"Saul_Sabia" > wrote in message
om...

>
> i've heard that aluminum is bad .... but the only thing i care about
is
> whether or not it will adversely affect the _taste_ of my brew.
>
> can anyone help me out on this? thanks!
>

Lots of BS out there about aluminum. However, I don't use it for the
reason that it's too soft to clean with abrasive scrub pads, and won't
tolerate caustic cleansers. I boil water in the aluminum pot that
came with my cooker, but use SS for anything else. I know of no real
reason not to use aluminum except the one I mention.

--arne

>
>
> Saul

arne thormodsen wrote:

> "Saul_Sabia" > wrote in message
> om...
>
>
>>i've heard that aluminum is bad .... but the only thing i care about
>
> is
>
>>whether or not it will adversely affect the _taste_ of my brew.
>>
>>can anyone help me out on this? thanks!
>>
>
>
> Lots of BS out there about aluminum. However, I don't use it for the
> reason that it's too soft to clean with abrasive scrub pads, and won't
> tolerate caustic cleansers. I boil water in the aluminum pot that
> came with my cooker, but use SS for anything else. I know of no real
> reason not to use aluminum except the one I mention.
>
> --arne
>
>
>>
>>Saul
>
>
>

LOL, arne.
BS to some.. cumulative effect concern to others.
.... like drinking wine every day in ur fine, lead crystal wine glasses?

Gene

arne thormodsen wrote:

> "Saul_Sabia" > wrote in message
> om...
>
>
>>i've heard that aluminum is bad .... but the only thing i care about
>
> is
>
>>whether or not it will adversely affect the _taste_ of my brew.
>>
>>can anyone help me out on this? thanks!
>>
>
>
> Lots of BS out there about aluminum. However, I don't use it for the
> reason that it's too soft to clean with abrasive scrub pads, and won't
> tolerate caustic cleansers. I boil water in the aluminum pot that
> came with my cooker, but use SS for anything else. I know of no real
> reason not to use aluminum except the one I mention.
>
> --arne
>
>
>>
>>Saul
>
>
>

LOL, arne.
BS to some.. cumulative effect concern to others.
.... like drinking wine every day in ur fine, lead crystal wine glasses?

Gene

"gene" > wrote in message
om...

> BS to some.. cumulative effect concern to others.
> ... like drinking wine every day in ur fine, lead crystal wine
glasses?
>
> Gene
>

The reason I've always had problems with theories about aluminum
(Alzheimer's mainly) is that aluminum is so common in the environment
it's hard to believe that we don't already have a huge tolerance to
it. It's a common ingredient in dirt for goodness sakes, and I'm sure
we've all eaten a lot of that (at least as children ;-). But like I
said, I avoid it for other reasons.

--arne

arne thormodsen wrote:

> "gene" > wrote in message
> om...
>
>
>>BS to some.. cumulative effect concern to others.
>>... like drinking wine every day in ur fine, lead crystal wine
>
> glasses?
>
>>Gene
>>
>
>
> The reason I've always had problems with theories about aluminum
> (Alzheimer's mainly) is that aluminum is so common in the environment
> it's hard to believe that we don't already have a huge tolerance to
> it. It's a common ingredient in dirt for goodness sakes, and I'm sure
> we've all eaten a lot of that (at least as children ;-). But like I
> said, I avoid it for other reasons.
>
> --arne
>
>
I suppose our discussion may be OFF TOPIC for this usenet group. Would
it be better for us to talk off-line?
Or is this a subject of general interest to our winemaking community?

Regards,
Gene

"arne thormodsen" > wrote in message >...
> "Saul_Sabia" > wrote in message
> om...
>
> >
> > i've heard that aluminum is bad .... but the only thing i care about
> is
> > whether or not it will adversely affect the _taste_ of my brew.
> >
> > can anyone help me out on this? thanks!
> >
>
> Lots of BS out there about aluminum. However, I don't use it for the
> reason that it's too soft to clean with abrasive scrub pads, and won't
> tolerate caustic cleansers. I boil water in the aluminum pot that
> came with my cooker, but use SS for anything else. I know of no real
> reason not to use aluminum except the one I mention.


well, that's a start. boiling water is okay. now how about WINE?
i need some personal experience here people! dangit, i'm short on
cash and this is a deal that would really kick ass if ... if it
won't screw my wine!



Saul

>
> > BS to some.. cumulative effect concern to others.
> > ... like drinking wine every day in ur fine, lead crystal wine
> glasses?
> >
> > Gene
> >
>
> The reason I've always had problems with theories about aluminum
> (Alzheimer's mainly) is that aluminum is so common in the environment
> it's hard to believe that we don't already have a huge tolerance to
> it. It's a common ingredient in dirt for goodness sakes, and I'm sure
> we've all eaten a lot of that (at least as children ;-). But like I
> said, I avoid it for other reasons.
>
> --arne

That is priceless logic, Arne. To begin with, we have yet to develop
any tolerance for many "common ingredients" in dirt. For instance,
I'd like to see how well wine would hold up in a tank made of lead,
which is common in a lot of dirt.

Second, aluminum is an alloy, created by man this past century, so it
is not just a common ingredient in dirt.... yet.


The main point is, there are some metals that should be kept away from
wine (and beer) production. Aluminum is one on the list. I'd
recommend to the op that he stick with glass or stainless steel for
"cooking" his wine or beer.

clyde

In article >,
says...
>
> Second, aluminum is an alloy, created by man this past century, so it
> is not just a common ingredient in dirt.... yet.


Can we all pitch in a buck or two and buy this man a chemistry
textbook?

Kevin

In article >,
says...
>
> Second, aluminum is an alloy, created by man this past century, so it
> is not just a common ingredient in dirt.... yet.


Can we all pitch in a buck or two and buy this man a chemistry
textbook?

Kevin

"Saul_Sabia" > wrote in message

> well, that's a start. boiling water is okay. now how about WINE?
> i need some personal experience here people! dangit, i'm short on
> cash and this is a deal that would really kick ass if ... if it
> won't screw my wine!

How long are you going to have the wine in the pot? The biggest problem is
acid. Most liquids are OK in aluminum but acidic foods can cause reaction.
For a few minutes it is probably OK, but I have no idea just how long you
could safely expose it. Long cooked things like tomato sauce would take on a
metallic taste. OTOH, a pot roast for 6 hours is OK, but there is not the
acid.

"Clyde Gill" > wrote in message
om...
>>
>
> The main point is, there are some metals that should be kept away from
> wine (and beer) production. Aluminum is one on the list. I'd
> recommend to the op that he stick with glass or stainless steel for
> "cooking" his wine or beer.
>
The main point is, you have no credible scientific evidence to back that up.
Give us some references to support your position.

And BTW, it's an element. It must be processed to retrieve it from its
natural state, but it is still an element. If you don't know that, why
should we believe you have any expertise on its medical effects?

Brian

> >
> > The main point is, there are some metals that should be kept away from
> > wine (and beer) production. Aluminum is one on the list. I'd
> > recommend to the op that he stick with glass or stainless steel for
> > "cooking" his wine or beer.
> >
> The main point is, you have no credible scientific evidence to back that up.
> Give us some references to support your position.
>
> And BTW, it's an element. It must be processed to retrieve it from its
> natural state, but it is still an element.

You're quite right on that one Brian. The atomic symbol 'Al' kept
looming in the sidelines of my brain while I wrote that yesterday, but
for whatever reason it didn't surface.

Guess I shouldn't be online during harvest.

The comment from Arne: "it is so common in the environment it's hard
to believe that we don't already have a huge tolerance to it" struck
me wrong. I'll continue to criticize such logic, even if my arguments
are lame.

I still wouldn't use it for winemaking, but I still don't have any
references for you.


I'll go back to the cellar now.

clyde

"Clyde Gill" > wrote in message
om...
> > >
> > > The main point is, there are some metals that should be kept away from
> > > wine (and beer) production. Aluminum is one on the list. I'd
> > > recommend to the op that he stick with glass or stainless steel for
> > > "cooking" his wine or beer.
> > >
> > The main point is, you have no credible scientific evidence to back that
up.
> > Give us some references to support your position.
> >
> > And BTW, it's an element. It must be processed to retrieve it from its
> > natural state, but it is still an element.
>
> You're quite right on that one Brian. The atomic symbol 'Al' kept
> looming in the sidelines of my brain while I wrote that yesterday, but
> for whatever reason it didn't surface.
>
> Guess I shouldn't be online during harvest.
>
> The comment from Arne: "it is so common in the environment it's hard
> to believe that we don't already have a huge tolerance to it" struck
> me wrong. I'll continue to criticize such logic, even if my arguments
> are lame.
>
> I still wouldn't use it for winemaking, but I still don't have any
> references for you.
>
>
> I'll go back to the cellar now.
>
> clyde

Aluminum appears to be an inappropriate metal for wine use. Here are a
couple of references.

"Aluminum hazes may develop......when wine is exposed to aluminum
equipment." Yair Margalit, "Concepts in Wine Chemistry," page 320.

"...........at (aluminum) levels exceeding 5 mg/L, hazes, and undesirable
changes in color, flavor and aroma may result." Zoecklein, et al, "Wine
Analysis and Production," page 204.

"Copper and iron are the two most important metals causing haziness and
deposits in wine and aluminum and calcium may occasionally be
involved......." Bryce Rankine, "Making Good Wine," page 307.

"Aluminum should never be used for storage of wine." C.S. Ough, "Winemaking
Basics," page 180.

Regards,
Lum
Del Mar, California, USA

"Lum" > wrote in message
...
>

>
> Aluminum appears to be an inappropriate metal for wine use. Here are a
> couple of references.
>
These all sound like valid reasons to not use aluminium in winemaking. My
objections were based on dredging up the unproven Alzheimer link, and also
because beer brewing was included in the "do not use for" list. Many
amateurs (myself included) use aluminum pots for their brewing, mine is for
my mash tun. Our beers turn out just fine.

Brian

Kevin Vang wrote:
>
> In article >,
> says...
> >
> > Second, aluminum is an alloy, created by man this past century, so it
> > is not just a common ingredient in dirt.... yet.
>
> Can we all pitch in a buck or two and buy this man a chemistry
> textbook?
>
> Kevin

Why spend money?
http://www.webelements.com/webelemen...xt/Al/key.html

--
__________________________________________________ _________________

http://www.khaaan.com/

Why do you want to cook wine?
Aluminum or not.
Eddie V.
Brampton ON.
"Saul_Sabia" > wrote in message
om...
> okay, so i'm walking through my local home depot and i find an outdoor
> gas setup for frying turkeys... 30 quart pot, gas burner, other stuff for
> cooking turkeys ... for 50 bucks ... and i thought ... damn, that's a lot
> of wine! then i read the contents and realized that it was an aluminum
> cookpot. figures... the cheapest crockpot even close to that size that i
> could find in steel was around 50 bucks or so right there.
>
> my question is as follows : has anyone actually tried cooking your wine
> or beer in aluminum? just the mashing process, or just the boil, y'know?
>
> i've heard that aluminum is bad .... but the only thing i care about is
> whether or not it will adversely affect the _taste_ of my brew.
>
> can anyone help me out on this? thanks!
>
>
>
> Saul

> i've heard that aluminum is bad .... but the only thing i care about is
> whether or not it will adversely affect the _taste_ of my brew.
>
Good. Then it won't matter anymore when you're dement by accumulation
of Al. The Romans had a bit of a similar experience with lead vessels
(but went for the taste instead and left it in there for a long
time...)

Anyway, all the reasons are being told: the alu will dissolve in acids
(which wine is pretty much), the more so with high temps. I would
absolutely tell you off for storage!!!, but for a simple (quick) boil
I doubt it will do you harm. Of course alu is ubiquitos, but eating
dirt will not dissolve alu in there as it is in a completely different
form than the pure metal.

My own personal exp: Cooking zuurkool (dutch) = Sauerkraut (german),
cabbage preserved by acid, my mother's cooking pot suddenly started
leaking. Now, it was an old and thin cooking pot, but nonetheless this
clearly was the last drop.

Rene.

> i've heard that aluminum is bad .... but the only thing i care about is
> whether or not it will adversely affect the _taste_ of my brew.
>
Good. Then it won't matter anymore when you're dement by accumulation
of Al. The Romans had a bit of a similar experience with lead vessels
(but went for the taste instead and left it in there for a long
time...)

Anyway, all the reasons are being told: the alu will dissolve in acids
(which wine is pretty much), the more so with high temps. I would
absolutely tell you off for storage!!!, but for a simple (quick) boil
I doubt it will do you harm. Of course alu is ubiquitos, but eating
dirt will not dissolve alu in there as it is in a completely different
form than the pure metal.

My own personal exp: Cooking zuurkool (dutch) = Sauerkraut (german),
cabbage preserved by acid, my mother's cooking pot suddenly started
leaking. Now, it was an old and thin cooking pot, but nonetheless this
clearly was the last drop.

Rene.

"Rene" > wrote in message
m...

> Of course alu is ubiquitos, but eating
> dirt will not dissolve alu in there as it is in a completely
different
> form than the pure metal.
>

Are you proposing that ingesting metallic aluminum can lead to it's
absorbtion without conversion to the same soluble compounds that
aluminum in dirt would have to be converted to? Kindly explain this
point in detail, as my 9 years of chemical education in college and
graduate school didn't include this particular novelty.

BTW, were you aware that aluminum compounds are also an ingredient in
many baked goods? Read the label sometime. Maybe you'd better avoid
more things than you thought of before...

--arne

> Are you proposing that ingesting metallic aluminum can lead to it's
> absorbtion without conversion to the same soluble compounds that
> aluminum in dirt would have to be converted to? Kindly explain this
> point in detail, as my 9 years of chemical education in college and
> graduate school didn't include this particular novelty.

I am saying that alu can 'dissolve' in acids (like wine) which
involves breaking up in ions. Alu as salts in dirt do not necessarily
have to go in solution, otherwise rain water would have done that
already. Your 9 years in college were ott imho if you didn't get that
point.


> BTW, were you aware that aluminum compounds are also an ingredient in
> many baked goods? Read the label sometime. Maybe you'd better avoid
> more things than you thought of before...

No, didn't know, don't want to know everything horrible that our
market economy throws up. Anyway, my point was that alu pots slowly
dissolve in dilute acids, and I do not think any winemaker would want
that happening.

> --arne

"Rene" > wrote in message
om...

> I am saying that alu can 'dissolve' in acids (like wine)

Or much stronger acid as is in your digestive system? The one that I
was discussing putting dirt through before? Really, I think you have
a pretty hard case to prove here. Anyway, I'm tiring of the subject.

--arne

> > I am saying that alu can 'dissolve' in acids (like wine)
>
> Or much stronger acid as is in your digestive system? The one that I
> was discussing putting dirt through before?

Time is the factor.

Really, I think you have
> a pretty hard case to prove here. Anyway, I'm tiring of the subject.
>
> --arne