
find. I use old belts to hold it onto the carboy.

If you make wine long enough you will spackle something, you just got
it over with early this time... :o)

Joe