Trying to fix up high acidity late in the game / other missed steps
 

I made my first batch of wine (ever) using Concord grapes grown in my
yard. I'm sure I made a bunch of mistakes. I think the main
problems are that I probably didn't measure the TA correctly at the
beginning of the process. Also, I didn't add additional sulfite at
end of primary fermentation.

It's been about 8 months, and I just pulled out some of the wine to
try to retest the TA. Based on today's test it should TA of .973.
(As best as I can tell, I'm never sure if I'm getting the reading
right, because seeing the color change seems so subjective). I also
tasted the wine. It smelled reasonable, tasted a bit acidic and a bit
bitter. The body is also a bit thin, probably because I added some
water at beginning of secondary fermentation. (Another mistake).

So I'm wondering if I can try to fix this up. I have some malolactic
culture that I got for another batch of wine I was making with Syrah
grapes from Chile. (These grapes were very low in acid -- I had to
add acid blend --so it seems they don't need the Malolactic
fermenation?)

Is it possible, and would it make any improvement to add the
malolactic culture to the Concord grapes even though it's so late in
the game? (And on the other hand, would you add malolactic culture to
wine that started out with low acidity.)

Any advice is appreciated...

Thanks.

Trying to fix up high acidity late in the game / other missedsteps
 

While it is fun to make wine out of local grapes, Concord grapes will
not make a wine much like what you find in the store. In most cases,
when working with native or cold-hardy grape varieties, you may need
to add sugar. You don't indicate what the starting SG was, or if you
added sugar. Hopefully you are OK on that front.

A TA reading of .973% (or nearly 10g / liter) is fairly high. Some
sugar should help balance the acidity. It probably won't change the
bitterness much. If the bitterness is caused by tannins, there are
things you could do to reduce that (e.g., fining with a little egg
white). If it is caused by other factors, there may not be much you
can do. There isn't a lot you can do if the wine is too thin. Next
time, try not to add much (if any) water. One thing that might help
would be to get some dried elderberries and add them to the wine for a
few weeks. They can add some interesting flavors, which may reduce
the "thin" perception. You could also look at some of the processed
yeast products like Bio-lees or "Sur Lie", as they can add a bit of
body or "mouth-feel".

I think I'd skip the malo-lactic with this batch (I don't think it
would fit well with the Concord flavor profile), just add sulfite and
potassium sorbate to prevent renewed fermentation, then sweeten a bit
to take the edge off the acidity. A small addition of sugar will not
come across as sweet, but will reduce the perceived acidity. Larger
sugar additions will produce a wine that will taste sweet. Do some
"bench trials" -- small samples (maybe a few ounces at a time) with
measured amounts of sugar, to see what effect it has on the wine. You
may find a particular level of sweetness that appeals most to you. Or
you could choose to bottle some with little or no sugar, and some with
more sugar, for different occasions or preferences.

It sounds like a little tweaking should result in a pretty pleasant
wine. Best of luck, and happy fermenting.

Doug

Trying to fix up high acidity late in the game / other missedsteps
 

On Jun 28, 1:17*pm, Douglas Hudson > wrote:
> While it is fun to make wine out of local grapes, Concord grapes will
> not make a wine much like what you find in the store. *In most cases,
> when working with native or cold-hardy grape varieties, you may need
> to add sugar. *You don't indicate what the starting SG was, or if you
> added sugar. *Hopefully you are OK on that front.
>
> A TA reading of .973% (or nearly 10g / liter) is fairly high. *Some
> sugar should help balance the acidity. *It probably won't change the
> bitterness much. *If the bitterness is caused by tannins, there are
> things you could do to reduce that (e.g., fining with a little egg
> white). *If it is caused by other factors, there may not be much you
> can do. *There isn't a lot you can do if the wine is too thin. *Next
> time, try not to add much (if any) water. *One thing that might help
> would be to get some dried elderberries and add them to the wine for a
> few weeks. *They can add some interesting flavors, which may reduce
> the "thin" perception. *You could also look at some of the processed
> yeast products like Bio-lees or "Sur Lie", as they can add a bit of
> body or "mouth-feel".
>
> I think I'd skip the malo-lactic with this batch (I don't think it
> would fit well with the Concord flavor profile), just add sulfite and
> potassium sorbate to prevent renewed fermentation, then sweeten a bit
> to take the edge off the acidity. *A small addition of sugar will not
> come across as sweet, but will reduce the perceived acidity. *Larger
> sugar additions will produce a wine that will taste sweet. *Do some
> "bench trials" -- small samples (maybe a few ounces at a time) with
> measured amounts of sugar, to see what effect it has on the wine. *You
> may find a particular level of sweetness that appeals most to you. *Or
> you could choose to bottle some with little or no sugar, and some with
> more sugar, for different occasions or preferences.
>
> It sounds like a little tweaking should result in a pretty pleasant
> wine. *Best of luck, and happy fermenting.
>
> * * * Doug

Doug, thanks for your response.
I think adding a little sugar is probably the way to go. (or I was
thinking of mixing in a little sweet concord grape juice).

The SG seemed okay - I added sugar at the beginning, got SG 1.090 and
it dropped to about .995 (if I remember the numbers correctly). If
you wouldn't mind answering a few follow up questions, I would really
appreciate it:

- in general, after secondary fermentation is done, is it customary to
add more potassium metabisulfite? (I have another batch of wine made
from Syrah grapes which I didn't add more sulfite to after secondary
was done). (I thought once the alchohol had reached about 12% you
didn't need to worry about that).

- if I want to try again to make wine from the Concord grapes, is
there anything that can be done at the beginning of the process to
bring the acidity to a lower level? I think the recipe says add
water, but wouldn't that make the wine too watery?

Thanks again for your guidance and suggestions!

Regards,
Sam

Trying to fix up high acidity late in the game / other missedsteps
 

On Jun 29, 7:44*am, Shalom Shachne > wrote:
> On Jun 28, 1:17*pm, Douglas Hudson > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > While it is fun to make wine out of local grapes, Concord grapes will
> > not make a wine much like what you find in the store. *In most cases,
> > when working with native or cold-hardy grape varieties, you may need
> > to add sugar. *You don't indicate what the starting SG was, or if you
> > added sugar. *Hopefully you are OK on that front.
>
> > A TA reading of .973% (or nearly 10g / liter) is fairly high. *Some
> > sugar should help balance the acidity. *It probably won't change the
> > bitterness much. *If the bitterness is caused by tannins, there are
> > things you could do to reduce that (e.g., fining with a little egg
> > white). *If it is caused by other factors, there may not be much you
> > can do. *There isn't a lot you can do if the wine is too thin. *Next
> > time, try not to add much (if any) water. *One thing that might help
> > would be to get some dried elderberries and add them to the wine for a
> > few weeks. *They can add some interesting flavors, which may reduce
> > the "thin" perception. *You could also look at some of the processed
> > yeast products like Bio-lees or "Sur Lie", as they can add a bit of
> > body or "mouth-feel".
>
> > I think I'd skip the malo-lactic with this batch (I don't think it
> > would fit well with the Concord flavor profile), just add sulfite and
> > potassium sorbate to prevent renewed fermentation, then sweeten a bit
> > to take the edge off the acidity. *A small addition of sugar will not
> > come across as sweet, but will reduce the perceived acidity. *Larger
> > sugar additions will produce a wine that will taste sweet. *Do some
> > "bench trials" -- small samples (maybe a few ounces at a time) with
> > measured amounts of sugar, to see what effect it has on the wine. *You
> > may find a particular level of sweetness that appeals most to you. *Or
> > you could choose to bottle some with little or no sugar, and some with
> > more sugar, for different occasions or preferences.
>
> > It sounds like a little tweaking should result in a pretty pleasant
> > wine. *Best of luck, and happy fermenting.
>
> > * * * Doug
>
> Doug, thanks for your response.
> I think adding a little sugar is probably the way to go. (or I was
> thinking of mixing in a little sweet concord grape juice).
>
> The SG seemed okay - I added sugar at the beginning, got SG 1.090 and
> it dropped to about .995 (if I remember the numbers correctly). *If
> you wouldn't mind answering a few follow up questions, I would really
> appreciate it:
>
> - in general, after secondary fermentation is done, is it customary to
> add more potassium metabisulfite? *(I have another batch of wine made
> from Syrah grapes which I didn't add more sulfite to after secondary
> was done). *(I thought once the alchohol had reached about 12% you
> didn't need to worry about that).
>
> - if I want to try again to make wine from the Concord grapes, is
> there anything that can be done at the beginning of the process to
> bring the acidity to a lower level? *I think the recipe says add
> water, but wouldn't that make the wine too watery?
>
> Thanks again for your guidance and suggestions!
>
> Regards,
> Sam

It is generally advised to add metabisulfite at every other racking
and before bottling. It helps preserve color as well as prevent
spoilage.

Unless you are in a short season area or other environmental
conditions force you to pick, let the grapes hang until they are riper
than they seem to have been for this batch. Concord should achieve a
TA of much less than .9. You really need to use a pH meter and not
worry so much about TA. pH has the most direct bearing on the
tartness of a wine. Aim for a pH of 3.4 to 3.5. You can adjust pH
chemically if necessary, but the simplest thing you can do (if you
didn't before) is cold stabilize. You will drop a lot of tartrate
crystals (containing tartaric acid) if you can maintain your wine near
32 F for three or four weeks. Rack off the crystals and the wine
should have measurably lower acidity.

If you do add sugar or juice, also stabilize with metabisulfite and
potassium sorbate to prevent any refermentation in the bottle.

Good luck,

Stephen

Trying to fix up high acidity late in the game / other missedsteps
 

On Jun 30, 12:07*am, shbailey > wrote:
> On Jun 29, 7:44*am, Shalom Shachne > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 28, 1:17*pm, Douglas Hudson > wrote:
>
> > > While it is fun to make wine out of local grapes, Concord grapes will
> > > not make a wine much like what you find in the store. *In most cases,
> > > when working with native or cold-hardy grape varieties, you may need
> > > to add sugar. *You don't indicate what the starting SG was, or if you
> > > added sugar. *Hopefully you are OK on that front.
>
> > > A TA reading of .973% (or nearly 10g / liter) is fairly high. *Some
> > > sugar should help balance the acidity. *It probably won't change the
> > > bitterness much. *If the bitterness is caused by tannins, there are
> > > things you could do to reduce that (e.g., fining with a little egg
> > > white). *If it is caused by other factors, there may not be much you
> > > can do. *There isn't a lot you can do if the wine is too thin. *Next
> > > time, try not to add much (if any) water. *One thing that might help
> > > would be to get some dried elderberries and add them to the wine for a
> > > few weeks. *They can add some interesting flavors, which may reduce
> > > the "thin" perception. *You could also look at some of the processed
> > > yeast products like Bio-lees or "Sur Lie", as they can add a bit of
> > > body or "mouth-feel".
>
> > > I think I'd skip the malo-lactic with this batch (I don't think it
> > > would fit well with the Concord flavor profile), just add sulfite and
> > > potassium sorbate to prevent renewed fermentation, then sweeten a bit
> > > to take the edge off the acidity. *A small addition of sugar will not
> > > come across as sweet, but will reduce the perceived acidity. *Larger
> > > sugar additions will produce a wine that will taste sweet. *Do some
> > > "bench trials" -- small samples (maybe a few ounces at a time) with
> > > measured amounts of sugar, to see what effect it has on the wine. *You
> > > may find a particular level of sweetness that appeals most to you. *Or
> > > you could choose to bottle some with little or no sugar, and some with
> > > more sugar, for different occasions or preferences.
>
> > > It sounds like a little tweaking should result in a pretty pleasant
> > > wine. *Best of luck, and happy fermenting.
>
> > > * * * Doug
>
> > Doug, thanks for your response.
> > I think adding a little sugar is probably the way to go. (or I was
> > thinking of mixing in a little sweet concord grape juice).
>
> > The SG seemed okay - I added sugar at the beginning, got SG 1.090 and
> > it dropped to about .995 (if I remember the numbers correctly). *If
> > you wouldn't mind answering a few follow up questions, I would really
> > appreciate it:
>
> > - in general, after secondary fermentation is done, is it customary to
> > add more potassium metabisulfite? *(I have another batch of wine made
> > from Syrah grapes which I didn't add more sulfite to after secondary
> > was done). *(I thought once the alchohol had reached about 12% you
> > didn't need to worry about that).
>
> > - if I want to try again to make wine from the Concord grapes, is
> > there anything that can be done at the beginning of the process to
> > bring the acidity to a lower level? *I think the recipe says add
> > water, but wouldn't that make the wine too watery?
>
> > Thanks again for your guidance and suggestions!
>
> > Regards,
> > Sam
>
> It is generally advised to add metabisulfite at every other racking
> and before bottling. *It helps preserve color as well as prevent
> spoilage.
>
> Unless you are in a short season area or other environmental
> conditions force you to pick, let the grapes hang until they are riper
> than they seem to have been for this batch. *Concord should achieve a
> TA of much less than .9. *You really need to use a pH meter and not
> worry so much about TA. *pH has the most direct bearing on the
> tartness of a wine. *Aim for a pH of 3.4 to 3.5. *You can adjust pH
> chemically if necessary, but the simplest thing you can do (if you
> didn't before) is cold stabilize. *You will drop a lot of tartrate
> crystals (containing tartaric acid) if you can maintain your wine near
> 32 F for three or four weeks. *Rack off the crystals and the wine
> should have measurably lower acidity.
>
> If you do add sugar or juice, also stabilize with metabisulfite and
> potassium sorbate to prevent any refermentation in the bottle.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Stephen

Thanks for the advice. I am planning to try again this fall when next
crop comes in. Hopefully, I'll fare a little better this time
around. Thanks again!

Sam