Sorry for the crossposting --- feel free to reply to any one of the 3
groups, as I read them all.

I'm about to start back on some winemaking & homebrewing after a gap
of several years, & my bottle of Betadine Antiseptic Solution
(aqueous, povidone-iodine USP 10% w/v) is almost empty & has expired.
I asked for a replacement at the local pharmacy & was told that it's
been discontinued (searching the WWW agrees). I'm looking for
something identical or similar under another name to use as a no-rinse
sanitizer.

The closest things I've found are Vetadine & Vetasept, both sold for
veterinary use. They look like the same thing as Betadine, but
Vetadine is only sold in small bottles at a much higher price.

Comments?

On 09/05/14 10:19, Adam Funk wrote:
> Sorry for the crossposting --- feel free to reply to any one of the 3
> groups, as I read them all.
>
> I'm about to start back on some winemaking & homebrewing after a gap
> of several years, & my bottle of Betadine Antiseptic Solution
> (aqueous, povidone-iodine USP 10% w/v) is almost empty & has expired.
> I asked for a replacement at the local pharmacy & was told that it's
> been discontinued (searching the WWW agrees). I'm looking for
> something identical or similar under another name to use as a no-rinse
> sanitizer.
>
> The closest things I've found are Vetadine & Vetasept, both sold for
> veterinary use. They look like the same thing as Betadine, but
> Vetadine is only sold in small bottles at a much higher price.
>
> Comments?
>

What's wrong with sodium metabisulphite?

On 09/05/2014 10:56, Tim Watts wrote:
> On 09/05/14 10:19, Adam Funk wrote:
>> Sorry for the crossposting --- feel free to reply to any one of the 3
>> groups, as I read them all.
>>
>> I'm about to start back on some winemaking & homebrewing after a gap
>> of several years, & my bottle of Betadine Antiseptic Solution
>> (aqueous, povidone-iodine USP 10% w/v) is almost empty & has expired.
>> I asked for a replacement at the local pharmacy & was told that it's
>> been discontinued (searching the WWW agrees). I'm looking for
>> something identical or similar under another name to use as a no-rinse
>> sanitizer.
>>
>> The closest things I've found are Vetadine & Vetasept, both sold for
>> veterinary use. They look like the same thing as Betadine, but
>> Vetadine is only sold in small bottles at a much higher price.
>>
>> Comments?
>>
>
> What's wrong with sodium metabisulphite?

I'm pretty sure I used to nick the Milton, in the days of nappy buckets.

On 2014-05-09, Tim Watts wrote:

> On 09/05/14 10:19, Adam Funk wrote:
>> Sorry for the crossposting --- feel free to reply to any one of the 3
>> groups, as I read them all.
>>
>> I'm about to start back on some winemaking & homebrewing after a gap
>> of several years, & my bottle of Betadine Antiseptic Solution
>> (aqueous, povidone-iodine USP 10% w/v) is almost empty & has expired.
>> I asked for a replacement at the local pharmacy & was told that it's
>> been discontinued (searching the WWW agrees). I'm looking for
>> something identical or similar under another name to use as a no-rinse
>> sanitizer.
>>
>> The closest things I've found are Vetadine & Vetasept, both sold for
>> veterinary use. They look like the same thing as Betadine, but
>> Vetadine is only sold in small bottles at a much higher price.
>>
>> Comments?
>>
>
> What's wrong with sodium metabisulphite?

You have to rinse it off thoroughly. OTOH, you can soak clean
equipment in the right dilution of Betadine for a few minutes, let it
drip for a few minutes, & use it that way --- it's a lot easier.

On 2014-05-09, Jethro_uk wrote:

> On Fri, 09 May 2014 10:56:30 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

>> What's wrong with sodium metabisulphite?
>
> It's not "no rinse". Because I bottle my beer, trying to sanitise 45
> bottles, and then rinse them is a PITA. Then I read in a forum about no-
> rinsing, and a bottle-washing pump. You fill the pumps bowl with 500ml of
> no-rinse sanitiser (StarSan), and press the bottle down onto a spout
> which sprays the inside. Leave to dry, bottle. Been doing this for over a
> year now, and it's perfect.

Same here.

I happen to have a drawer from an older freezer whose holes
are perfectly suited to holding upside-down beer bottles without
touching the inside or the lip. For rinsing, I brought one of these
<http://www.antonco.com/jetcarboy/>
from the US, then had to make my own adapter to fit it on a British
garden tap.

But after using no-rinse Betadine solutions, I don't want to go back
to rinsing even the other equipment, never mind the bottles. I'll
look up StarSan --- thanks for the tip!


--
A lot of people never use their intiative because no-one
told them to. --- Banksy

On 09/05/2014 10:19, Adam Funk wrote:
> Sorry for the crossposting --- feel free to reply to any one of the 3
> groups, as I read them all.
>
> I'm about to start back on some winemaking & homebrewing after a gap
> of several years, & my bottle of Betadine Antiseptic Solution
> (aqueous, povidone-iodine USP 10% w/v) is almost empty & has expired.
> I asked for a replacement at the local pharmacy & was told that it's
> been discontinued (searching the WWW agrees). I'm looking for
> something identical or similar under another name to use as a no-rinse
> sanitizer.
>
> The closest things I've found are Vetadine & Vetasept, both sold for
> veterinary use. They look like the same thing as Betadine, but
> Vetadine is only sold in small bottles at a much higher price.
>
> Comments?

What's wrong with using a dishwasher? Surely a non-eco one will get up
the temperatures required for sterilising?

On 2014-05-09, Jethro_uk wrote:

> On Fri, 09 May 2014 13:49:53 +0100, Fredxxx wrote:
>
>> On 09/05/2014 10:19, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> Sorry for the crossposting --- feel free to reply to any one of the 3
>>> groups, as I read them all.
>>>
>>> I'm about to start back on some winemaking & homebrewing after a gap of
>>> several years, & my bottle of Betadine Antiseptic Solution (aqueous,
>>> povidone-iodine USP 10% w/v) is almost empty & has expired. I asked for
>>> a replacement at the local pharmacy & was told that it's been
>>> discontinued (searching the WWW agrees). I'm looking for something
>>> identical or similar under another name to use as a no-rinse sanitizer.
>>>
>>> The closest things I've found are Vetadine & Vetasept, both sold for
>>> veterinary use. They look like the same thing as Betadine, but
>>> Vetadine is only sold in small bottles at a much higher price.
>>>
>>> Comments?
>>
>> What's wrong with using a dishwasher? Surely a non-eco one will get up
>> the temperatures required for sterilising?
>
> Technically, it's not sterilising, it's "sanitising".
>
> Fitting 45 500ml bottles in a dishwasher in one go ....

....& the shortest programme on mine takes 45 minutes.


--
"It is the role of librarians to keep government running in difficult
times," replied Dramoren. "Librarians are the last line of defence
against chaos." (McMullen 2001)

On 09/05/2014 14:51, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2014-05-09, Jethro_uk wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 09 May 2014 13:49:53 +0100, Fredxxx wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/05/2014 10:19, Adam Funk wrote:
>>>> Sorry for the crossposting --- feel free to reply to any one of the 3
>>>> groups, as I read them all.
>>>>
>>>> I'm about to start back on some winemaking & homebrewing after a gap of
>>>> several years, & my bottle of Betadine Antiseptic Solution (aqueous,
>>>> povidone-iodine USP 10% w/v) is almost empty & has expired. I asked for
>>>> a replacement at the local pharmacy & was told that it's been
>>>> discontinued (searching the WWW agrees). I'm looking for something
>>>> identical or similar under another name to use as a no-rinse sanitizer.
>>>>
>>>> The closest things I've found are Vetadine & Vetasept, both sold for
>>>> veterinary use. They look like the same thing as Betadine, but
>>>> Vetadine is only sold in small bottles at a much higher price.
>>>>
>>>> Comments?
>>>
>>> What's wrong with using a dishwasher? Surely a non-eco one will get up
>>> the temperatures required for sterilising?
>>
>> Technically, it's not sterilising, it's "sanitising".
>>
>> Fitting 45 500ml bottles in a dishwasher in one go ....
>
> ...& the shortest programme on mine takes 45 minutes.

And I thought that brewing was a slow process!

I think mine might just take 45 x 500ml bottles, certainly in 2 batches!

On 09/05/14 12:04, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2014-05-09, Tim Watts wrote:
>
>> On 09/05/14 10:19, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> Sorry for the crossposting --- feel free to reply to any one of the 3
>>> groups, as I read them all.
>>>
>>> I'm about to start back on some winemaking & homebrewing after a gap
>>> of several years, & my bottle of Betadine Antiseptic Solution
>>> (aqueous, povidone-iodine USP 10% w/v) is almost empty & has expired.
>>> I asked for a replacement at the local pharmacy & was told that it's
>>> been discontinued (searching the WWW agrees). I'm looking for
>>> something identical or similar under another name to use as a no-rinse
>>> sanitizer.
>>>
>>> The closest things I've found are Vetadine & Vetasept, both sold for
>>> veterinary use. They look like the same thing as Betadine, but
>>> Vetadine is only sold in small bottles at a much higher price.
>>>
>>> Comments?
>>>
>>
>> What's wrong with sodium metabisulphite?
>
> You have to rinse it off thoroughly. OTOH, you can soak clean
> equipment in the right dilution of Betadine for a few minutes, let it
> drip for a few minutes, & use it that way --- it's a lot easier.
>

A trace of sod.meta. is surely fairly harmless though - it's a permitted
food preservative, aka E223. Granted you don't want to nuke the yeast,
but the same must apply to betadine.

On 09/05/14 15:31, Fredxxx wrote:
> On 09/05/2014 14:51, Adam Funk wrote:
>> On 2014-05-09, Jethro_uk wrote:
>>

> I think mine might just take 45 x 500ml bottles, certainly in 2 batches!
>

Oven bake at a bit over 100C? Slow heat and slow cool to avoid cracking
the glass.

OK it's not fast, but it's low hassle.

Tim Watts > wrote in news:318v3b-bo3.ln1
@squidward.local.dionic.net:

> On 09/05/14 15:31, Fredxxx wrote:
>> On 09/05/2014 14:51, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> On 2014-05-09, Jethro_uk wrote:
>>>
>
>> I think mine might just take 45 x 500ml bottles, certainly in 2
batches!
>>
>
> Oven bake at a bit over 100C? Slow heat and slow cool to avoid cracking
> the glass.
>
> OK it's not fast, but it's low hassle.
>

I have heard that repeated baking will stress the glass.
It's low hassle until all your bottles explode under low
pressure.

Back to the original question: StarSan is a good,
no rinse sanitizer. I don't know how hard it is
to get in the UK.

"Adam Funk" > wrote in message
...
> Sorry for the crossposting --- feel free to reply to any one of the 3
> groups, as I read them all.
>
> I'm about to start back on some winemaking & homebrewing after a gap
> of several years, & my bottle of Betadine Antiseptic Solution
> (aqueous, povidone-iodine USP 10% w/v) is almost empty & has expired.
> I asked for a replacement at the local pharmacy & was told that it's
> been discontinued (searching the WWW agrees). I'm looking for
> something identical or similar under another name to use as a no-rinse
> sanitizer.
>
> The closest things I've found are Vetadine & Vetasept, both sold for
> veterinary use. They look like the same thing as Betadine, but
> Vetadine is only sold in small bottles at a much higher price.
>
> Comments?

I've never bothered with sanitisers at all with my brewing
using plastic barrel fermenters, just wash them out well
with cold water using a plastic sponge to rub the grunge
off and being very careful to only use the sponge for that
and throw it out and get a new one when when its getting
a bit well used. Never had any infected batches.

Don’t do wine tho.

"Jethro_uk" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 09 May 2014 10:56:30 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:
>
>> On 09/05/14 10:19, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> Sorry for the crossposting --- feel free to reply to any one of the 3
>>> groups, as I read them all.
>>>
>>> I'm about to start back on some winemaking & homebrewing after a gap of
>>> several years, & my bottle of Betadine Antiseptic Solution (aqueous,
>>> povidone-iodine USP 10% w/v) is almost empty & has expired. I asked for
>>> a replacement at the local pharmacy & was told that it's been
>>> discontinued (searching the WWW agrees). I'm looking for something
>>> identical or similar under another name to use as a no-rinse sanitizer.
>>>
>>> The closest things I've found are Vetadine & Vetasept, both sold for
>>> veterinary use. They look like the same thing as Betadine, but
>>> Vetadine is only sold in small bottles at a much higher price.
>>>
>>> Comments?
>>>
>>>
>> What's wrong with sodium metabisulphite?
>
> It's not "no rinse". Because I bottle my beer, trying to sanitise 45
> bottles, and then rinse them is a PITA. Then I read in a forum about no-
> rinsing, and a bottle-washing pump. You fill the pumps bowl with 500ml of
> no-rinse sanitiser (StarSan), and press the bottle down onto a spout
> which sprays the inside. Leave to dry, bottle. Been doing this for over a
> year now, and it's perfect.

I use the dishwasher for my glass bottles. Both what we
call stubbys, 375 ml and longnecks, 750ml. Works fine.

With the 750ml PETS I use a little non scented bleach
in the bottom, fill with water, let it stand overnight,
rinse well with cold tap water. You do have to be
careful to rinse well otherwise you can kill the
secondary fermentation and end up with flat beer.

On 09/05/2014 20:40, Rod Speed wrote:
>
>
> "Jethro_uk" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Fri, 09 May 2014 10:56:30 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/05/14 10:19, Adam Funk wrote:
>>>> Sorry for the crossposting --- feel free to reply to any one of the 3
>>>> groups, as I read them all.
>>>>
>>>> I'm about to start back on some winemaking & homebrewing after a gap of
>>>> several years, & my bottle of Betadine Antiseptic Solution (aqueous,
>>>> povidone-iodine USP 10% w/v) is almost empty & has expired. I asked for
>>>> a replacement at the local pharmacy & was told that it's been
>>>> discontinued (searching the WWW agrees). I'm looking for something
>>>> identical or similar under another name to use as a no-rinse sanitizer.
>>>>
>>>> The closest things I've found are Vetadine & Vetasept, both sold for
>>>> veterinary use. They look like the same thing as Betadine, but
>>>> Vetadine is only sold in small bottles at a much higher price.
>>>>
>>>> Comments?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> What's wrong with sodium metabisulphite?
>>
>> It's not "no rinse". Because I bottle my beer, trying to sanitise 45
>> bottles, and then rinse them is a PITA. Then I read in a forum about no-
>> rinsing, and a bottle-washing pump. You fill the pumps bowl with 500ml of
>> no-rinse sanitiser (StarSan), and press the bottle down onto a spout
>> which sprays the inside. Leave to dry, bottle. Been doing this for over a
>> year now, and it's perfect.
>
> I use the dishwasher for my glass bottles. Both what we
> call stubbys, 375 ml and longnecks, 750ml. Works fine.
>
> With the 750ml PETS I use a little non scented bleach
> in the bottom, fill with water, let it stand overnight,
> rinse well with cold tap water. You do have to be
> careful to rinse well otherwise you can kill the
> secondary fermentation and end up with flat beer.

And? This *is* a UK group. The one I'm reading is, anyway. We don't
normally do fizzy beer.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 09/05/14 18:56, Bart Goddard wrote:
> Tim Watts > wrote in news:318v3b-bo3.ln1
> @squidward.local.dionic.net:
>
>> On 09/05/14 15:31, Fredxxx wrote:
>>> On 09/05/2014 14:51, Adam Funk wrote:
>>>> On 2014-05-09, Jethro_uk wrote:
>>>>
>>
>>> I think mine might just take 45 x 500ml bottles, certainly in 2
> batches!
>>>
>>
>> Oven bake at a bit over 100C? Slow heat and slow cool to avoid cracking
>> the glass.
>>
>> OK it's not fast, but it's low hassle.
>>
>
> I have heard that repeated baking will stress the glass.
> It's low hassle until all your bottles explode under low
> pressure.
>
> Back to the original question: StarSan is a good,
> no rinse sanitizer. I don't know how hard it is
> to get in the UK.
>

I would not have thought that slow cycling to 100+bit C would have done
a lot (the emphasis being on slow) - but fair enough. Works for jam
jars, but I guess they are not under pressure in use.

So what about the various products that come up if you google "no rinse
sanitiser brewing"? There seem to be a number of different compounds.

On 09/05/2014 12:17, Jethro_uk wrote:
> I did try an iodine-based one, but it left a taste behind - ruined 45
> bottles of beer

I wonder how much iodine is left behind?

A typical recommended intake is 150 micrograms a day. Significantly
greater intake is controversial.

--
Rod

"Fredxxx" > wrote in message
...
> On 09/05/2014 10:19, Adam Funk wrote:
>> Sorry for the crossposting --- feel free to reply to any one of the 3
>> groups, as I read them all.
>>
>> I'm about to start back on some winemaking & homebrewing after a gap
>> of several years, & my bottle of Betadine Antiseptic Solution
>> (aqueous, povidone-iodine USP 10% w/v) is almost empty & has expired.
>> I asked for a replacement at the local pharmacy & was told that it's
>> been discontinued (searching the WWW agrees). I'm looking for
>> something identical or similar under another name to use as a no-rinse
>> sanitizer.
>>
>> The closest things I've found are Vetadine & Vetasept, both sold for
>> veterinary use. They look like the same thing as Betadine, but
>> Vetadine is only sold in small bottles at a much higher price.
>>
>> Comments?

> What's wrong with using a dishwasher?

Yeah, that's what I do. In fact I only got into beer brewing
when a mate of mine told me that you could wash what we
call stubbys, 375ml small glass bottles, in the dishwasher.
Wasn't keen on the manual work of washing them by hand.

Works fine.

I have just recently got a hell of a lot of what we call
longnecks, 750ml traditional glass beer bottles which
our locals use for tomato sauce and which were really
filthy because whoever had used them had not bothered
to rinse them out after using the tomato sauce from them.

Those did need quite a few runs thru the dishwasher,
after a soak with diluted non scented bleach for a day
or so before the dishwasher, but did come good fine.

The only real problem with the dishwasher is that
it can't do PETs.

> Surely a non-eco one will get up the temperatures required for
> sterilising?

Yep, and the stubbys come out much cleaner than
you ever get doing them by hand using anything.
Really squeaky clean, literally.

"Jethro_uk" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 09 May 2014 13:49:53 +0100, Fredxxx wrote:
>
>> On 09/05/2014 10:19, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> Sorry for the crossposting --- feel free to reply to any one of the 3
>>> groups, as I read them all.
>>>
>>> I'm about to start back on some winemaking & homebrewing after a gap of
>>> several years, & my bottle of Betadine Antiseptic Solution (aqueous,
>>> povidone-iodine USP 10% w/v) is almost empty & has expired. I asked for
>>> a replacement at the local pharmacy & was told that it's been
>>> discontinued (searching the WWW agrees). I'm looking for something
>>> identical or similar under another name to use as a no-rinse sanitizer.
>>>
>>> The closest things I've found are Vetadine & Vetasept, both sold for
>>> veterinary use. They look like the same thing as Betadine, but
>>> Vetadine is only sold in small bottles at a much higher price.
>>>
>>> Comments?
>>
>> What's wrong with using a dishwasher? Surely a non-eco one will get up
>> the temperatures required for sterilising?
>
> Technically, it's not sterilising, it's "sanitising".
>
> Fitting 45 500ml bottles in a dishwasher in one go ....

You dont need to fit them all in in one go.

I just rinse with a little water the next morning,
to get the sediment out, then do the dishwasher
run ever 9 days when the beer glasses are all dirty.

"Adam Funk" > wrote in message
...
> On 2014-05-09, Jethro_uk wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 09 May 2014 13:49:53 +0100, Fredxxx wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/05/2014 10:19, Adam Funk wrote:
>>>> Sorry for the crossposting --- feel free to reply to any one of the 3
>>>> groups, as I read them all.
>>>>
>>>> I'm about to start back on some winemaking & homebrewing after a gap of
>>>> several years, & my bottle of Betadine Antiseptic Solution (aqueous,
>>>> povidone-iodine USP 10% w/v) is almost empty & has expired. I asked for
>>>> a replacement at the local pharmacy & was told that it's been
>>>> discontinued (searching the WWW agrees). I'm looking for something
>>>> identical or similar under another name to use as a no-rinse sanitizer.
>>>>
>>>> The closest things I've found are Vetadine & Vetasept, both sold for
>>>> veterinary use. They look like the same thing as Betadine, but
>>>> Vetadine is only sold in small bottles at a much higher price.
>>>>
>>>> Comments?
>>>
>>> What's wrong with using a dishwasher? Surely a non-eco one will get up
>>> the temperatures required for sterilising?
>>
>> Technically, it's not sterilising, it's "sanitising".
>>
>> Fitting 45 500ml bottles in a dishwasher in one go ....
>
> ...& the shortest programme on mine takes 45 minutes.

I don’t care how long it takes because they go in the
dishwasher with everything else and the machine does
that by itself with me doing something else entirely.

"Tim Streater" > wrote in message
.. .
> In article >, Fredxxx >
> wrote:
>
>> On 09/05/2014 14:51, Adam Funk wrote:
>> > On 2014-05-09, Jethro_uk wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, 09 May 2014 13:49:53 +0100, Fredxxx wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On 09/05/2014 10:19, Adam Funk wrote:
>> >>>> Sorry for the crossposting --- feel free to reply to any one of the
>> >>>> 3
>> >>>> groups, as I read them all.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm about to start back on some winemaking & homebrewing after a gap
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> several years, & my bottle of Betadine Antiseptic Solution (aqueous,
>> >>>> povidone-iodine USP 10% w/v) is almost empty & has expired. I asked
>> >>>> for
>> >>>> a replacement at the local pharmacy & was told that it's been
>> >>>> discontinued (searching the WWW agrees). I'm looking for something
>> >>>> identical or similar under another name to use as a no-rinse
>> >>>> sanitizer.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The closest things I've found are Vetadine & Vetasept, both sold for
>> >>>> veterinary use. They look like the same thing as Betadine, but
>> >>>> Vetadine is only sold in small bottles at a much higher price.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Comments?
>> >>>
>> >>> What's wrong with using a dishwasher? Surely a non-eco one will get
>> >>> up
>> >>> the temperatures required for sterilising?
>> >>
>> >> Technically, it's not sterilising, it's "sanitising".
>> >>
>> >> Fitting 45 500ml bottles in a dishwasher in one go ....
>> >
>> > ...& the shortest programme on mine takes 45 minutes.
>>
>> And I thought that brewing was a slow process!
>>
>> I think mine might just take 45 x 500ml bottles, certainly in 2 batches!

> I take it you put them in upside down? Each on one of the tines,
> f'rinstance?

Yep, that's how I do mine.

> How can you be sure that will get enough water in through the narrow
> opening to wash them out properly?

By deliberately not rinsing the sediment
out of some and finding it works fine.

The only reason I rinse the sediment out the
day after drinking the contents is because
I wash mine as part of the normal dishwasher
load and only do a dishwasher run every 9
days and the sediment can dry out in that time.

I find it works fine for the full sized 750ml
traditional glass bottles too, although a
mate of mine did say that his dishwasher
doesnt do the 375ml glass ones very well.

I always put mine in the bottom rack and
have noticed that there is some variation
in the holes in the spray arm between
dishwashers, but 3 of my dishwashers
all work fine.

"John Williamson" > wrote in message
...
> On 09/05/2014 20:40, Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Jethro_uk" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Fri, 09 May 2014 10:56:30 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 09/05/14 10:19, Adam Funk wrote:
>>>>> Sorry for the crossposting --- feel free to reply to any one of the 3
>>>>> groups, as I read them all.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm about to start back on some winemaking & homebrewing after a gap
>>>>> of
>>>>> several years, & my bottle of Betadine Antiseptic Solution (aqueous,
>>>>> povidone-iodine USP 10% w/v) is almost empty & has expired. I asked
>>>>> for
>>>>> a replacement at the local pharmacy & was told that it's been
>>>>> discontinued (searching the WWW agrees). I'm looking for something
>>>>> identical or similar under another name to use as a no-rinse
>>>>> sanitizer.
>>>>>
>>>>> The closest things I've found are Vetadine & Vetasept, both sold for
>>>>> veterinary use. They look like the same thing as Betadine, but
>>>>> Vetadine is only sold in small bottles at a much higher price.
>>>>>
>>>>> Comments?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> What's wrong with sodium metabisulphite?
>>>
>>> It's not "no rinse". Because I bottle my beer, trying to sanitise 45
>>> bottles, and then rinse them is a PITA. Then I read in a forum about no-
>>> rinsing, and a bottle-washing pump. You fill the pumps bowl with 500ml
>>> of
>>> no-rinse sanitiser (StarSan), and press the bottle down onto a spout
>>> which sprays the inside. Leave to dry, bottle. Been doing this for over
>>> a
>>> year now, and it's perfect.
>>
>> I use the dishwasher for my glass bottles. Both what we
>> call stubbys, 375 ml and longnecks, 750ml. Works fine.
>>
>> With the 750ml PETS I use a little non scented bleach
>> in the bottom, fill with water, let it stand overnight,
>> rinse well with cold tap water. You do have to be
>> careful to rinse well otherwise you can kill the
>> secondary fermentation and end up with flat beer.
>
> And? This *is* a UK group. The one I'm reading is, anyway. We don't
> normally do fizzy beer.

Even you lot dont normally do flat beer either.

On 2014-05-09, polygonum wrote:

> On 09/05/2014 12:17, Jethro_uk wrote:
>> I did try an iodine-based one, but it left a taste behind - ruined 45
>> bottles of beer
>
> I wonder how much iodine is left behind?
>
> A typical recommended intake is 150 micrograms a day. Significantly
> greater intake is controversial.

The instructions I have (C&P'd from the uk-homebrew mailing list in
2000) say:

You want a 500ml bottle of Standardised Betadine Antiseptic
Solution Aqueous (not the alcoholic one) made by Seton Healthcare
Group PLC.

Iodophor and Betadine are the same thing. It is available in UK
chemists, although they may have to look it up in their big book
and therefore may take a few days to come in. You need to ask for
Standardised Betadine Antiseptic Solution (Aqueous)

Use it at 12.5 - 25 ppm total iodine, or 1.25 to 2.5 ml/l of the
standard solution of 10% Povidone-iodine containing 1% iodine.

It works out at 6.5ml per gallon (ish), slosh it around for a
couple of minutes then let it drip dry. Apparently at 12.5 ppm its
a 30 second contact time, and no rinse.

If I mix the stuff at the strong end of that range, 25 ppm iodine (I'm
assuming that's w/v), I figure 150 microgrammes corresponds to 6
litres of solution. I reckon that a brief period of dripping is going
to leave at most 10 ml of solution in a bottle. Of course, there's
also the amount left in the fermenter & on other bits of equipment,
but there's no way that amounts to 6 litres of sanitizing solution in
25 litres of beer, never mind a daily dose of beer.


--
You're 100 percent correct --- it's been scientifically proven that
microwaving changes the molecular structure of food. THIS IS CALLED
COOKING, YOU NITWIT. --- Cecil Adams

On 10/05/2014 13:36, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2014-05-09, polygonum wrote:
>
>> On 09/05/2014 12:17, Jethro_uk wrote:
>>> I did try an iodine-based one, but it left a taste behind - ruined 45
>>> bottles of beer
>>
>> I wonder how much iodine is left behind?
>>
>> A typical recommended intake is 150 micrograms a day. Significantly
>> greater intake is controversial.
>
> The instructions I have (C&P'd from the uk-homebrew mailing list in
> 2000) say:
>
> You want a 500ml bottle of Standardised Betadine Antiseptic
> Solution Aqueous (not the alcoholic one) made by Seton Healthcare
> Group PLC.
>
> Iodophor and Betadine are the same thing. It is available in UK
> chemists, although they may have to look it up in their big book
> and therefore may take a few days to come in. You need to ask for
> Standardised Betadine Antiseptic Solution (Aqueous)
>
> Use it at 12.5 - 25 ppm total iodine, or 1.25 to 2.5 ml/l of the
> standard solution of 10% Povidone-iodine containing 1% iodine.
>
> It works out at 6.5ml per gallon (ish), slosh it around for a
> couple of minutes then let it drip dry. Apparently at 12.5 ppm its
> a 30 second contact time, and no rinse.
>
> If I mix the stuff at the strong end of that range, 25 ppm iodine (I'm
> assuming that's w/v), I figure 150 microgrammes corresponds to 6
> litres of solution. I reckon that a brief period of dripping is going
> to leave at most 10 ml of solution in a bottle. Of course, there's
> also the amount left in the fermenter & on other bits of equipment,
> but there's no way that amounts to 6 litres of sanitizing solution in
> 25 litres of beer, never mind a daily dose of beer.
>
>
Thank you. That is a reassurance!

Made me realise that one source might be an agricultural merchant.

http://www.evansvanodine.co.uk/shop/...lking-hygiene/

http://www.molevalleyfarmers.com/mvf...an-harmony-pre

Apparently the change from very widespread use of iodine-based teat
disinfectant has reduced iodine consumption sufficiently to raise fears
about iodine deficiency. The amount getting into milk products might
have been sufficient to tip over from deficient to replete in many of us.

--
Rod

On 2014-05-11, polygonum wrote:

> On 10/05/2014 13:36, Adam Funk wrote:
>> On 2014-05-09, polygonum wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/05/2014 12:17, Jethro_uk wrote:
>>>> I did try an iodine-based one, but it left a taste behind - ruined 45
>>>> bottles of beer
>>>
>>> I wonder how much iodine is left behind?
>>>
>>> A typical recommended intake is 150 micrograms a day. Significantly
>>> greater intake is controversial.
>>
>> The instructions I have (C&P'd from the uk-homebrew mailing list in
>> 2000) say:
>>
>> You want a 500ml bottle of Standardised Betadine Antiseptic
>> Solution Aqueous (not the alcoholic one) made by Seton Healthcare
>> Group PLC.
>>
>> Iodophor and Betadine are the same thing. It is available in UK
>> chemists, although they may have to look it up in their big book
>> and therefore may take a few days to come in. You need to ask for
>> Standardised Betadine Antiseptic Solution (Aqueous)
....
>> If I mix the stuff at the strong end of that range, 25 ppm iodine (I'm
>> assuming that's w/v), I figure 150 microgrammes corresponds to 6
>> litres of solution. I reckon that a brief period of dripping is going
>> to leave at most 10 ml of solution in a bottle. Of course, there's
>> also the amount left in the fermenter & on other bits of equipment,
>> but there's no way that amounts to 6 litres of sanitizing solution in
>> 25 litres of beer, never mind a daily dose of beer.
>>
>>
> Thank you. That is a reassurance!

Well, did you check my calculations? (I wouldn't mind.)


> Made me realise that one source might be an agricultural merchant.
>
> http://www.evansvanodine.co.uk/shop/...lking-hygiene/
>
> http://www.molevalleyfarmers.com/mvf...an-harmony-pre

Good point. I think the no-rinse iodine thing started with Iodophor,
which is sold for milking machines & teats, among US homebrewers; then
UK brewers realized Betadine was the same thing.


--
Nam Sibbyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla
pendere, et *** illi pueri dicerent: beable beable beable; respondebat
illa: doidy doidy doidy. [plorkwort]

On 2014-05-09, Tim Streater wrote:

> In article >, Fredxxx >
> wrote:
>
>> On 09/05/2014 14:51, Adam Funk wrote:
>> > On 2014-05-09, Jethro_uk wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, 09 May 2014 13:49:53 +0100, Fredxxx wrote:

>> >>> What's wrong with using a dishwasher? Surely a non-eco one will get up
>> >>> the temperatures required for sterilising?
>> >>
>> >> Technically, it's not sterilising, it's "sanitising".
>> >>
>> >> Fitting 45 500ml bottles in a dishwasher in one go ....
>> >
>> > ...& the shortest programme on mine takes 45 minutes.
>>
>> And I thought that brewing was a slow process!
>>
>> I think mine might just take 45 x 500ml bottles, certainly in 2 batches!
>
> I take it you put them in upside down? Each on one of the tines,
> f'rinstance?
>
> How can you be sure that will get enough water in through the narrow
> opening to wash them out properly?

I don't think you can. I notice that narrow-necked things like
bottles sometimes come out of the dishwasher with some gunge inside
them even though everything else is clean.


--
With the breakdown of the medieval system, the gods of chaos, lunacy,
and bad taste gained ascendancy.
--- Ignatius J Reilly

Adam Funk > wrote:

> On 2014-05-09, Tim Streater wrote:
>
>> In article >, Fredxxx >
>>
>>> On 09/05/2014 14:51, Adam Funk wrote:

>>> > On 2014-05-09, Jethro_uk wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On Fri, 09 May 2014 13:49:53 +0100, Fredxxx wrote:
>
>>> >>> What's wrong with using a dishwasher? Surely a non-eco one will
>>> >>> get up the temperatures required for sterilising?
>>> >>
>>> >> Technically, it's not sterilising, it's "sanitising".
>>> >>
>>> >> Fitting 45 500ml bottles in a dishwasher in one go ....
>>> >
>>> > ...& the shortest programme on mine takes 45 minutes.
>>>
>>> And I thought that brewing was a slow process!
>>>
>>> I think mine might just take 45 x 500ml bottles, certainly in 2
>>> batches!
>>
>> I take it you put them in upside down? Each on one of the tines,
>> f'rinstance?
>>
>> How can you be sure that will get enough water in through the narrow
>> opening to wash them out properly?
>
> I don't think you can. I notice that narrow-necked things like
> bottles sometimes come out of the dishwasher with some gunge inside
> them even though everything else is clean.

For sanitizing large batches of bottles, it's worth checking out the
homemade no-rinse solution that Charlie Talley of Five Star describes on
the March 29 2007 podcast he

http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.ph...ing-radio-2007

I've done it, it's extremely easy to mix up 5 or 10 gallons which works
great for soaking big batches of bottles; you just need to follow the
simple safety recommendations. I wouldn't do it unless the bottles were
already well cleaned inside and out, of course.

Five Star makes Star San, and I don't think Talley would talk about this
unless he thought it worked. I generally use Star San, but I think this
is a valid alternative.

All that junk was invented to separate dumb yups form their Black Visor Cards. How do you speel Clorox?

On 2014-05-09, Jethro_uk wrote:

> On Fri, 09 May 2014 10:56:30 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

>> What's wrong with sodium metabisulphite?
>
> It's not "no rinse". Because I bottle my beer, trying to sanitise 45
> bottles, and then rinse them is a PITA. Then I read in a forum about no-
> rinsing, and a bottle-washing pump. You fill the pumps bowl with 500ml of
> no-rinse sanitiser (StarSan), and press the bottle down onto a spout
> which sprays the inside. Leave to dry, bottle. Been doing this for over a
> year now, and it's perfect.

Is it the Avvinatore model?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Home-Brew-Bo.../dp/B002H3UWR4



--
In the 1970s, people began receiving utility bills for
-£999,999,996.32 and it became harder to sustain the
myth of the infallible electronic brain. (Verity Stob)

On 09/05/2014 12:19, Jethro_uk wrote:
> On Fri, 09 May 2014 10:56:30 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:
>

>
> It's not "no rinse". Because I bottle my beer, trying to sanitise 45
> bottles, and then rinse them is a PITA. Then I read in a forum about no-
> rinsing, and a bottle-washing pump. You fill the pumps bowl with 500ml of
> no-rinse sanitiser (StarSan), and press the bottle down onto a spout
> which sprays the inside. Leave to dry, bottle. Been doing this for over a
> year now, and it's perfect.
>
If you are leaving bottles to drip drain & dry, then Milton or Sodium
Metabisulphite would work just the same.

Hell in m y wine I add metabisulphite to stabilise ... the minuscule
amount left after drying won't harm your beer.

--
UK SelfBuild: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Selfbuild/