I am almost ready to begin making two gallons of blackcurrant and
beetroot wine as previously discussed in this group and using many of
the suggestions given. When the mash of fruit, boiled root and grape
juice concentrate are ready I shall be adding sugar and water to bring
the volume up to two gallons and the initial SG to 1.080. Can I work out
how much sugar is needed by taking a reading of the mash prior to adding
it and should I boil the sugar in water first to add it as (?)sucrose?
TIA
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

Alan-
I would figure on around 2 lbs (a bit less than one kilo) of sugar
per gallon as a starting point, assuming you are starting with plain
water. You'll probably need to adjust from there, but that ought to get
you somewhere near the right level. So if your initial S.G. is, say
1.020, you're already 1/4 of the way to 1.080, so add 3/4 of a kilo of
sugar, then fine tune based on the S.G. readings. Personally, I
wouldn't bother boiling the sugar. The yeast are just as happy dealing
with it however it comes.

Doug

You could...I have tried in the past.

The big problem I have had is that the sugar will increase the volume
of the mash....so make sure to add water to your final volume....do not
add water and then try to raise the gravity with sugar.

Basically what I do now is take the gravity reading, figure on sugar
adding .046 points per pound per gallon then figure out what i would
need to make x gallons at x gravity....add the sugar and then add the
water.

Of course you may want to overshoot the final volume to compensate for
pulp/lees Otherwise you will have to top up later and may dillute the
wine out too much then.

In article .com>, Doug
> writes
>Alan-
> I would figure on around 2 lbs (a bit less than one kilo) of sugar
>per gallon as a starting point, assuming you are starting with plain
>water. You'll probably need to adjust from there, but that ought to get
>you somewhere near the right level. So if your initial S.G. is, say
>1.020, you're already 1/4 of the way to 1.080, so add 3/4 of a kilo of
>sugar, then fine tune based on the S.G. readings. Personally, I
>wouldn't bother boiling the sugar. The yeast are just as happy dealing
>with it however it comes.
>
Thanks Doug -and Droopy. I started the wine today. The two gallons of
mash with water measured 1.035 SG before adding sugar. I put in a
further 3 lb of sugar, which took it to 1.090. I calculate final alcohol
level of about 12-12.5 % when it has fermented to dry. Then I will add
Campden tablets and Potassium Sorbate, plus sweetener if it seems to
need it.

I will be looking at 'Autumn Reds' next, i.e variations based on
blackberry and elderberry. We have masses of sloes on our bushes too
this year, does anyone have a wine recipe for those?

Thanks again all and CHEERS!
--
Alan Gould. North Lincolnshire, UK.

Jack Keller (of course) has a recipie on his site. He also has recipies
for elderberries and blackberries I believe.

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/sloe.asp

His recipies are very well constructed and make very good wines.

Alan,
I don't know if you need that sorbate if it's ends up dry.

Joe

In article . com>, Joe
Sallustio > writes
>Alan,
>I don't know if you need that sorbate if it's ends up dry.
>
Thanks. I'll check Doug's message about Sorbate.
--
Alan Gould. North Lincolnshire, UK.

In message >, Alan Gould
> writes
>I will be looking at 'Autumn Reds' next, i.e variations based on
>blackberry and elderberry. We have masses of sloes on our bushes
>too this year, does anyone have a wine recipe for those?

Here's mine - makes 3 gallons:

9 lbs Sloes (frozen)
21 pints boiling water
9lbs sugar
More sugar later.
3 tins red concentrate
Campdens, pectolase, Vitamin B, yeast nutrient.

Unfreeze sloes, pour on 3 pints water, mash. Add 9 lbs sugar, and red
concentrate, throw in the rest of the water and 3 crushed campdens, stir
like heck, and leave to cool. Add pectolase, cover and leave 24 hours.

Add Vitamin B and yeast nutrient, add more sugar to take the SG up to
about 1100. Add the yeast - I generally use a Burgundy yeast. Stir twice
a day for 10 days - 2 weeks. Rack in to secondary. Rack again after it's
finished working, and leave it for 6 months or so before bottling. It'll
come out about 13 - 13.5%.

You can use chopped raisins in place of the red grape concentrate - ½lb
per can of concentrate, but I found it to be more hassle than I could be
bothered with. If you pick the sloes early, the result will be rather
thin and sharp, so probably best to wait till mid-late September.

cheers,
robin
--
www.newforestartgallery.co.uk
www.badminston.demon.co.uk www.robinsomes.co.uk
www.amazonian-fish.co.uk www.pisces-conservation.com
www.irchouse.demon.co.uk www.blackwell-science.com/southwood
Trust me, I'm a webmaster...

Robin Somes wrote:
> In message >, Alan Gould
> > writes
>
>>I will be looking at 'Autumn Reds' next, i.e variations based on
>>blackberry and elderberry. We have masses of sloes on our bushes
>>too this year, does anyone have a wine recipe for those?
>
>
> Here's mine - makes 3 gallons:
>
> 9 lbs Sloes (frozen)
> 21 pints boiling water
> 9lbs sugar
> More sugar later.
> 3 tins red concentrate
> Campdens, pectolase, Vitamin B, yeast nutrient.
>
> Unfreeze sloes, pour on 3 pints water, mash. Add 9 lbs sugar, and red
> concentrate, throw in the rest of the water and 3 crushed campdens, stir
> like heck, and leave to cool. Add pectolase, cover and leave 24 hours.
>
> Add Vitamin B and yeast nutrient, add more sugar to take the SG up to
> about 1100. Add the yeast - I generally use a Burgundy yeast. Stir twice
> a day for 10 days - 2 weeks. Rack in to secondary. Rack again after it's
> finished working, and leave it for 6 months or so before bottling. It'll
> come out about 13 - 13.5%.
>
> You can use chopped raisins in place of the red grape concentrate - ½lb
> per can of concentrate, but I found it to be more hassle than I could be
> bothered with. If you pick the sloes early, the result will be rather
> thin and sharp, so probably best to wait till mid-late September.
>
> cheers,
> robin

for some of us "slow" yanks, what's a sloe?

Sloes are the small, dark blue berries of the Blackthorn tree (or large
bush). They are the flavoring in Sloe Gin. They apparently are fairly
common in the British Isles. I suppose someone must grow them in the
US as well, but I have never run across them. But then, where I live
(Minnesota) they probably wouldn't survive the winters.

Doug

In article . com>, Doug
> writes
>Sloes are the small, dark blue berries of the Blackthorn tree (or large
>bush). They are the flavoring in Sloe Gin. They apparently are fairly
>common in the British Isles. I suppose someone must grow them in the
>US as well, but I have never run across them. But then, where I live
>(Minnesota) they probably wouldn't survive the winters.
>
We have masses of them in our hedges and this year seems to be a
particularly prolific one for them. The blackthorn (Prunus spinosa) is a
very hardy tree and it survives the harshest of UK winters. I wondered
if it is the same or similar to the Bitter Berry Tree in the song
'Looking for Henry Lee'? Sloes are very bitter indeed until after winter
frosts, which is when wild birds will begin to take them. As you say,
their most popular use is for colouring and flavouring Gin to make it
into Pink Gin. I have found that they preserve very well when pickled in
vinegar. That way they lose all bitterness in taste and develop a
delicious tangy plum flavour. They can be used as an alternative to
olives, which are very difficult to grow in UK.

Your note on sorbate refers to 'residual sugar'. Was that meant to
indicate unfermented sugar or added wine sweetener?
--
Alan Gould. North Lincolnshire, UK.

Sloe gin may very welll be "pink" but it is Sloe Gin not Pink Gin.

Pink gin is an invention ( or adaptation ) of the Royal Navy many many years
ago and is made by the addition of Angostura Bitters to a gin "in the
glass". Angostura Bitters was first made in Venezuela in 1830 and now
originates from Trinidad and, at 44.7% abv, with its own very distinctive
flavours, can also be used as a condiment to enhance soups and casseroles.
But a pink gin remains a firm favourite of mine with neat gin and lots of
ice.

There is also an alternative called a "Burnt Pink Gin" where a few dashes of
bitters is splashed into an empty balloon shaped, warm glass and swirled
around to coat the sides of the glass and then it is ignited by a lighted
taper or match. The alcohol in the bitters is burnt of rapidly and the
remains coat the sides of the glass into which a chilled gin is added ---
but I consider this to be an aberation and certainly spoils the flavour.

My understanding in why it became so popular in the Royal Navy ( and
presumeably merchant shipping as well) is that it was added to disguise the
taste of ships water. Another explanation is that it was used medicinally
and gin was added to it to disguise the taste! I favour the former
explanation since ships water, from wooden casks would certainly spoil the
flavour of Plymouth Gin -- hence the addition of Angostura bitters.

"Alan Gould" > wrote in message
...
> In article . com>, Doug
> > writes
.. As you say,
> their most popular use is for colouring and flavouring Gin to make it
> into Pink Gin.
> --
> Alan Gould. North Lincolnshire, UK.

In message . com>, Doug
> writes
>Sloes are the small, dark blue berries of the Blackthorn tree (or large
>bush). They are the flavoring in Sloe Gin. They apparently are fairly
>common in the British Isles. I suppose someone must grow them in the
>US as well, but I have never run across them. But then, where I live
>(Minnesota) they probably wouldn't survive the winters.

They're an introduced species in the US, and are recorded in
Connecticut, Idaho, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri,
New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Tennessee and
Washington. They're regarded as invasive in Oregon.

<http://plants.usda.gov/cgi_bin/topic...le.cgi&symbol=
PRSP>
and
<http://www.ibiblio.org/pfaf/cgi-bin/arr_html?Prunus+spinosa&CAN=LATIND>

will tell the OP more, as will:

<http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=prunus%20spinosa>

cheers,
robin

--
www.newforestartgallery.co.uk
www.badminston.demon.co.uk www.robinsomes.co.uk
www.amazonian-fish.co.uk www.pisces-conservation.com
www.irchouse.demon.co.uk www.blackwell-science.com/southwood
Trust me, I'm a webmaster...

Alan -
I guess what I mean by "residual sugar" is any fermentable sugar in
a wine, after the initial fermentation has stopped. It doesn't really
matter to the yeast whether the sugar is there because fermentation
stopped a bit early for some reason, or because you added something
after the initial fermentation completed. If there is fermentable
sugar in the wine (and you have't fortified it with spirits up to, say,
18% or more alcohol), then there is a risk of renewed fermentation. If
you don't want renewed fermentation (you want it if you're making
sparkling wine, like Champagne, but not otherwise) then you need to do
something to prevent fermentation from starting up again. Commercial
winemakers can use filters that remove all the yeast cells, and bottle
in a sufficiently sterile environment that the risk is minimal. For
home winemakers, that approach normally isn't feasible, so the simplest
and easiest approach is to use sorbate.

I don't often sweeten my wines, so I don't use the commercial wine
sweetening or "wine conditioner" products. I gather that some of them
contain sorbates as well as sugar or glycerin or whatever. In those
instances where I do want to sweeten a wine, I want to make sure there
is enough sorbate, so I add that separately, then add table sugar
(slowly) to taste. The commercial products may work well in some
situations; my concern about relying solely on the sorbate included
with a "wine sweetener" product is that adding just a small amount to
the wine might result in a sorbate level that is too low to be
effective.

Doug

In article .com>, Doug
> writes
>Alan -
> I guess what I mean by "residual sugar" is any fermentable sugar in
>a wine, after the initial fermentation has stopped. It doesn't really
>matter to the yeast whether the sugar is there because fermentation
>stopped a bit early for some reason, or because you added something
>after the initial fermentation completed. If there is fermentable
>sugar in the wine (and you have't fortified it with spirits up to, say,
>18% or more alcohol), then there is a risk of renewed fermentation. If
>you don't want renewed fermentation (you want it if you're making
>sparkling wine, like Champagne, but not otherwise) then you need to do
>something to prevent fermentation from starting up again. Commercial
>winemakers can use filters that remove all the yeast cells, and bottle
>in a sufficiently sterile environment that the risk is minimal. For
>home winemakers, that approach normally isn't feasible, so the simplest
>and easiest approach is to use sorbate.
>
> I don't often sweeten my wines, so I don't use the commercial wine
>sweetening or "wine conditioner" products. I gather that some of them
>contain sorbates as well as sugar or glycerin or whatever. In those
>instances where I do want to sweeten a wine, I want to make sure there
>is enough sorbate, so I add that separately, then add table sugar
>(slowly) to taste. The commercial products may work well in some
>situations; my concern about relying solely on the sorbate included
>with a "wine sweetener" product is that adding just a small amount to
>the wine might result in a sorbate level that is too low to be
>effective.
>
Thanks again for that Doug. I have found that fermenting out to
completely dry, sometimes leaves the wine more dry than I prefer to
drink. In the past I have tried to correct that by adding sugar and
hoping that the yeast will reach its alcohol tolerance level, then stop
fermenting. That is not good practice, so I think I will experiment with
Campden and/or sorbate while there is still some sugar in the wine.

I'm not aiming to make sparkling or fortified wines yet, but I'll
improve with practice, and the wines can hardly become undrinkable.

--
Alan Gould. North Lincolnshire, UK.