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Winemaking (rec.crafts.winemaking) Discussion of the process, recipes, tips, techniques and general exchange of lore on the process, methods and history of wine making. Includes traditional grape wines, sparkling wines & champagnes. |
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Pinot Noir
I am placing an order for Pinot Noir grapes and have a few questions. This
is my first time making wine from fresh grapes. I have made wine from other fruits and kits before. How many pounds will it take to make 6 galons? Do I use all juice or do I add water? What should the acid levels be before fermentation? How long should I leave the skins in the fermentor? Anything else I need to know? |
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"Mike" > wrote in message ... > I am placing an order for Pinot Noir grapes and have a few questions. This > is my first time making wine from fresh grapes. I have made wine from other > fruits and kits before. > > How many pounds will it take to make 6 galons? Figure about 80 pounds. I'd round it up to 100 pounds. > Do I use all juice or do I add water? _Never_ add water to grapes! One exception: when preparing fining materials, they need to be mixed with water. There's no avoiding that. > What should the acid levels be before fermentation? Get the pH below 3.5. 3.2 to 3.5 is the normal range. Personally, I'd like ~3.3 to 3.4. > How long should I leave the skins in the fermentor? At _least_ until dryness. Certainly until you press. > Anything else I need to know? You have no idea! You'll find out though. ;^) Do some reading. Ask more questions. Tom S |
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"Mike" > wrote in message ... > I am placing an order for Pinot Noir grapes and have a few questions. This > is my first time making wine from fresh grapes. I have made wine from other > fruits and kits before. > > How many pounds will it take to make 6 galons? Figure about 80 pounds. I'd round it up to 100 pounds. > Do I use all juice or do I add water? _Never_ add water to grapes! One exception: when preparing fining materials, they need to be mixed with water. There's no avoiding that. > What should the acid levels be before fermentation? Get the pH below 3.5. 3.2 to 3.5 is the normal range. Personally, I'd like ~3.3 to 3.4. > How long should I leave the skins in the fermentor? At _least_ until dryness. Certainly until you press. > Anything else I need to know? You have no idea! You'll find out though. ;^) Do some reading. Ask more questions. Tom S |
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"Mike" > asked:
> How many pounds will it take to make 6 galons? Upwards of around 70 lbs, depending on yield. > Do I use all juice or do I add water? No water. > What should the acid levels be before fermentation? pH 3.2-3.6, TA 7-10 g/l (as tartaric). > How long should I leave the skins in the fermentor? Until dryness is reached (or at least until Brix < 5). > Anything else I need to know? Check out: http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/Pinot.htm for plenty more info. For a start, you might consider destemming, cold soaking, and saignée options. HTH, Ben |
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"Mike" > asked:
> How many pounds will it take to make 6 galons? Upwards of around 70 lbs, depending on yield. > Do I use all juice or do I add water? No water. > What should the acid levels be before fermentation? pH 3.2-3.6, TA 7-10 g/l (as tartaric). > How long should I leave the skins in the fermentor? Until dryness is reached (or at least until Brix < 5). > Anything else I need to know? Check out: http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/Pinot.htm for plenty more info. For a start, you might consider destemming, cold soaking, and saignée options. HTH, Ben |
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Thank You Ben! I will use that article in my third attempt at a good pinot
noir. The first year it was watery and vegetative and the darn vines got some canes 15 feet long before I got around to hedging them. Year two I cropped the heck out of it, and didn't fertilize, in hopes of diminishing the ridiculous vigor. The wine was watery and tasteless. This year the vigor was slightly better and I didn't fertilize, and I kept the crop down to maybe 2 ton/ac level (I have only about 65 pinot noir plants so i'm guessing)but it was a damper ,cooler summer and theres a little powdery mildew on about 20% of the clusters. Oy Vey! Would you use the clusters which just have a few berries with mildew on them? Those berries don't seem to ripen and may drop off as we approach harvest. "Ben Rotter" > wrote in message om... > "Mike" > asked: > > > How many pounds will it take to make 6 galons? > > Upwards of around 70 lbs, depending on yield. > > > Do I use all juice or do I add water? > > No water. > > > What should the acid levels be before fermentation? > > pH 3.2-3.6, TA 7-10 g/l (as tartaric). > > > How long should I leave the skins in the fermentor? > > Until dryness is reached (or at least until Brix < 5). > > > Anything else I need to know? > > Check out: > > http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/Pinot.htm > > for plenty more info. > For a start, you might consider destemming, cold soaking, and saignée options. > > HTH, > Ben |
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Thank You Ben! I will use that article in my third attempt at a good pinot
noir. The first year it was watery and vegetative and the darn vines got some canes 15 feet long before I got around to hedging them. Year two I cropped the heck out of it, and didn't fertilize, in hopes of diminishing the ridiculous vigor. The wine was watery and tasteless. This year the vigor was slightly better and I didn't fertilize, and I kept the crop down to maybe 2 ton/ac level (I have only about 65 pinot noir plants so i'm guessing)but it was a damper ,cooler summer and theres a little powdery mildew on about 20% of the clusters. Oy Vey! Would you use the clusters which just have a few berries with mildew on them? Those berries don't seem to ripen and may drop off as we approach harvest. "Ben Rotter" > wrote in message om... > "Mike" > asked: > > > How many pounds will it take to make 6 galons? > > Upwards of around 70 lbs, depending on yield. > > > Do I use all juice or do I add water? > > No water. > > > What should the acid levels be before fermentation? > > pH 3.2-3.6, TA 7-10 g/l (as tartaric). > > > How long should I leave the skins in the fermentor? > > Until dryness is reached (or at least until Brix < 5). > > > Anything else I need to know? > > Check out: > > http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/Pinot.htm > > for plenty more info. > For a start, you might consider destemming, cold soaking, and saignée options. > > HTH, > Ben |
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Thanks, great info. Just a couple guestions.
You said this about yeast. "Popular cultured yeasts for Pinot include Assmanshausen and RC212 Bourgovin. Some winemakers use D254, 71B (Narbonne) for enhanced fruitiness, or Rhône strains such as L-2056. " What would you guys use for a yeast? You also recommend a MLF. When and how would you do it? When, what and how much Oak would you use for a 6 gallon batch? I am considering getting pure juice instead of the grapes. If I do that and not ferment with the skins, what will I miss? "Ben Rotter" > wrote in message om... > "Mike" > asked: > > > How many pounds will it take to make 6 galons? > > Upwards of around 70 lbs, depending on yield. > > > Do I use all juice or do I add water? > > No water. > > > What should the acid levels be before fermentation? > > pH 3.2-3.6, TA 7-10 g/l (as tartaric). > > > How long should I leave the skins in the fermentor? > > Until dryness is reached (or at least until Brix < 5). > > > Anything else I need to know? > > Check out: > > http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/Pinot.htm > > for plenty more info. > For a start, you might consider destemming, cold soaking, and saignée options. > > HTH, > Ben |
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Thanks, great info. Just a couple guestions.
You said this about yeast. "Popular cultured yeasts for Pinot include Assmanshausen and RC212 Bourgovin. Some winemakers use D254, 71B (Narbonne) for enhanced fruitiness, or Rhône strains such as L-2056. " What would you guys use for a yeast? You also recommend a MLF. When and how would you do it? When, what and how much Oak would you use for a 6 gallon batch? I am considering getting pure juice instead of the grapes. If I do that and not ferment with the skins, what will I miss? "Ben Rotter" > wrote in message om... > "Mike" > asked: > > > How many pounds will it take to make 6 galons? > > Upwards of around 70 lbs, depending on yield. > > > Do I use all juice or do I add water? > > No water. > > > What should the acid levels be before fermentation? > > pH 3.2-3.6, TA 7-10 g/l (as tartaric). > > > How long should I leave the skins in the fermentor? > > Until dryness is reached (or at least until Brix < 5). > > > Anything else I need to know? > > Check out: > > http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/Pinot.htm > > for plenty more info. > For a start, you might consider destemming, cold soaking, and saignée options. > > HTH, > Ben |
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Mike,
A lot of these questions really come down to personal preference, so I'll try and present more than one perspective: > "Popular cultured yeasts for Pinot include Assmanshausen and RC212 > Bourgovin. Some winemakers use D254, 71B (Narbonne) for enhanced fruitiness, > or Rhône strains such as L-2056. " > What would you guys use for a yeast? All these strains are popular, particularly RC212 and D254 in California and Oregon. But really the possibilities are endless. > You also recommend a MLF. When and how would you do it? Some would go after a few days into fermentation (taking advantage of the low alcohol and higher nutrient and temperature levels, and allowing for more security in being able to dose with SO2 sooner), and others would go for MLF after the AF (avoiding potential sugar metabolism by MLB, potentially avoiding higher VA production, and possible yeast-MLB competition). In any case, the issues of SO2 use and yeast-MLB compatability should be kept in mind. (See http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/MLF.htm for more.) > When, what and how much Oak would you use for a 6 gallon batch? If you are talking about chips for a US gallon, then ~2.5 oz (68 g, 3 g/l) would be the low end and 5-6.5 oz (136-182 g, 6-8 g/l) would be considered the high end. If you add it *during* fermentation you will get a softer oak character and better oak integration in the wine. I'd use *French* oak (this is used more universally for Pinot, though other oaks are used) and whilst toast level is fairly open I'd go for light-medium. > I am considering getting pure juice instead of the grapes. If I do that and > not ferment with the skins, what will I miss? Most likely that juice was heated to extract colour and tannins. The character will be quite different to a wine that had aqueous/alcoholic extraction. Some winemakers even claim such wines can possess a "cooked" character, but that's debatable. The main things is that you will miss being able to control the level of extraction - whatever colour and tannin is there is what you get, and that might not be what you want. HTH, Ben Improved Winemaking http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/ |
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