In article
>,
jim c > wrote:

> On Jan 20, 1:59*am, wrote:
> > A guide? I would say try to get the PH between 3.2 and *3.4 for a
> > fruit wine with sugar added.
> >
> > On Jan 19, 10:05*am, jim c > wrote:
> >
> > > I know that you can't ever definitively state the characteristics of
> > > wines as there are so many factors and subjective noses and palettes
> > > on the subject. *Saying all this, does anyone know of a resource which
> > > attempts to list norms, usual values or recommendations of acid levels
> > > for each country wine or classic grape wine?
> >
> > > I'm just interested in general. *My specific concern is (as per my
> > > reply to Jim's post above) for my Elderberry / Blackberry wines which
> > > are all too acidic, a guide value would be very helpful as I attempt
> > > to remedy the problem over 8 x 5 gallon batches...
> >
> > > Any help gratefully received as ever...
>
> By the way, I presume that pH of around 3.3 is workable for a red
> fruit wine with no sugar added too?
>
> Cheers, Jim

3.4 to 3.7 is my comfort zone for a dry wine table wines but taste your
way to your results. For sippin' wines, you may want the pH a little
higher (maybe to 4.0). After 4.0, wines lack fruit, and taste flat (to
my taste). Wines are like steaks. Nobody can tell you how you like it.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...ting_activists
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/19/headlines

On Feb 2, 1:48*am, Wildbilly > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> *jim c > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 20, 1:59*am, wrote:
> > > A guide? I would say try to get the PH between 3.2 and *3.4 for a
> > > fruit wine with sugar added.
>
> > > On Jan 19, 10:05*am, jim c > wrote:
>
> > > > I know that you can't ever definitively state the characteristics of
> > > > wines as there are so many factors and subjective noses and palettes
> > > > on the subject. *Saying all this, does anyone know of a resource which
> > > > attempts to list norms, usual values or recommendations of acid levels
> > > > for each country wine or classic grape wine?
>
> > > > I'm just interested in general. *My specific concern is (as per my
> > > > reply to Jim's post above) for my Elderberry / Blackberry wines which
> > > > are all too acidic, a guide value would be very helpful as I attempt
> > > > to remedy the problem over 8 x 5 gallon batches...
>
> > > > Any help gratefully received as ever...
>
> > By the way, I presume that *pH of around 3.3 is workable for a red
> > fruit wine with no sugar added too?
>
> > Cheers, Jim
>
> 3.4 to 3.7 is my comfort zone for a dry wine table wines but taste your
> way to your results. For sippin' wines, you may want the pH a little
> higher (maybe to 4.0). After 4.0, wines lack fruit, and taste flat (to
> my taste). Wines are like steaks. Nobody can tell you how you like it.
> --
> "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
> merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...1/19/headlines

No I agree - if they did I'd have to roll my eyes. I like my wines
dry, fairly tannic and hearty usually. Having guide figures is useful
before taking the plunge. I am really hoping that after tasting again
and pH testing I decide I can live with the levels - messing it around
might be more of a nuisance and let down than having it slightly sour,
but I will step into the dark shortly and see what I can see. At
least the guide figures I have now can acts as a candle and are
corroborated elsewhere online.

Jim

In article
>,
jim c > wrote:

> On Feb 2, 1:48*am, Wildbilly > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> > *jim c > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jan 20, 1:59*am, wrote:
> > > > A guide? I would say try to get the PH between 3.2 and *3.4 for a
> > > > fruit wine with sugar added.
> >
> > > > On Jan 19, 10:05*am, jim c > wrote:
> >
> > > > > I know that you can't ever definitively state the characteristics of
> > > > > wines as there are so many factors and subjective noses and palettes
> > > > > on the subject. *Saying all this, does anyone know of a resource
> > > > > which
> > > > > attempts to list norms, usual values or recommendations of acid
> > > > > levels
> > > > > for each country wine or classic grape wine?
> >
> > > > > I'm just interested in general. *My specific concern is (as per my
> > > > > reply to Jim's post above) for my Elderberry / Blackberry wines which
> > > > > are all too acidic, a guide value would be very helpful as I attempt
> > > > > to remedy the problem over 8 x 5 gallon batches...
> >
> > > > > Any help gratefully received as ever...
> >
> > > By the way, I presume that *pH of around 3.3 is workable for a red
> > > fruit wine with no sugar added too?
> >
> > > Cheers, Jim
> >
> > 3.4 to 3.7 is my comfort zone for a dry wine table wines but taste your
> > way to your results. For sippin' wines, you may want the pH a little
> > higher (maybe to 4.0). After 4.0, wines lack fruit, and taste flat (to
> > my taste). Wines are like steaks. Nobody can tell you how you like it.
> > --
> > "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
> > merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
> >
> > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...rrestin...http
> > ://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/19/headlines
>
> No I agree - if they did I'd have to roll my eyes. I like my wines
> dry, fairly tannic and hearty usually. Having guide figures is useful
> before taking the plunge. I am really hoping that after tasting again
> and pH testing I decide I can live with the levels - messing it around
> might be more of a nuisance and let down than having it slightly sour,
> but I will step into the dark shortly and see what I can see. At
> least the guide figures I have now can acts as a candle and are
> corroborated elsewhere online.
>
> Jim

Sorry to be repetitious, but remember, sourness is a function of pH, and
not directly correlated to total acidity.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...ting_activists
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/19/headlines

On Feb 2, 5:26*pm, Wildbilly > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> *jim c > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 2, 1:48*am, Wildbilly > wrote:
> > > In article
> > > >,
> > > *jim c > wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 20, 1:59*am, wrote:
> > > > > A guide? I would say try to get the PH between 3.2 and *3.4 for a
> > > > > fruit wine with sugar added.
>
> > > > > On Jan 19, 10:05*am, jim c > wrote:
>
> > > > > > I know that you can't ever definitively state the characteristics of
> > > > > > wines as there are so many factors and subjective noses and palettes
> > > > > > on the subject. *Saying all this, does anyone know of a resource
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > attempts to list norms, usual values or recommendations of acid
> > > > > > levels
> > > > > > for each country wine or classic grape wine?
>
> > > > > > I'm just interested in general. *My specific concern is (as per my
> > > > > > reply to Jim's post above) for my Elderberry / Blackberry wines which
> > > > > > are all too acidic, a guide value would be very helpful as I attempt
> > > > > > to remedy the problem over 8 x 5 gallon batches...
>
> > > > > > Any help gratefully received as ever...
>
> > > > By the way, I presume that *pH of around 3.3 is workable for a red
> > > > fruit wine with no sugar added too?
>
> > > > Cheers, Jim
>
> > > 3.4 to 3.7 is my comfort zone for a dry wine table wines but taste your
> > > way to your results. For sippin' wines, you may want the pH a little
> > > higher (maybe to 4.0). After 4.0, wines lack fruit, and taste flat (to
> > > my taste). Wines are like steaks. Nobody can tell you how you like it..
> > > --
> > > "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
> > > merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
>
> > >http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...srael_arrestin....
> > > ://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/19/headlines
>
> > No I agree - if they did I'd have to roll my eyes. *I like my wines
> > dry, fairly tannic and hearty usually. *Having guide figures is useful
> > before taking the plunge. *I am really hoping that after tasting again
> > and pH testing I decide I can live with the levels - messing it around
> > might be more of a nuisance and let down than having it slightly sour,
> > but I will step into the dark shortly and see what I can see. *At
> > least the guide figures I have now can acts as a candle and are
> > corroborated elsewhere online.
>
> > Jim
>
> Sorry to be repetitious, but remember, sourness is a function of pH, and
> not directly correlated to total acidity.
> --
> "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
> merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...1/19/headlines

Sure, cheers.

On Feb 2, 5:26*pm, Wildbilly > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> *jim c > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 2, 1:48*am, Wildbilly > wrote:
> > > In article
> > > >,
> > > *jim c > wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 20, 1:59*am, wrote:
> > > > > A guide? I would say try to get the PH between 3.2 and *3.4 for a
> > > > > fruit wine with sugar added.
>
> > > > > On Jan 19, 10:05*am, jim c > wrote:
>
> > > > > > I know that you can't ever definitively state the characteristics of
> > > > > > wines as there are so many factors and subjective noses and palettes
> > > > > > on the subject. *Saying all this, does anyone know of a resource
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > attempts to list norms, usual values or recommendations of acid
> > > > > > levels
> > > > > > for each country wine or classic grape wine?
>
> > > > > > I'm just interested in general. *My specific concern is (as per my
> > > > > > reply to Jim's post above) for my Elderberry / Blackberry wines which
> > > > > > are all too acidic, a guide value would be very helpful as I attempt
> > > > > > to remedy the problem over 8 x 5 gallon batches...
>
> > > > > > Any help gratefully received as ever...
>
> > > > By the way, I presume that *pH of around 3.3 is workable for a red
> > > > fruit wine with no sugar added too?
>
> > > > Cheers, Jim
>
> > > 3.4 to 3.7 is my comfort zone for a dry wine table wines but taste your
> > > way to your results. For sippin' wines, you may want the pH a little
> > > higher (maybe to 4.0). After 4.0, wines lack fruit, and taste flat (to
> > > my taste). Wines are like steaks. Nobody can tell you how you like it..
> > > --
> > > "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
> > > merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
>
> > >http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...srael_arrestin....
> > > ://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/19/headlines
>
> > No I agree - if they did I'd have to roll my eyes. *I like my wines
> > dry, fairly tannic and hearty usually. *Having guide figures is useful
> > before taking the plunge. *I am really hoping that after tasting again
> > and pH testing I decide I can live with the levels - messing it around
> > might be more of a nuisance and let down than having it slightly sour,
> > but I will step into the dark shortly and see what I can see. *At
> > least the guide figures I have now can acts as a candle and are
> > corroborated elsewhere online.
>
> > Jim
>
> Sorry to be repetitious, but remember, sourness is a function of pH, and
> not directly correlated to total acidity.
> --
> "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
> merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...1/19/headlines

In case anyone is interested I did pH measurements and found the wine
to be at the low end of the range pH wise ~3.3 I did trials with .1 .
2 .3g per 125ml glass as suggested above. After mixing thoroughly and
leaving 30 minutes I did taste tests and found the wine flattened by
all but the .1g test. So I added just under that proportion to the
wine.

On bottling it still tastes very young, but not overpoweringly sour.
I think in a couple of years it will be pretty good.

Jim

On Feb 27, 11:13*am, jim c > wrote:
> On Feb 2, 5:26*pm, Wildbilly > wrote:
>
>
>
> > In article
> > >,
> > *jim c > wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 2, 1:48*am, Wildbilly > wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > >,
> > > > *jim c > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jan 20, 1:59*am, wrote:
> > > > > > A guide? I would say try to get the PH between 3.2 and *3.4 for a
> > > > > > fruit wine with sugar added.
>
> > > > > > On Jan 19, 10:05*am, jim c > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > I know that you can't ever definitively state the characteristics of
> > > > > > > wines as there are so many factors and subjective noses and palettes
> > > > > > > on the subject. *Saying all this, does anyone know of a resource
> > > > > > > which
> > > > > > > attempts to list norms, usual values or recommendations of acid
> > > > > > > levels
> > > > > > > for each country wine or classic grape wine?
>
> > > > > > > I'm just interested in general. *My specific concern is (as per my
> > > > > > > reply to Jim's post above) for my Elderberry / Blackberry wines which
> > > > > > > are all too acidic, a guide value would be very helpful as I attempt
> > > > > > > to remedy the problem over 8 x 5 gallon batches...
>
> > > > > > > Any help gratefully received as ever...
>
> > > > > By the way, I presume that *pH of around 3.3 is workable for a red
> > > > > fruit wine with no sugar added too?
>
> > > > > Cheers, Jim
>
> > > > 3.4 to 3.7 is my comfort zone for a dry wine table wines but taste your
> > > > way to your results. For sippin' wines, you may want the pH a little
> > > > higher (maybe to 4.0). After 4.0, wines lack fruit, and taste flat (to
> > > > my taste). Wines are like steaks. Nobody can tell you how you like it.
> > > > --
> > > > "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
> > > > merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
>
> > > >http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...srael_arrestin...
> > > > ://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/19/headlines
>
> > > No I agree - if they did I'd have to roll my eyes. *I like my wines
> > > dry, fairly tannic and hearty usually. *Having guide figures is useful
> > > before taking the plunge. *I am really hoping that after tasting again
> > > and pH testing I decide I can live with the levels - messing it around
> > > might be more of a nuisance and let down than having it slightly sour,
> > > but I will step into the dark shortly and see what I can see. *At
> > > least the guide figures I have now can acts as a candle and are
> > > corroborated elsewhere online.
>
> > > Jim
>
> > Sorry to be repetitious, but remember, sourness is a function of pH, and
> > not directly correlated to total acidity.
> > --
> > "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
> > merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
>
> >http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...srael_arrestin...
>
> In case anyone is interested I did pH measurements and found the wine
> to be at the low end of the range pH wise ~3.3 *I did trials with .1 .
> 2 .3g per 125ml glass as suggested above. *After mixing thoroughly and
> leaving 30 minutes I did taste tests and found the wine flattened by
> all but the .1g *test. *So I added *just under that proportion to the
> wine.
>
> On bottling it still tastes very young, but not overpoweringly sour.
> I think in a couple of years it will be pretty good.
>
> Jim
By the way stephen, that is where I got my data in the first place. I
was looking to see if there were any comments specific to Elderberry.
Most of the discussion was really built around fear of adjusting by
taste, but I have done my best now, so I won't worry now, just wait a
few months or a couple of years for the wine to come good

Thanks everyone for their comments!

Jim