Winemaking (rec.crafts.winemaking) Discussion of the process, recipes, tips, techniques and general exchange of lore on the process, methods and history of wine making. Includes traditional grape wines, sparkling wines & champagnes.

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Default Maximum sugar without choking fermentation?

Novice has started making ginger beer using this on-line recipe.

http://www.channel4.com/4food/recipe...er-beer-recipe

He suggests adding a little honey. Would there be any purpose to this, other
than very slightly changing the taste?

I'm using Allison's dried baking yeast which I know is not as alcohol
tolerant as wine yeast. I understand that 100 gm of granulated sugar to one
litre of water gives about 5% of alcohol by volume roughly.

I would like to increase the alcohol content slightly, so just as a rough
guide; what would likely be the most sugar I could add per litre at the
onset of the process, without the fermentation process choking up?



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Default Maximum sugar without choking fermentation?

In article >,
"Dave West" > wrote:

> Novice has started making ginger beer using this on-line recipe.
>
> http://www.channel4.com/4food/recipe...ngstall/ginger
> -beer-recipe
>
> He suggests adding a little honey. Would there be any purpose to this, other
> than very slightly changing the taste?


It appears to have an effect on bubble size in carbonation, IME.

> I'm using Allison's dried baking yeast which I know is not as alcohol
> tolerant as wine yeast. I understand that 100 gm of granulated sugar to one
> litre of water gives about 5% of alcohol by volume roughly.
>
> I would like to increase the alcohol content slightly, so just as a rough
> guide; what would likely be the most sugar I could add per litre at the
> onset of the process, without the fermentation process choking up?


Without getting too far into what I think of your process (beer/wine
yeast is cheap and easy to find, for a start...)

Per some reference, 2.7g sugar in 1 liter increases specific gravity one
point(0.001)

Water is 1.000 and beers tend to be easy in the 1.030-70 range, not too
bad 1.070 to 1.100 and starting to get dodgy (but still manageable with
care, and perhaps some nutrients) from 1.100-1.130.

So, 270 grams per liter should work without difficulty, and you might be
able to manage a bit more. Most people find that making rocket fuel
(maximizing alcohol content) is less satisfying than lower alcohol
content beverages that are pleasant to drink, but do what you like, and
draw your own conclusions. It may need 4-6 years of aging to get to a
drinkable stage if you push it too much. Drinking two pints of something
that's half the % alcohol will get you just as drunk as one high % pint,
and takes a lot less time to reach pleasant drinkability.

You can also play games with the yeast by adding more sugar gradually as
the ferment progresses.

--
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Default Maximum sugar without choking fermentation?


"Ecnerwal" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Dave West" > wrote:
>
>> Novice has started making ginger beer using this on-line recipe.
>>
>> http://www.channel4.com/4food/recipe...ngstall/ginger
>> -beer-recipe
>>
>> He suggests adding a little honey. Would there be any purpose to this,
>> other
>> than very slightly changing the taste?

>
> It appears to have an effect on bubble size in carbonation, IME.
>
>> I'm using Allison's dried baking yeast which I know is not as alcohol
>> tolerant as wine yeast. I understand that 100 gm of granulated sugar to
>> one
>> litre of water gives about 5% of alcohol by volume roughly.
>>
>> I would like to increase the alcohol content slightly, so just as a rough
>> guide; what would likely be the most sugar I could add per litre at the
>> onset of the process, without the fermentation process choking up?

>
> Without getting too far into what I think of your process (beer/wine
> yeast is cheap and easy to find, for a start...)
>
> Per some reference, 2.7g sugar in 1 liter increases specific gravity one
> point(0.001)
>
> Water is 1.000 and beers tend to be easy in the 1.030-70 range, not too
> bad 1.070 to 1.100 and starting to get dodgy (but still manageable with
> care, and perhaps some nutrients) from 1.100-1.130.
>
> So, 270 grams per liter should work without difficulty, and you might be
> able to manage a bit more. Most people find that making rocket fuel
> (maximizing alcohol content) is less satisfying than lower alcohol
> content beverages that are pleasant to drink, but do what you like, and
> draw your own conclusions. It may need 4-6 years of aging to get to a
> drinkable stage if you push it too much. Drinking two pints of something
> that's half the % alcohol will get you just as drunk as one high % pint,
> and takes a lot less time to reach pleasant drinkability.
>
> You can also play games with the yeast by adding more sugar gradually as
> the ferment progresses.
>

================================================== ========================

Thanks. So 270 gms per litre is about 10% of alcohol by volume? I had no
idea bakers yeast could ferment to such a high level.

Actually in the question i was wondering more what would be the maximum
sugar level bakers yeast could tolerate, when adding all the sugar *at one
go*. (rather than adding it in stages). Any idea on that one please ?

Also since i would only want to go up to say 5% by volume of alcohol at the
most, is there any advantage in paying more for a wine yeast as opposed to a
bakers yeast ? Would there for instance be any difference in the taste of
the final product?


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Default Maximum sugar without choking fermentation?

In article >,
"Dave West" > wrote:
> Actually in the question i was wondering more what would be the maximum
> sugar level bakers yeast could tolerate, when adding all the sugar *at one
> go*. (rather than adding it in stages). Any idea on that one please ?


Right, now you sound suspiciously trollish. You're making 5% but your
wondering how high it can go...Feel free to experiment. 10% is no big
deal. Not an experiment I care to run - results may vary with the brand,
and also the lot, of baking yeast, since it's not selected for alcohol
tolerance particularly, so it will probably vary from lot to lot. 12% or
so is generally a safe bet for the low end for almost any yeast, with
adequate time. Take a bunch of clean half-litre or litre bottles, load
them up with varying amounts of sugar, inoculate with yeast, cover the
tops, come back and measure in a few months. The highest ones will take
a long time to finish.

> Also since i would only want to go up to say 5% by volume of alcohol at the
> most, is there any advantage in paying more for a wine yeast as opposed to a
> bakers yeast ? Would there for instance be any difference in the taste of
> the final product?


Yes, otherwise there would not be 50 or more easy to find and hundreds
slightly less easy to find varieties of beer (ale & lager) and wine
yeasts. Bread yeast is more or less like a mongrel dog - all it's
selected for is the ability to eat sugar and generate carbon dioxide.
Ale, Lager and Wine yeasts are all selected for flavor produced -
alcohol tolerance, when it is even a factor, is secondary. They also eat
sugar and produce carbon dioxide, but that's not what they are selected
for. The oddballs that have been selected first for high alcohol
tolerance (25%+) for the home-distilling and fuel-ethanol crowd are
generally reported to produce a vile-tasting product (which doesn't
matter so much if all that is being done is to get the alcohol out of it
with a still.)

For 3-7% work at room or warmish cellar temperatures, I tend to choose
ale yeast. It often doesn't cost any more than bread yeast, and the
ingredients cost far more than the yeast. If you are feeling
particularly parsimonious, you can re-use the same yeast for several
batches, if you are careful about sanitation. If you have a cold cellar,
lager is good.

If you're really, really cheap, you can just toss in some unwashed
grapes (with stems and all is better) or apples and play natural yeast
lottery with them. People sometimes get great results, other times not
so great - that's why there is a fermentation yeast industry for more
predictable results...

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.
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Two pounds sugar per gallon of water will max out the bread yeast at around 12% if all goes well..but would require some yeast nutrients other than the small amount of ginger in the wort or at least would seem so. Now this guy seems to think yeast love ginger so maybe not..lol. If the yeast cant handle all the sugar the finished product will be real sweet to the taste. If they can handle all the sugar it will not be sweet but will be below max on the ABV (alcohol by volume) Not sure what the honey could add other than expense. Here is a recipe for a ginger hooch sugar wash for a moonshine run. Might give you some ideas to work with. If you skip the final essential extraction it should wind up as some version of ginger wine..beer or whatever a person might want to call it. The cereal in the recipe should be a good yeast nutrient even though the ferment it is well below the threshold of maximum sugar content. Should also add some extra flavor. PS Edit..make that 1.5 lbs sugar per gallon for bread yeast. I was quoting for distillers yeast..sorry. Been so long since I have messed with ale yeast not quite sure. Its not designed very alcohol tolerant.

Home Distiller • View topic - ginger sugar head



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave West View Post
Novice has started making ginger beer using this on-line recipe.

Ginger beer recipe - Channel4 - 4Food

He suggests adding a little honey. Would there be any purpose to this, other
than very slightly changing the taste?

I'm using Allison's dried baking yeast which I know is not as alcohol
tolerant as wine yeast. I understand that 100 gm of granulated sugar to one
litre of water gives about 5% of alcohol by volume roughly.

I would like to increase the alcohol content slightly, so just as a rough
guide; what would likely be the most sugar I could add per litre at the
onset of the process, without the fermentation process choking up?

Last edited by bigwheel : 25-02-2013 at 02:05 AM


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Default Maximum sugar without choking fermentation?


"Ecnerwal" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Dave West" > wrote:
>> Actually in the question i was wondering more what would be the maximum
>> sugar level bakers yeast could tolerate, when adding all the sugar *at
>> one
>> go*. (rather than adding it in stages). Any idea on that one please ?

>
> Right, now you sound suspiciously trollish. You're making 5% but your
> wondering how high it can go...Feel free to experiment. 10% is no big
> deal. Not an experiment I care to run - results may vary with the brand,
> and also the lot, of baking yeast, since it's not selected for alcohol
> tolerance particularly, so it will probably vary from lot to lot. 12% or
> so is generally a safe bet for the low end for almost any yeast, with
> adequate time. Take a bunch of clean half-litre or litre bottles, load
> them up with varying amounts of sugar, inoculate with yeast, cover the
> tops, come back and measure in a few months. The highest ones will take
> a long time to finish.
>
>> Also since i would only want to go up to say 5% by volume of alcohol at
>> the
>> most, is there any advantage in paying more for a wine yeast as opposed
>> to a
>> bakers yeast ? Would there for instance be any difference in the taste of
>> the final product?

>
> Yes, otherwise there would not be 50 or more easy to find and hundreds
> slightly less easy to find varieties of beer (ale & lager) and wine
> yeasts. Bread yeast is more or less like a mongrel dog - all it's
> selected for is the ability to eat sugar and generate carbon dioxide.
> Ale, Lager and Wine yeasts are all selected for flavor produced -
> alcohol tolerance, when it is even a factor, is secondary. They also eat
> sugar and produce carbon dioxide, but that's not what they are selected
> for. The oddballs that have been selected first for high alcohol
> tolerance (25%+) for the home-distilling and fuel-ethanol crowd are
> generally reported to produce a vile-tasting product (which doesn't
> matter so much if all that is being done is to get the alcohol out of it
> with a still.)
>
> For 3-7% work at room or warmish cellar temperatures, I tend to choose
> ale yeast. It often doesn't cost any more than bread yeast, and the
> ingredients cost far more than the yeast. If you are feeling
> particularly parsimonious, you can re-use the same yeast for several
> batches, if you are careful about sanitation. If you have a cold cellar,
> lager is good.
>
> If you're really, really cheap, you can just toss in some unwashed
> grapes (with stems and all is better) or apples and play natural yeast
> lottery with them. People sometimes get great results, other times not
> so great - that's why there is a fermentation yeast industry for more
> predictable results...
> --
> Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
> Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go
> away.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Ecnerwal" thanks for your detailed response. you might be thinking about
trolls too much and no longer appreciate there is a lot for a beginner to
get their mind around all the variables. Thanks for your help.


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Default Maximum sugar without choking fermentation?


"Dave West" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ecnerwal" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >,
>> "Dave West" > wrote:
>>> Actually in the question i was wondering more what would be the maximum
>>> sugar level bakers yeast could tolerate, when adding all the sugar *at
>>> one
>>> go*. (rather than adding it in stages). Any idea on that one please ?

>>
>> Right, now you sound suspiciously trollish. You're making 5% but your
>> wondering how high it can go...Feel free to experiment. 10% is no big
>> deal. Not an experiment I care to run - results may vary with the brand,
>> and also the lot, of baking yeast, since it's not selected for alcohol
>> tolerance particularly, so it will probably vary from lot to lot. 12% or
>> so is generally a safe bet for the low end for almost any yeast, with
>> adequate time. Take a bunch of clean half-litre or litre bottles, load
>> them up with varying amounts of sugar, inoculate with yeast, cover the
>> tops, come back and measure in a few months. The highest ones will take
>> a long time to finish.
>>
>>> Also since i would only want to go up to say 5% by volume of alcohol at
>>> the
>>> most, is there any advantage in paying more for a wine yeast as opposed
>>> to a
>>> bakers yeast ? Would there for instance be any difference in the taste
>>> of
>>> the final product?

>>
>> Yes, otherwise there would not be 50 or more easy to find and hundreds
>> slightly less easy to find varieties of beer (ale & lager) and wine
>> yeasts. Bread yeast is more or less like a mongrel dog - all it's
>> selected for is the ability to eat sugar and generate carbon dioxide.
>> Ale, Lager and Wine yeasts are all selected for flavor produced -
>> alcohol tolerance, when it is even a factor, is secondary. They also eat
>> sugar and produce carbon dioxide, but that's not what they are selected
>> for. The oddballs that have been selected first for high alcohol
>> tolerance (25%+) for the home-distilling and fuel-ethanol crowd are
>> generally reported to produce a vile-tasting product (which doesn't
>> matter so much if all that is being done is to get the alcohol out of it
>> with a still.)
>>
>> For 3-7% work at room or warmish cellar temperatures, I tend to choose
>> ale yeast. It often doesn't cost any more than bread yeast, and the
>> ingredients cost far more than the yeast. If you are feeling
>> particularly parsimonious, you can re-use the same yeast for several
>> batches, if you are careful about sanitation. If you have a cold cellar,
>> lager is good.
>>
>> If you're really, really cheap, you can just toss in some unwashed
>> grapes (with stems and all is better) or apples and play natural yeast
>> lottery with them. People sometimes get great results, other times not
>> so great - that's why there is a fermentation yeast industry for more
>> predictable results...
>> --
>> Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
>> Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go
>> away.

> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Ecnerwal" thanks for your detailed response. you might be thinking about
> trolls too much and no longer appreciate there is a lot for a beginner to
> get their mind around all the variables. Thanks for your help.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will experiment, but if you know the basics you won't be falling off the
edge disaster-wise. A friends girlfriend went to a great deal of trouble
recently to make a brew, but didn't know about keeping the lids on all the
time; so the vinegar fly got in, its the simple things that trip the
beginner.

One last question which i guess might sound even more trollish.. Does it
make any real difference whether you add a lemon at the beginning or at the
end? I've tried a google on this but can't phrase the question in a way that
brings results that obviously relate. Adding at the end will bring a
fresher lemon taste i guess, but does adding at the beginning add in any way
to the actual fermantation process? Thanks.


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Default Maximum sugar without choking fermentation?

On 2/23/2013 4:45 PM, Dave West wrote:
> I will experiment, but if you know the basics you won't be falling off the
> edge disaster-wise. A friends girlfriend went to a great deal of trouble
> recently to make a brew, but didn't know about keeping the lids on all the
> time; so the vinegar fly got in, its the simple things that trip the
> beginner.


I don't know about Ecnerwal's reaction about trolling, but is there some
reason you want to go with this recipe?

http://www.channel4.com/4food/recipe...er-beer-recipe

Because it's a ginger ale recipe. It doesn't seem like it's supposed to
actually ferment out and have anymore than incidental alcohol content.
I admit I haven't tried, so maybe I'm off base here, but it sounds a
little revolting if you are planning on seriously fermenting that out to
have a lot of alcohol. I'm imagining Zima or something. I would at
least consider making a mead or something like that - something that's
popular, well documented, and you can get help and advice with.
Preferably, I would suggest buying a simple extract beer kit to start.
Get the process surrounding mashing down, then try mashing, then try
doing other odd things.

> One last question which i guess might sound even more trollish.. Does it
> make any real difference whether you add a lemon at the beginning or at the
> end?


Most probably, but I have no idea how.

My best jab at that question: it will ferment out more completely if you
put it in at the beginning, and have a smoother and mellower flavor.
But the truth is, change anything and you change your outcome, and since
I never did this, I don't have a grasp on what the results will be. And....

> I've tried a google on this but can't phrase the question in a way that
> brings results that obviously relate. Adding at the end will bring a
> fresher lemon taste i guess, but does adding at the beginning add in any way
> to the actual fermantation process? Thanks.


.....what do you call and "end" anyway? If you put it in at the
beginning, it will ferment longer. If you put it in before you bottle
it, it will ferment in the bottle, contributing to carbonation, besides
other flavors. You don't say if you're doing a secondary fermentation.

Anyway, if you're still not convinced to try something else, I suggest
just putting the lemon in at the beginning to reduce risk of a sour
lemon flavor. Also, read up on yeast nutrition and buy the proper
nutrients because table sugar and a little bit of fruit/ginger is not
going to ferment much.
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Default Maximum sugar without choking fermentation?


"Bolwerk" > wrote in message
...
> On 2/23/2013 4:45 PM, Dave West wrote:
>> I will experiment, but if you know the basics you won't be falling off
>> the
>> edge disaster-wise. A friends girlfriend went to a great deal of trouble
>> recently to make a brew, but didn't know about keeping the lids on all
>> the
>> time; so the vinegar fly got in, its the simple things that trip the
>> beginner.

>
> I don't know about Ecnerwal's reaction about trolling, but is there some
> reason you want to go with this recipe?
>
> http://www.channel4.com/4food/recipe...er-beer-recipe
>
> Because it's a ginger ale recipe. It doesn't seem like it's supposed to
> actually ferment out and have anymore than incidental alcohol content. I
> admit I haven't tried, so maybe I'm off base here, but it sounds a little
> revolting if you are planning on seriously fermenting that out to have a
> lot of alcohol. I'm imagining Zima or something. I would at least
> consider making a mead or something like that - something that's popular,
> well documented, and you can get help and advice with. Preferably, I would
> suggest buying a simple extract beer kit to start. Get the process
> surrounding mashing down, then try mashing, then try doing other odd
> things.
>
>> One last question which i guess might sound even more trollish.. Does it
>> make any real difference whether you add a lemon at the beginning or at
>> the
>> end?

>
> Most probably, but I have no idea how.
>
> My best jab at that question: it will ferment out more completely if you
> put it in at the beginning, and have a smoother and mellower flavor. But
> the truth is, change anything and you change your outcome, and since I
> never did this, I don't have a grasp on what the results will be. And....
>
>> I've tried a google on this but can't phrase the question in a way that
>> brings results that obviously relate. Adding at the end will bring a
>> fresher lemon taste i guess, but does adding at the beginning add in any
>> way
>> to the actual fermantation process? Thanks.

>
> ....what do you call and "end" anyway? If you put it in at the beginning,
> it will ferment longer. If you put it in before you bottle it, it will
> ferment in the bottle, contributing to carbonation, besides other flavors.
> You don't say if you're doing a secondary fermentation.
>
> Anyway, if you're still not convinced to try something else, I suggest
> just putting the lemon in at the beginning to reduce risk of a sour lemon
> flavor. Also, read up on yeast nutrition and buy the proper nutrients
> because table sugar and a little bit of fruit/ginger is not going to
> ferment much.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks. However Grated ginger, yeast, table sugar, and lemon and it
ferments like crazy.


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Default Maximum sugar without choking fermentation?

On 2/24/2013 12:04 PM, Dave West wrote:
> Thanks. However Grated ginger, yeast, table sugar, and lemon and it
> ferments like crazy.


I can believe it ferments, but the results might be vastly better if you
add some yeast nutrients.


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Default Maximum sugar without choking fermentation?


"Bolwerk" > wrote in message
...
> On 2/24/2013 12:04 PM, Dave West wrote:
>> Thanks. However Grated ginger, yeast, table sugar, and lemon and it
>> ferments like crazy.

>
> I can believe it ferments, but the results might be vastly better if you
> add some yeast nutrients.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks. I read somewhere long time ago that the yeasty sediment from the
previous brew acts as a *good* yeast nutrient, is that true please?

If that is not the case, are there any natural nutrients that could be used
instead of the the quite expensive tiny packets from the shops?


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Default Maximum sugar without choking fermentation?

On 2/25/2013 11:56 AM, Dave West wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 2/24/2013 12:04 PM, Dave West wrote:
>>> Thanks. However Grated ginger, yeast, table sugar, and lemon and
>>> it ferments like crazy.

>>
>> I can believe it ferments, but the results might be vastly better
>> if you add some yeast nutrients.

> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Thanks. I read somewhere long time ago that the yeasty sediment
> from the previous brew acts as a *good* yeast nutrient, is that true
> please?


I'm not 100% sure how to answer this, but I'll try to answer pending a
better answer from someone else....

Could be good, but I'm not sure. Lots of things are good. I'd be more
concerned about whether or not it's complete in your case. Maybe you're
thinking of...

> If that is not the case, are there any natural nutrients that could
> be used instead of the the quite expensive tiny packets from the
> shops?


....yeast ghosts/hulls/extract. This supposedly works with mead, anyway.
It's a nutrient derived from yeast themselves, perhaps found in health
stores. Add an ounce or so per 5 gallons. My friend who made mead used
diammonium phosphate, not sure how much. He has also used some kind of
nutrition tablet.

Maybe you already mentioned not living near a homebrew store already,
but they have various yeast nutrients for sale usually containing a mix
of zinc, gypsum, vitamins, and other things.

Things might also depend on your water, and maybe ideally you would know
your water's chemistry.
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Default Maximum sugar without choking fermentation?

Dave West > wrote:

> Novice has started making ginger beer using this on-line recipe.
> http://www.channel4.com/4food/recipe...er-beer-recipe
>
> He suggests adding a little honey. Would there be any purpose to this, other
> than very slightly changing the taste?


He's only adding a tablespoon (15 ml) to two liters. So it's probably
just a taste thing.

> I'm using Allison's dried baking yeast which I know is not as alcohol
> tolerant as wine yeast.


Bad choice!

> I understand that 100 gm of granulated sugar to one litre of water
> gives about 5% of alcohol by volume roughly. I would like to increase
> the alcohol content slightly, so just as a rough guide;


Grams ABV SG
----- ----- -----
100 5.17 1.037
150 7.69 1.056
200 10.12 1.075
250 12.46 1.094
300 14.72 1.113
350 16.91 1.132

> what would likely be the most sugar I could add per litre at the
> onset of the process, without the fermentation process choking up?


It's called 'Sugar Shock' and it depends on the yeast you're using.
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Default Maximum sugar without choking fermentation?


"Dick Adams" > wrote in message
...
> Dave West > wrote:
>
>> Novice has started making ginger beer using this on-line recipe.
>> http://www.channel4.com/4food/recipe...er-beer-recipe
>>
>> He suggests adding a little honey. Would there be any purpose to this,
>> other
>> than very slightly changing the taste?

>
> He's only adding a tablespoon (15 ml) to two liters. So it's probably
> just a taste thing.
>
>> I'm using Allison's dried baking yeast which I know is not as alcohol
>> tolerant as wine yeast.

>
> Bad choice!
>
>> I understand that 100 gm of granulated sugar to one litre of water
>> gives about 5% of alcohol by volume roughly. I would like to increase
>> the alcohol content slightly, so just as a rough guide;

>
> Grams ABV SG
> ----- ----- -----
> 100 5.17 1.037
> 150 7.69 1.056
> 200 10.12 1.075
> 250 12.46 1.094
> 300 14.72 1.113
> 350 16.91 1.132
>
>> what would likely be the most sugar I could add per litre at the
>> onset of the process, without the fermentation process choking up?

>
> It's called 'Sugar Shock' and it depends on the yeast you're using.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many thanks. Would you be able to explain to a complete novice why the dried
baking yeast is not advisable? I've made a couple of batches now using
125gm sugar per litre, one lot using baking yeast and one using a wine
yeast.

For the life of me, i cannot tell the difference between the end results of
the two; either in terms of taste, length of fermentation or anything else.

The baking yeast is a fraction of the cost, so in terms of making this
simple low alcohol brew (6.0 ABV approx) brew; would you still suggest I
really need to spend the extra on the wine yeast? Thanks.


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"Dave West" > wrote

> Many thanks. Would you be able to explain to a complete novice why the
> dried baking yeast is not advisable? I've made a couple of batches
> now using 125gm sugar per litre, one lot using baking yeast and one
> using a wine yeast.
>
> For the life of me, i cannot tell the difference between the end
> results of the two; either in terms of taste, length of fermentation
> or anything else.
>
> The baking yeast is a fraction of the cost, so in terms of making this
> simple low alcohol brew (6.0 ABV approx) brew; would you still suggest
> I really need to spend the extra on the wine yeast? Thanks.


Home brewing forums are filled with comments that it's horrible,
terrible, no good, very bad idea, but more research says it's just not
the best idea.

Baking yeast has been used to make good quality beer. Here's a video on
basicbrewing.com about using bread yeast to make beer (and beer yeast to
make bread).

http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.ph...007---trading-
places-beer-and-bread-yeast

They said the beer was good stuff.

There are reasons not to use baking yeast though. The temperature ranges
for brewing aren't clear, so there's sort of a roll of the dice as to
making weird tasting stuff. It's also unclear whether the sanitation is
as good for bread yeast as brewing yeast, so there's the possibility of a
higher risk of spoiled brew. It also sounds like baking yeast tends not
to settle as well as brewing yeast, and suspended yeast can give a bunch
of unpleasant flavors.

It's possible to reuse yeast several times, so it may be cost-efficient
to buy a cheap packet of brewing yeast and then re-fermenting with the
sediment left after a batch ferments. Google the words --> repitch yeast
slurry <-- and you can get more information on good practices.


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"baloonon" > wrote in message
...
> "Dave West" > wrote
>
>> Many thanks. Would you be able to explain to a complete novice why the
>> dried baking yeast is not advisable? I've made a couple of batches
>> now using 125gm sugar per litre, one lot using baking yeast and one
>> using a wine yeast.
>>
>> For the life of me, i cannot tell the difference between the end
>> results of the two; either in terms of taste, length of fermentation
>> or anything else.
>>
>> The baking yeast is a fraction of the cost, so in terms of making this
>> simple low alcohol brew (6.0 ABV approx) brew; would you still suggest
>> I really need to spend the extra on the wine yeast? Thanks.

>
> Home brewing forums are filled with comments that it's horrible,
> terrible, no good, very bad idea, but more research says it's just not
> the best idea.
>
> Baking yeast has been used to make good quality beer. Here's a video on
> basicbrewing.com about using bread yeast to make beer (and beer yeast to
> make bread).
>
> http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.ph...007---trading-
> places-beer-and-bread-yeast
>
> They said the beer was good stuff.
>
> There are reasons not to use baking yeast though. The temperature ranges
> for brewing aren't clear, so there's sort of a roll of the dice as to
> making weird tasting stuff. It's also unclear whether the sanitation is
> as good for bread yeast as brewing yeast, so there's the possibility of a
> higher risk of spoiled brew. It also sounds like baking yeast tends not
> to settle as well as brewing yeast, and suspended yeast can give a bunch
> of unpleasant flavors.
>
> It's possible to reuse yeast several times, so it may be cost-efficient
> to buy a cheap packet of brewing yeast and then re-fermenting with the
> sediment left after a batch ferments. Google the words --> repitch yeast
> slurry <-- and you can get more information on good practices.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many thanks. All your information is like gold-dust to me as a beginner.

Somthing else i have been wondering about is that i've seen that raisins can
be used as a yeast nutrient. I've heard someone mention its a good idea to
chop them small and boil and cool before adding to the brew? Is boiling
really a good idea or might it destroy something essential in the raisins?
Thanks.


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Default Maximum sugar without choking fermentation?

Dave West > wrote:
> "Dick Adams" > wrote:
>> Dave West > wrote:


>>> ...
>>> I'm using Allison's dried baking yeast which I know is not as alcohol
>>> tolerant as wine yeast.


>> Bad choice!


>>> I understand that 100 gm of granulated sugar to one litre of water
>>> gives about 5% of alcohol by volume roughly. I would like to increase
>>> the alcohol content slightly, so just as a rough guide;


>> Grams ABV SG
>> ----- ----- -----
>> 100 5.17 1.037
>> 150 7.69 1.056
>> 200 10.12 1.075
>> 250 12.46 1.094
>> 300 14.72 1.113
>> 350 16.91 1.132


>>> what would likely be the most sugar I could add per litre at the
>>> onset of the process, without the fermentation process choking up?


>> It's called 'Sugar Shock' and it depends on the yeast you're using.


> Many thanks. Would you be able to explain to a complete novice why thed
> dried baking yeast is not advisable? I've made a couple of batches
> now using 125gm sugar per litre, one lot using baking yeast and one
> using a wine yeast.
>
> For the life of me, i cannot tell the difference between the end results
> of the two; either in terms of taste, length of fermentation or anything
> else.
>
> The baking yeast is a fraction of the cost, so in terms of making this
> simple low alcohol brew (6.0 ABV approx) brew; would you still suggest I
> really need to spend the extra on the wine yeast? Thanks.


Several years ago I posted a recipe for Cheateu Trailer Park and, without
searching for it, I am certain the recipe used bakers yeast. Why bakers
yeast? Because I didn't care how it tasted, how sweet or how dry its
finish was, and whether or not it had fruity, earthy, or no esters. So
if you don't care about those issues, go ahead and use bakers yeast.

Dick
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"Dick Adams" > wrote in message
...
> Dave West > wrote:
>> "Dick Adams" > wrote:
>>> Dave West > wrote:

>
>>>> ...
>>>> I'm using Allison's dried baking yeast which I know is not as alcohol
>>>> tolerant as wine yeast.

>
>>> Bad choice!

>
>>>> I understand that 100 gm of granulated sugar to one litre of water
>>>> gives about 5% of alcohol by volume roughly. I would like to increase
>>>> the alcohol content slightly, so just as a rough guide;

>
>>> Grams ABV SG
>>> ----- ----- -----
>>> 100 5.17 1.037
>>> 150 7.69 1.056
>>> 200 10.12 1.075
>>> 250 12.46 1.094
>>> 300 14.72 1.113
>>> 350 16.91 1.132

>
>>>> what would likely be the most sugar I could add per litre at the
>>>> onset of the process, without the fermentation process choking up?

>
>>> It's called 'Sugar Shock' and it depends on the yeast you're using.

>
>> Many thanks. Would you be able to explain to a complete novice why thed
>> dried baking yeast is not advisable? I've made a couple of batches
>> now using 125gm sugar per litre, one lot using baking yeast and one
>> using a wine yeast.
>>
>> For the life of me, i cannot tell the difference between the end results
>> of the two; either in terms of taste, length of fermentation or anything
>> else.
>>
>> The baking yeast is a fraction of the cost, so in terms of making this
>> simple low alcohol brew (6.0 ABV approx) brew; would you still suggest I
>> really need to spend the extra on the wine yeast? Thanks.

>
> Several years ago I posted a recipe for Cheateu Trailer Park and, without
> searching for it, I am certain the recipe used bakers yeast. Why bakers
> yeast? Because I didn't care how it tasted, how sweet or how dry its
> finish was, and whether or not it had fruity, earthy, or no esters. So
> if you don't care about those issues, go ahead and use bakers yeast.
> Dick

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because I didn't care how it tasted, how sweet or how dry its
> finish was, and whether or not it had fruity, earthy, or no esters. So
> if you don't care about those issues, go ahead and use bakers yeast.
> Dick


Dick you dont want to turn me into an obsessive do you? It's well known the
*arbitrary* nature of the conscious brain can overide sensory perception, so
you no longer really know what you are tasting.







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Dave West > wrote:
>"Dick Adams" > wrote in message
>> Dave West > wrote:


>>> For the life of me, i cannot tell the difference between the end results
>>> of the two; either in terms of taste, length of fermentation or anything
>>> else.
>>>
>>> The baking yeast is a fraction of the cost, so in terms of making this
>>> simple low alcohol brew (6.0 ABV approx) brew; would you still suggest I
>>> really need to spend the extra on the wine yeast? Thanks.


>> Several years ago I posted a recipe for Chateau Trailer Park and, without
>> searching for it, I am certain the recipe used bakers yeast. Why bakers
>> yeast? Because I didn't care how it tasted, how sweet or how dry its
>> finish was, and whether or not it had fruity, earthy, or no esters. So
>> if you don't care about those issues, go ahead and use bakers yeast.


> Dick you dont want to turn me into an obsessive do you? ...


Why not?

CORRECTION:
I used Bakers Yeast for the 2 liter batch and Strand's Turbo Yeast for
the 5 gallon batch.
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Default Maximum sugar without choking fermentation?

On 2/28/2013 4:40 PM, baloonon wrote:
> It's also unclear whether the sanitation is as good for bread yeast
> as brewing yeast, so there's the possibility of a higher risk of
> spoiled brew. It also sounds like baking yeast tends not to settle
> as well as brewing yeast, and suspended yeast can give a bunch of
> unpleasant flavors.


That settlement point is interesting. I've heard a lot of people
complain about bread yeast in beer that the aftertaste is a bit like a
burp after having some really yeasty bread. It sounds like it can be
done, carefully, but doesn't sound like something worth the trouble.

Maybe finings and a crash cooling would help, but if you're too cheap...

> It's possible to reuse yeast several times, so it may be
> cost-efficient to buy a cheap packet of brewing yeast and then
> re-fermenting with the sediment left after a batch ferments. Google
> the words --> repitch yeast slurry<-- and you can get more
> information on good practices.


....to get a proper yeast, I doubt you want to drop the money on finings
or a freezer. :-p



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On Monday, February 4, 2013 9:59:42 AM UTC-8, Dave West wrote:
> Novice has started making ginger beer using this on-line recipe.
>
>
>
> http://www.channel4.com/4food/recipe...er-beer-recipe
>
>
>
> He suggests adding a little honey. Would there be any purpose to this, other
>
> than very slightly changing the taste?
>
>
>
> I'm using Allison's dried baking yeast which I know is not as alcohol
>
> tolerant as wine yeast. I understand that 100 gm of granulated sugar to one
>
> litre of water gives about 5% of alcohol by volume roughly.
>
>
>
> I would like to increase the alcohol content slightly, so just as a rough
>
> guide; what would likely be the most sugar I could add per litre at the
>
> onset of the process, without the fermentation process choking up?



The $85c Champaign yeast to start a batch of "hooch" is a by far better investment than the bakers yeast. Experience has taught me many lessons
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I agree on the champagne yeast. It is alcohol tolerant up to perhaps
18%.

If all you are looking for is high alcohol, try the turbo yeast made
for home distillilation. It's VERY alcohol tolerant.

Don't expect a smooth wine if you jack up the alcohol content, though.
It will have a bite that doesn't belong to wines.

Donald

On Thu, 5 Dec 2013 22:55:22 -0800 (PST), dncswclds
> wrote:

>On Monday, February 4, 2013 9:59:42 AM UTC-8, Dave West wrote:
>> Novice has started making ginger beer using this on-line recipe.
>>
>>
>> I would like to increase the alcohol content slightly, so just as a rough
>>
>> guide; what would likely be the most sugar I could add per litre at the
>>
>> onset of the process, without the fermentation process choking up?

>
>
>The $85c Champaign yeast to start a batch of "hooch" is a by far better investment than the bakers yeast. Experience has taught me many lessons

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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave West View Post
Novice has started making ginger beer using this on-line recipe.

Ginger beer recipe - Channel4 - 4Food

He suggests adding a little honey. Would there be any purpose to this, other
than very slightly changing the taste?

I'm using Allison's dried baking yeast which I know is not as alcohol
tolerant as wine yeast. I understand that 100 gm of granulated sugar to one
litre of water gives about 5% of alcohol by volume roughly.

I would like to increase the alcohol content slightly, so just as a rough
guide; what would likely be the most sugar I could add per litre at the
onset of the process, without the fermentation process choking up?
Never took the Limey killograms class but for 5 gallons of water 7 lbs of sugar works well for bread yeast. For distillers yeast it can be pushed to ten pounds but its best to be added at increments. Si si?
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