I have 3 batches going, added yeast on Sunday.
1 is a 2gallon apple and pear, using K1-V1116 it is foaming nicely but
has a very funny smell. My wife says rotten, I say just a very strong
alcohol.

2 is a 1gal sumac (may be high in tannin) has no foam. A small sample
placed in a glass yesterday had small bubbles, like soda.

3 is a 1 quart banana trial. no foam either. just small bubbles.

I used 71B-1122 on 2 and 3. Both have a funny smell, almost a rotten
egg smell, but there is also a hint of working yeast and alcohol.

I've only made one apple batch prior to these. and it smeledl much
better than these. Any suggestions, does 71B-1122 hardly foam?
Stu

Stu Pedaso wrote:
> I have 3 batches going, added yeast on Sunday.
> 1 is a 2gallon apple and pear, using K1-V1116 it is foaming nicely but
> has a very funny smell. My wife says rotten, I say just a very strong
> alcohol.
>
> 2 is a 1gal sumac (may be high in tannin) has no foam. A small sample
> placed in a glass yesterday had small bubbles, like soda.
>
> 3 is a 1 quart banana trial. no foam either. just small bubbles.
>
> I used 71B-1122 on 2 and 3. Both have a funny smell, almost a rotten
> egg smell, but there is also a hint of working yeast and alcohol.
>
> I've only made one apple batch prior to these. and it smeledl much
> better than these. Any suggestions, does 71B-1122 hardly foam?
> Stu

You have come down with the dreaded Hydrogen Sulfide disease my friend!
Hydrogen Sulfide forms during fermentation when there is an excess of
Sulfur present on the grapes due to late spraying to prevent mildew, or
there are certain critical nutrients missing or in short supply in the
grapes. It has plagued winemakers since ancient times, and can be
sometimes difficult to deal with even today. Leaving especially whites
on the gross lees too long can cause this condition as well. I am still
learning how to deal with this, I discovered I had this problem in a big
way on my Chardonnay when I did the first racking. Phew! It was so
strong my eyes watered.

First, the bad news: If you don't deal with this problem quickly, you
might as well dump the wine down the sewer. What happens is that if the
H2S remains dissolved in the wine, it will react with Alcohol to form
Mercaptans, which in turn will form disulfides and polydisulfides, which
are almost impossible to remove from the finished wine.

The good news is, if you catch the problem early you can probably save
the wine. Hydrogen Sulfide is present as a gas in solution in the wine.
By just aerating it, you will remove much of the gas, but you also will
have to deal with the Mercaptans that are already forming in the wine.
I Googled for information on this topic, and came up with these links,
along with several other good links that concisely explain the problem,
and how to deal with it:

http://www.sdaws.org/Articles/Article4.htm
http://www.grapestompers.com/article...en_sulfide.htm
http://www.bcawa.ca/winemaking/h2s.htm

The other poster is absolutely correct in what they have to say about the
rotten egg smell and grape wines, but the original poster is making wines
from fruit. I've smelled some pretty odd things from my fruit and veggie
wines, but the bad smells go away pretty quickly (within a few hours) and
then they smell okay. I guess I would do what poster says if the smells
persist more than a few hours. Sometimes its hard to tell the difference
between a rotten smell and strong alcohol smell when one doesn't have much
experience. Maybe someone who has made both kinds of wine (grapes and fruit)
could comment.
Darlene

"Bruce_Nolte_N3LSY&" > wrote in message
...
> Stu Pedaso wrote:
>> I have 3 batches going, added yeast on Sunday. 1 is a 2gallon apple and
>> pear, using K1-V1116 it is foaming nicely but
>> has a very funny smell. My wife says rotten, I say just a very strong
>> alcohol. 2 is a 1gal sumac (may be high in tannin) has no foam. A small
>> sample
>> placed in a glass yesterday had small bubbles, like soda.
>>
>> 3 is a 1 quart banana trial. no foam either. just small bubbles.
>>
>> I used 71B-1122 on 2 and 3. Both have a funny smell, almost a rotten
>> egg smell, but there is also a hint of working yeast and alcohol.
>>
>> I've only made one apple batch prior to these. and it smeledl much
>> better than these. Any suggestions, does 71B-1122 hardly foam?
>> Stu
>
> You have come down with the dreaded Hydrogen Sulfide disease my friend!
> Hydrogen Sulfide forms during fermentation when there is an excess of
> Sulfur present on the grapes due to late spraying to prevent mildew, or
> there are certain critical nutrients missing or in short supply in the
> grapes. It has plagued winemakers since ancient times, and can be
> sometimes difficult to deal with even today. Leaving especially whites on
> the gross lees too long can cause this condition as well. I am still
> learning how to deal with this, I discovered I had this problem in a big
> way on my Chardonnay when I did the first racking. Phew! It was so strong
> my eyes watered.
>
> First, the bad news: If you don't deal with this problem quickly, you
> might as well dump the wine down the sewer. What happens is that if the
> H2S remains dissolved in the wine, it will react with Alcohol to form
> Mercaptans, which in turn will form disulfides and polydisulfides, which
> are almost impossible to remove from the finished wine.
>
> The good news is, if you catch the problem early you can probably save the
> wine. Hydrogen Sulfide is present as a gas in solution in the wine. By
> just aerating it, you will remove much of the gas, but you also will have
> to deal with the Mercaptans that are already forming in the wine.
> I Googled for information on this topic, and came up with these links,
> along with several other good links that concisely explain the problem,
> and how to deal with it:
>
> http://www.sdaws.org/Articles/Article4.htm
> http://www.grapestompers.com/article...en_sulfide.htm
> http://www.bcawa.ca/winemaking/h2s.htm

> Hydrogen Sulfide forms during fermentation when there is an excess of
> Sulfur present on the grapes due to late spraying to prevent mildew, or

nice try, but the poster said he is using pears and apples not grapes.

I once in a while get whiff of something "off" but usually the second whiff
is ok, as are subsequent whiffs.


--

Sometimes you'll get odd smells that aren't the dreaded hydrogen
sulfide, especially with fruits other than grapes. It appears that
you're still in the primary, so try to whip some air into these
batches. It will help the yeast take off, and remove some H2S that may
be forming. Another thing to try is to add some yeast nutrient. If
you want to see real foaming, you should add activator as well as
nutrient.

| The possible causes of hydrogen sulfide contamination a

* Too much sulfites, usually the result of grapes being dusted
with too much sulfur during the growing season
* Lack of proper nutrients (nitrogen, yeast hulls) during
fermentation
* Yeast combining with various forms of sulfur (some folks swear
that Red Star Montrachet yeast is notorious for causing H2S, but we've
never experienced this ourselves)
* Bacterial contamination due to poor sanitation technique
|

I'm not using grapes, and I doubt what I am using was sprayed.
I washed eveything before hand. I'm thinking it's a lack of nitrogen
or the yeast. I only used one packet of yeast and split it between the
two batches. Of course it could still be a contamination problem.

I added 1 campden tablet, and 1 tsp of yeast nutrient (with other
ingedients) the day before adding the yeast. I have no idea if my
nutrient has DAP.

One site says "Do not add DAP at the beginning of fermentation, as it
will overpower the yeast which has not yet had enough time to multiply
to full activity." and another says "A common cause of stinking
fermentations is a lack of nitrogen, and mild cases of H2S can often
be cured by adding a small quantity of DAP to the fermentation."

I'll tried the aeration last night, and added some nutrient. Don't
have a sulfide test kit, or any ascorbic acid or copper sulphate.

It smells better today, but still has a smell. Not so much a rotten
egg, now it's more of a whiskey smell. I'm not sure what to think.

The red sumac color is now more orangish.
Stu



On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 21:56:32 -0400, Bruce_Nolte_N3LSY& >
wrote:


>You have come down with the dreaded Hydrogen Sulfide disease my friend!
>Hydrogen Sulfide forms during fermentation when there is an excess of
>Sulfur present on the grapes due to late spraying to prevent mildew, or
>there are certain critical nutrients missing or in short supply in the
>grapes. It has plagued winemakers since ancient times, and can be
>sometimes difficult to deal with even today. Leaving especially whites
>on the gross lees too long can cause this condition as well. I am still
>learning how to deal with this, I discovered I had this problem in a big
>way on my Chardonnay when I did the first racking. Phew! It was so
>strong my eyes watered.
>
>First, the bad news: If you don't deal with this problem quickly, you
>might as well dump the wine down the sewer. What happens is that if the
>H2S remains dissolved in the wine, it will react with Alcohol to form
>Mercaptans, which in turn will form disulfides and polydisulfides, which
>are almost impossible to remove from the finished wine.
>
>The good news is, if you catch the problem early you can probably save
>the wine. Hydrogen Sulfide is present as a gas in solution in the wine.
>By just aerating it, you will remove much of the gas, but you also will
>have to deal with the Mercaptans that are already forming in the wine.
>I Googled for information on this topic, and came up with these links,
>along with several other good links that concisely explain the problem,
>and how to deal with it:
>
>http://www.sdaws.org/Articles/Article4.htm
>http://www.grapestompers.com/article...en_sulfide.htm
>http://www.bcawa.ca/winemaking/h2s.htm

>> Too much sulfites, usually the result of grapes being dusted
>> with too much sulfur during the growing season

Well, that should be sulfur powder, and not sulfites in that sentence.
Which is what grapes are dusted with to prevent mold from growing.
Probably not the case with your fruits, but you never know, they
somehow gotta keep those fruits from molding as well. There are other
sources of sulfur, for example, proteins in the must may be digested by
the yeast to release sulfur, H2S is how yeast gets rid of excess sulfur
in its diet.

>> It smells better today, but still has a smell. Not so much a
>> rotten egg, now it's more of a whiskey smell. I'm not sure what to think.

Right here, its sounding less like H2S, and more like a general sort-of
wierd solventy smell. That is typical, for example, my current batch
of hard cider smells like that, with just a hint of rotten -- not
rotten egg, not rotten fruit really, somewhere in between. I'm not
worried about my cider, this will pass. My berry port didn't do this,
but I figure just because the smell was masked by the fruit smell.

>> The red sumac color is now more orangish.
Yeah, that'll happen. Often, if the source of juice isn't grape, the
color fades in even moderate light, or drops out in the lees, even if
kept in the dark. Not a lot you can do about that.

Dar V wrote:
> The other poster is absolutely correct in what they have to say about the
> rotten egg smell and grape wines, but the original poster is making wines
> from fruit. I've smelled some pretty odd things from my fruit and veggie
> wines, but the bad smells go away pretty quickly (within a few hours) and
> then they smell okay. I guess I would do what poster says if the smells
> persist more than a few hours. Sometimes its hard to tell the difference
> between a rotten smell and strong alcohol smell when one doesn't have much
> experience. Maybe someone who has made both kinds of wine (grapes and fruit)
> could comment.
> Darlene
>
> "Bruce_Nolte_N3LSY&" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Stu Pedaso wrote:
>>
>>>I have 3 batches going, added yeast on Sunday. 1 is a 2gallon apple and
>>>pear, using K1-V1116 it is foaming nicely but
>>>has a very funny smell. My wife says rotten, I say just a very strong
>>>alcohol. 2 is a 1gal sumac (may be high in tannin) has no foam. A small
>>>sample
>>>placed in a glass yesterday had small bubbles, like soda.
>>>
>>>3 is a 1 quart banana trial. no foam either. just small bubbles.
>>>
>>> I used 71B-1122 on 2 and 3. Both have a funny smell, almost a rotten
>>>egg smell, but there is also a hint of working yeast and alcohol.
>>>
>>>I've only made one apple batch prior to these. and it smeledl much
>>>better than these. Any suggestions, does 71B-1122 hardly foam?
>>>Stu
>>
>>You have come down with the dreaded Hydrogen Sulfide disease my friend!
>>Hydrogen Sulfide forms during fermentation when there is an excess of
>>Sulfur present on the grapes due to late spraying to prevent mildew, or
>>there are certain critical nutrients missing or in short supply in the
>>grapes. It has plagued winemakers since ancient times, and can be
>>sometimes difficult to deal with even today. Leaving especially whites on
>>the gross lees too long can cause this condition as well. I am still
>>learning how to deal with this, I discovered I had this problem in a big
>>way on my Chardonnay when I did the first racking. Phew! It was so strong
>>my eyes watered.
>>
>>First, the bad news: If you don't deal with this problem quickly, you
>>might as well dump the wine down the sewer. What happens is that if the
>>H2S remains dissolved in the wine, it will react with Alcohol to form
>>Mercaptans, which in turn will form disulfides and polydisulfides, which
>>are almost impossible to remove from the finished wine.
>>
>>The good news is, if you catch the problem early you can probably save the
>>wine. Hydrogen Sulfide is present as a gas in solution in the wine. By
>>just aerating it, you will remove much of the gas, but you also will have
>>to deal with the Mercaptans that are already forming in the wine.
>>I Googled for information on this topic, and came up with these links,
>>along with several other good links that concisely explain the problem,
>>and how to deal with it:
>>
>>http://www.sdaws.org/Articles/Article4.htm
>>http://www.grapestompers.com/article...en_sulfide.htm
>>http://www.bcawa.ca/winemaking/h2s.htm
>
Fermentation of peaches, apples, pears, and so on work with pretty much
the same chemistry as grapes. Sulfur occurs to varying degrees in just
about everything we eat. Fruit trees themselves have many of the same
issues with powdery mold as grapes, in some cases even worse. They are
dealt with the same way by an application of lime-sulfur spray just like
grapes by the orchard men. It wouldn't be surprising to see H2S form in
fruit wines as well.