anyone ever make this stuff? i have been working on a batch since march. right
now, it has been in the garage cold stabilizing to get rid of tartaric
acid...seems to be working out really good, it looks nice and clear...took a
glass out to sample..YUK! that stuff tastes nasty, a horrible after
taste...does it always taste like this, i dont know if a sweetener will help or
not, it seems difficult to mask that nastiness...

MOhar871 wrote:

> anyone ever make this stuff? i have been working on a batch since march.
> right now, it has been in the garage cold stabilizing to get rid of
> tartaric acid...seems to be working out really good, it looks nice and
> clear...took a glass out to sample..YUK! that stuff tastes nasty, a
> horrible after taste...does it always taste like this, i dont know if a
> sweetener will help or not, it seems difficult to mask that nastiness...

If you have been working on a batch of Niagara since March and it taste
horrible now - well - it does not look good. I have made Niagara from
Welch's frozen juice and it was very drinkable as soon as fermentation
finished.

MOhar871 wrote:

> anyone ever make this stuff? i have been working on a batch since march.
> right now, it has been in the garage cold stabilizing to get rid of
> tartaric acid...seems to be working out really good, it looks nice and
> clear...took a glass out to sample..YUK! that stuff tastes nasty, a
> horrible after taste...does it always taste like this, i dont know if a
> sweetener will help or not, it seems difficult to mask that nastiness...

If you have been working on a batch of Niagara since March and it taste
horrible now - well - it does not look good. I have made Niagara from
Welch's frozen juice and it was very drinkable as soon as fermentation
finished.

MOhar871 wrote:

> anyone ever make this stuff? i have been working on a batch since march.
> right now, it has been in the garage cold stabilizing to get rid of
> tartaric acid...seems to be working out really good, it looks nice and
> clear...took a glass out to sample..YUK! that stuff tastes nasty, a
> horrible after taste...does it always taste like this, i dont know if a
> sweetener will help or not, it seems difficult to mask that nastiness...

If you have been working on a batch of Niagara since March and it taste
horrible now - well - it does not look good. I have made Niagara from
Welch's frozen juice and it was very drinkable as soon as fermentation
finished.

Mohar,
I would recommend you add some sugar syrup before you declare it a
disaster. I only had a few batches of finished Niagara that was dry and they
do taste a bit different. One was oaked and really was different. I make
Niagara nearly every year and it is one of the easier varieties to deal with
for me. As a rule I finish all of my wines dry and then sweeten them back
after completion to the desired sweetness. You need to get used to
inspecting,smelling and tasting your wines at various stages in order to
learn what it should be like. This is the best method I know of to catch a
problem such as bacterial infection or Hydrogen Sulphide problems before
they are terminal. Niagara can taste especially odd if the acid content is
high, and you are trying it dry. HTH
John Dixon

This wine was not a kit...it was from juice from a vineyard...it is about the
same price as the welchs i suppose, less then $5 a gallon. it certainly isnt
the "big bucks" As far as kits go, I DO think they are a great thing and very
foolproof for people who arent really sure about what they are doing. nothing
wrong with getting a kit. I have had tons of compliments on my kit wines, and
honestly those are the only ones so far that havent left sediment in them! as
for my niagara, i definetly have to sweeten this stuff, also maybe a little
peach flavoring in it (at the vineyards suggestion) it is worth a try...i am
not giving up on it yet

J Dixon wrote:

< Niagara can taste especially odd if the acid
> content is high, and you are trying it dry. HTH
> John Dixon

I have never experienced this. In fact, from my experience, dry Niagara can
taste very nearly like an unoaked Chardonnay or Sauvignon Blanc; and yes,
the Niagara I have made has been made intentionally sorta high in acid.

I would be willing to bet that I could serve a slightly acidic Niagara along
with a Chardonnay and or Sauvignon Blanc in a blind taste test and a lot of
people would prefer the Niagara. - BTW - I have done this. And, to add
insult to injury - the Niagra was made from Welch's frozen concentrate.

I can't believe people are spending big bucks on white grape concentrates
when they can make a very good white wine for about 75 cents a bottle from
frozen concentrate that they can buy at the grocery store.

As a side note; I make most of my wines (dry reds) from fresh grapes that I
grow or buy. I am not a "kit" wine maker.

J Dixon wrote:

< Niagara can taste especially odd if the acid
> content is high, and you are trying it dry. HTH
> John Dixon

I have never experienced this. In fact, from my experience, dry Niagara can
taste very nearly like an unoaked Chardonnay or Sauvignon Blanc; and yes,
the Niagara I have made has been made intentionally sorta high in acid.

I would be willing to bet that I could serve a slightly acidic Niagara along
with a Chardonnay and or Sauvignon Blanc in a blind taste test and a lot of
people would prefer the Niagara. - BTW - I have done this. And, to add
insult to injury - the Niagra was made from Welch's frozen concentrate.

I can't believe people are spending big bucks on white grape concentrates
when they can make a very good white wine for about 75 cents a bottle from
frozen concentrate that they can buy at the grocery store.

As a side note; I make most of my wines (dry reds) from fresh grapes that I
grow or buy. I am not a "kit" wine maker.

"MOhar871" > wrote in message
...
> anyone ever make this stuff? i have been working on a batch since march.
right
> now, it has been in the garage cold stabilizing to get rid of tartaric
> acid...seems to be working out really good, it looks nice and clear...took
a
> glass out to sample..YUK! that stuff tastes nasty, a horrible after
> taste...does it always taste like this, i dont know if a sweetener will
help or
> not, it seems difficult to mask that nastiness...

Sounds like you are describing the labrusca "foxy" taste associated with
Concord and Niagara wines.
Some people love it some hate it. If you drink enough of it you will get
used to it once you forget what real wine tastes like.
Have you considered giving it away or making vinegar?

i would describe it as "bitter"

i would describe it as "bitter"

"MOhar871" > wrote in message
...
> anyone ever make this stuff? i have been working on a batch since march.
right
> now, it has been in the garage cold stabilizing to get rid of tartaric
> acid...seems to be working out really good, it looks nice and clear...took a
> glass out to sample..YUK! that stuff tastes nasty, a horrible after
> taste...does it always taste like this, i dont know if a sweetener will help
or
> not, it seems difficult to mask that nastiness...
>
>
That taste reminds me of the smell of fuel oil. Is that it?

Paul,
I wont dispute what you are saying, but the point I was trying to make
is to someone less experienced at tasting wine- dry Niagara does not taste
like what most people are used to. Most of my non winemaking friends like
the Niagara sweet saying it tastes like "grandpa's grapes". When I serve it
to the dry not only do they not like it, they don't even believe it is
Niagara until either I convince them by smell or add sugar back.
John Dixon

"Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote in message
...
> J Dixon wrote:
>
> < Niagara can taste especially odd if the acid
> > content is high, and you are trying it dry. HTH
> > John Dixon
>
> I have never experienced this. In fact, from my experience, dry Niagara
can
> taste very nearly like an unoaked Chardonnay or Sauvignon Blanc; and yes,
> the Niagara I have made has been made intentionally sorta high in acid.
>
> I would be willing to bet that I could serve a slightly acidic Niagara
along
> with a Chardonnay and or Sauvignon Blanc in a blind taste test and a lot
of
> people would prefer the Niagara. - BTW - I have done this. And, to add
> insult to injury - the Niagra was made from Welch's frozen concentrate.
>
> I can't believe people are spending big bucks on white grape concentrates
> when they can make a very good white wine for about 75 cents a bottle from
> frozen concentrate that they can buy at the grocery store.
>
> As a side note; I make most of my wines (dry reds) from fresh grapes that
I
> grow or buy. I am not a "kit" wine maker.

Paul,
I wont dispute what you are saying, but the point I was trying to make
is to someone less experienced at tasting wine- dry Niagara does not taste
like what most people are used to. Most of my non winemaking friends like
the Niagara sweet saying it tastes like "grandpa's grapes". When I serve it
to the dry not only do they not like it, they don't even believe it is
Niagara until either I convince them by smell or add sugar back.
John Dixon

"Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote in message
...
> J Dixon wrote:
>
> < Niagara can taste especially odd if the acid
> > content is high, and you are trying it dry. HTH
> > John Dixon
>
> I have never experienced this. In fact, from my experience, dry Niagara
can
> taste very nearly like an unoaked Chardonnay or Sauvignon Blanc; and yes,
> the Niagara I have made has been made intentionally sorta high in acid.
>
> I would be willing to bet that I could serve a slightly acidic Niagara
along
> with a Chardonnay and or Sauvignon Blanc in a blind taste test and a lot
of
> people would prefer the Niagara. - BTW - I have done this. And, to add
> insult to injury - the Niagra was made from Welch's frozen concentrate.
>
> I can't believe people are spending big bucks on white grape concentrates
> when they can make a very good white wine for about 75 cents a bottle from
> frozen concentrate that they can buy at the grocery store.
>
> As a side note; I make most of my wines (dry reds) from fresh grapes that
I
> grow or buy. I am not a "kit" wine maker.

J Dixon wrote:

> Paul,
> I wont dispute what you are saying, but the point I was trying to
> make
> is to someone less experienced at tasting wine- dry Niagara does not taste
> like what most people are used to. Most of my non winemaking friends like
> the Niagara sweet saying it tastes like "grandpa's grapes".

Ah, that may be it. People's perception of what wine "should" taste like is
base on previous experience and tradition. I have some friends who can not
stand ANY dry wine. For them, I sweeten and sometimes fortify.

I have never tried to make a Niagara from kits or fresh grapes. All I can
say is that you can make a very good dry white wine from Welch's frozen
concentrate. The only problem I have with it is that it finishes with a
slightly sweet after taste even though it is bone dry. I would think that
sweetening such a wine would satisfy your friends who like a sweet Niagara.

I am in the process of experimenting with using Niagara from Welch's as a
base and adding things like frozen strawberries. I made a very good dry
Niagara by using the frozen concentrate and fresh pears. The pear taste
did not come through but I think it gave it a more vinuous taste.

I am trying to develop a low cost white wine for summer drinking and for
cooking. My definition of a "Cooking Wine" is - wine you drink while
cooking OR add it to what you are cooking - or BOTH.

Happy wine making

J Dixon wrote:

> Paul,
> I wont dispute what you are saying, but the point I was trying to
> make
> is to someone less experienced at tasting wine- dry Niagara does not taste
> like what most people are used to. Most of my non winemaking friends like
> the Niagara sweet saying it tastes like "grandpa's grapes".

Ah, that may be it. People's perception of what wine "should" taste like is
base on previous experience and tradition. I have some friends who can not
stand ANY dry wine. For them, I sweeten and sometimes fortify.

I have never tried to make a Niagara from kits or fresh grapes. All I can
say is that you can make a very good dry white wine from Welch's frozen
concentrate. The only problem I have with it is that it finishes with a
slightly sweet after taste even though it is bone dry. I would think that
sweetening such a wine would satisfy your friends who like a sweet Niagara.

I am in the process of experimenting with using Niagara from Welch's as a
base and adding things like frozen strawberries. I made a very good dry
Niagara by using the frozen concentrate and fresh pears. The pear taste
did not come through but I think it gave it a more vinuous taste.

I am trying to develop a low cost white wine for summer drinking and for
cooking. My definition of a "Cooking Wine" is - wine you drink while
cooking OR add it to what you are cooking - or BOTH.

Happy wine making

Hi: Widmers (New York State) sells an inexpensive Niagara ("Lake Niagara)
which is delicious. I have made it in the past from Niagara grapes and
found that it had to be made on the sweet side.

Joe
"Sarge" > wrote in message
...
> "MOhar871" > wrote in message
> ...
>> anyone ever make this stuff? i have been working on a batch since march.
> right
>> now, it has been in the garage cold stabilizing to get rid of tartaric
>> acid...seems to be working out really good, it looks nice and
>> clear...took
> a
>> glass out to sample..YUK! that stuff tastes nasty, a horrible after
>> taste...does it always taste like this, i dont know if a sweetener will
> help or
>> not, it seems difficult to mask that nastiness...
>
> Sounds like you are describing the labrusca "foxy" taste associated with
> Concord and Niagara wines.
> Some people love it some hate it. If you drink enough of it you will get
> used to it once you forget what real wine tastes like.
> Have you considered giving it away or making vinegar?
>
>

Joe Yudelson wrote:

> Hi: Widmers (New York State) sells an inexpensive Niagara ("Lake Niagara)
> which is delicious. I have made it in the past from Niagara grapes and
> found that it had to be made on the sweet side.

Why did you "Have" to make it on the sweet side. Was this just a preference
you have for sweet wine? I have never made Niagara from fresh grapes but
the dry Niagara I have made from frozen Welch's juice turned out excellent.
Of course, I balanced the acidity and sugar before fermentation. One of
these days I will have to try to make it from fresh grapes. Perhaps the
juice from fresh grapes needs a balancing act before fermentation also.

Joe Yudelson wrote:

> Hi: Widmers (New York State) sells an inexpensive Niagara ("Lake Niagara)
> which is delicious. I have made it in the past from Niagara grapes and
> found that it had to be made on the sweet side.

Why did you "Have" to make it on the sweet side. Was this just a preference
you have for sweet wine? I have never made Niagara from fresh grapes but
the dry Niagara I have made from frozen Welch's juice turned out excellent.
Of course, I balanced the acidity and sugar before fermentation. One of
these days I will have to try to make it from fresh grapes. Perhaps the
juice from fresh grapes needs a balancing act before fermentation also.

Joe Yudelson wrote:

> Hi: Widmers (New York State) sells an inexpensive Niagara ("Lake Niagara)
> which is delicious. I have made it in the past from Niagara grapes and
> found that it had to be made on the sweet side.

Why did you "Have" to make it on the sweet side. Was this just a preference
you have for sweet wine? I have never made Niagara from fresh grapes but
the dry Niagara I have made from frozen Welch's juice turned out excellent.
Of course, I balanced the acidity and sugar before fermentation. One of
these days I will have to try to make it from fresh grapes. Perhaps the
juice from fresh grapes needs a balancing act before fermentation also.

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 06:41:10 -0500, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> wrote:

>Joe Yudelson wrote:
>
>> Hi: Widmers (New York State) sells an inexpensive Niagara ("Lake Niagara)
>> which is delicious. I have made it in the past from Niagara grapes and
>> found that it had to be made on the sweet side.
>
>Why did you "Have" to make it on the sweet side. Was this just a preference
>you have for sweet wine? I have never made Niagara from fresh grapes but
>the dry Niagara I have made from frozen Welch's juice turned out excellent.
>Of course, I balanced the acidity and sugar before fermentation. One of
>these days I will have to try to make it from fresh grapes. Perhaps the
>juice from fresh grapes needs a balancing act before fermentation also.

What yeast did you use Paul?

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 06:41:10 -0500, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> wrote:

>Joe Yudelson wrote:
>
>> Hi: Widmers (New York State) sells an inexpensive Niagara ("Lake Niagara)
>> which is delicious. I have made it in the past from Niagara grapes and
>> found that it had to be made on the sweet side.
>
>Why did you "Have" to make it on the sweet side. Was this just a preference
>you have for sweet wine? I have never made Niagara from fresh grapes but
>the dry Niagara I have made from frozen Welch's juice turned out excellent.
>Of course, I balanced the acidity and sugar before fermentation. One of
>these days I will have to try to make it from fresh grapes. Perhaps the
>juice from fresh grapes needs a balancing act before fermentation also.

What yeast did you use Paul?

"A. J. Rawls" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 06:41:10 -0500, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> > wrote:
>
> >Joe Yudelson wrote:
> >
> >> Hi: Widmers (New York State) sells an inexpensive Niagara ("Lake
Niagara)
> >> which is delicious. I have made it in the past from Niagara grapes and
> >> found that it had to be made on the sweet side.
> >
> >Why did you "Have" to make it on the sweet side. Was this just a
preference
> >you have for sweet wine? I have never made Niagara from fresh grapes but
> >the dry Niagara I have made from frozen Welch's juice turned out excellent.
> >Of course, I balanced the acidity and sugar before fermentation. One of
> >these days I will have to try to make it from fresh grapes. Perhaps the
> >juice from fresh grapes needs a balancing act before fermentation also.
>
> What yeast did you use Paul?
>
>
I wasn't joking about about the fuel oil, or kerosene smell that you can get
with Niagara grapes. I was told that it is reduced by quickly pressing the
grapes. Anyone else heard of this?
Ken

"A. J. Rawls" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 06:41:10 -0500, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> > wrote:
>
> >Joe Yudelson wrote:
> >
> >> Hi: Widmers (New York State) sells an inexpensive Niagara ("Lake
Niagara)
> >> which is delicious. I have made it in the past from Niagara grapes and
> >> found that it had to be made on the sweet side.
> >
> >Why did you "Have" to make it on the sweet side. Was this just a
preference
> >you have for sweet wine? I have never made Niagara from fresh grapes but
> >the dry Niagara I have made from frozen Welch's juice turned out excellent.
> >Of course, I balanced the acidity and sugar before fermentation. One of
> >these days I will have to try to make it from fresh grapes. Perhaps the
> >juice from fresh grapes needs a balancing act before fermentation also.
>
> What yeast did you use Paul?
>
>
I wasn't joking about about the fuel oil, or kerosene smell that you can get
with Niagara grapes. I was told that it is reduced by quickly pressing the
grapes. Anyone else heard of this?
Ken

A. J. Rawls wrote:


> What yeast did you use Paul?

Lalvin D-47

A. J. Rawls wrote:


> What yeast did you use Paul?

Lalvin D-47

A. J. Rawls wrote:


> What yeast did you use Paul?

Lalvin D-47

I've seen that too. I made mine semi dry, but I really bumped the
acid down, probably close to 7g/l.

Joe

> I wasn't joking about about the fuel oil, or kerosene smell that you can get
> with Niagara grapes. I was told that it is reduced by quickly pressing the
> grapes. Anyone else heard of this?
> Ken

I've seen that too. I made mine semi dry, but I really bumped the
acid down, probably close to 7g/l.

Joe

> I wasn't joking about about the fuel oil, or kerosene smell that you can get
> with Niagara grapes. I was told that it is reduced by quickly pressing the
> grapes. Anyone else heard of this?
> Ken

I've made niagara wines from both welch's concentrate and from grapes.
I thought that the taste of the welch's was much more successful than from
the grapes.
My wine I made from Grapes tasted very flat....
Now, I don't have a wine press, but extracted juice using a victorio
strainer....
So I may ahve gotten some skin sediment with it, but didn't let it ferment
too long before I racked it....

Next time I'll stick with the concentrate....
people really seemed to like that.

Rick Vanderwal
Fremont, MI

I've made niagara wines from both welch's concentrate and from grapes.
I thought that the taste of the welch's was much more successful than from
the grapes.
My wine I made from Grapes tasted very flat....
Now, I don't have a wine press, but extracted juice using a victorio
strainer....
So I may ahve gotten some skin sediment with it, but didn't let it ferment
too long before I racked it....

Next time I'll stick with the concentrate....
people really seemed to like that.

Rick Vanderwal
Fremont, MI

"Rick Vanderwal" > wrote in message
...
> I've made niagara wines from both welch's concentrate and from grapes.
> I thought that the taste of the welch's was much more successful than from
> the grapes.
> My wine I made from Grapes tasted very flat....
> Now, I don't have a wine press, but extracted juice using a victorio
> strainer....
> So I may ahve gotten some skin sediment with it, but didn't let it ferment
> too long before I racked it....
>
> Next time I'll stick with the concentrate....
> people really seemed to like that.
>
> Rick Vanderwal
> Fremont, MI
>

Rick, just to prove what a great guy I am, I am willing to sample any
wines you are unsure of. I offer this service out of the goodness of my
heart to all US home winemakers. Just wrap a tightly corked, 1.5 litre
bottle in a padded box and mail it to:
Bob
27954-0021

You're welcome! :-)
Bob

"Rick Vanderwal" > wrote in message
...
> I've made niagara wines from both welch's concentrate and from grapes.
> I thought that the taste of the welch's was much more successful than from
> the grapes.
> My wine I made from Grapes tasted very flat....
> Now, I don't have a wine press, but extracted juice using a victorio
> strainer....
> So I may ahve gotten some skin sediment with it, but didn't let it ferment
> too long before I racked it....
>
> Next time I'll stick with the concentrate....
> people really seemed to like that.
>
> Rick Vanderwal
> Fremont, MI
>

Rick, just to prove what a great guy I am, I am willing to sample any
wines you are unsure of. I offer this service out of the goodness of my
heart to all US home winemakers. Just wrap a tightly corked, 1.5 litre
bottle in a padded box and mail it to:
Bob
27954-0021

You're welcome! :-)
Bob

"Rick Vanderwal" > wrote in message
...
> I've made niagara wines from both welch's concentrate and from grapes.
> I thought that the taste of the welch's was much more successful than from
> the grapes.
> My wine I made from Grapes tasted very flat....
> Now, I don't have a wine press, but extracted juice using a victorio
> strainer....
> So I may ahve gotten some skin sediment with it, but didn't let it ferment
> too long before I racked it....
>
> Next time I'll stick with the concentrate....
> people really seemed to like that.
>
> Rick Vanderwal
> Fremont, MI
>

Rick, just to prove what a great guy I am, I am willing to sample any
wines you are unsure of. I offer this service out of the goodness of my
heart to all US home winemakers. Just wrap a tightly corked, 1.5 litre
bottle in a padded box and mail it to:
Bob
27954-0021

You're welcome! :-)
Bob