Winemaking (rec.crafts.winemaking) Discussion of the process, recipes, tips, techniques and general exchange of lore on the process, methods and history of wine making. Includes traditional grape wines, sparkling wines & champagnes.

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Old 08-09-2004, 01:09 AM
Mike
 
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Default Pinot Noir

I am placing an order for Pinot Noir grapes and have a few questions. This
is my first time making wine from fresh grapes. I have made wine from other
fruits and kits before.

How many pounds will it take to make 6 galons?
Do I use all juice or do I add water?
What should the acid levels be before fermentation?
How long should I leave the skins in the fermentor?
Anything else I need to know?



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Old 08-09-2004, 04:22 AM
Tom S
 
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Default


"Mike" wrote in message
...
I am placing an order for Pinot Noir grapes and have a few questions.

This
is my first time making wine from fresh grapes. I have made wine from

other
fruits and kits before.

How many pounds will it take to make 6 galons?


Figure about 80 pounds. I'd round it up to 100 pounds.

Do I use all juice or do I add water?


_Never_ add water to grapes!
One exception: when preparing fining materials, they need to be mixed with
water. There's no avoiding that.

What should the acid levels be before fermentation?


Get the pH below 3.5.
3.2 to 3.5 is the normal range. Personally, I'd like ~3.3 to 3.4.

How long should I leave the skins in the fermentor?


At _least_ until dryness. Certainly until you press.

Anything else I need to know?


You have no idea! You'll find out though. ;^)
Do some reading. Ask more questions.

Tom S


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Old 08-09-2004, 04:22 AM
Tom S
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Mike" wrote in message
...
I am placing an order for Pinot Noir grapes and have a few questions.

This
is my first time making wine from fresh grapes. I have made wine from

other
fruits and kits before.

How many pounds will it take to make 6 galons?


Figure about 80 pounds. I'd round it up to 100 pounds.

Do I use all juice or do I add water?


_Never_ add water to grapes!
One exception: when preparing fining materials, they need to be mixed with
water. There's no avoiding that.

What should the acid levels be before fermentation?


Get the pH below 3.5.
3.2 to 3.5 is the normal range. Personally, I'd like ~3.3 to 3.4.

How long should I leave the skins in the fermentor?


At _least_ until dryness. Certainly until you press.

Anything else I need to know?


You have no idea! You'll find out though. ;^)
Do some reading. Ask more questions.

Tom S


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Old 08-09-2004, 02:15 PM
Ben Rotter
 
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Default

"Mike" asked:

How many pounds will it take to make 6 galons?


Upwards of around 70 lbs, depending on yield.

Do I use all juice or do I add water?


No water.

What should the acid levels be before fermentation?


pH 3.2-3.6, TA 7-10 g/l (as tartaric).

How long should I leave the skins in the fermentor?


Until dryness is reached (or at least until Brix 5).

Anything else I need to know?


Check out:

http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/Pinot.htm

for plenty more info.
For a start, you might consider destemming, cold soaking, and saignée options.

HTH,
Ben
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Old 08-09-2004, 02:15 PM
Ben Rotter
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Mike" asked:

How many pounds will it take to make 6 galons?


Upwards of around 70 lbs, depending on yield.

Do I use all juice or do I add water?


No water.

What should the acid levels be before fermentation?


pH 3.2-3.6, TA 7-10 g/l (as tartaric).

How long should I leave the skins in the fermentor?


Until dryness is reached (or at least until Brix 5).

Anything else I need to know?


Check out:

http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/Pinot.htm

for plenty more info.
For a start, you might consider destemming, cold soaking, and saignée options.

HTH,
Ben


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Old 08-09-2004, 09:09 PM
Darwin Vander Stelt
 
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Default

Thank You Ben! I will use that article in my third attempt at a good pinot
noir. The first year it was watery and vegetative and the darn vines got
some canes 15 feet long before I got around to hedging them. Year two I
cropped the heck out of it, and didn't fertilize, in hopes of diminishing
the ridiculous vigor. The wine was watery and tasteless. This year the vigor
was slightly better and I didn't fertilize, and I kept the crop down to
maybe 2 ton/ac level (I have only about 65 pinot noir plants so i'm
guessing)but it was a damper ,cooler summer and theres a little powdery
mildew on about 20% of the clusters. Oy Vey!
Would you use the clusters which just have a few berries with mildew on
them? Those berries don't seem to ripen and may drop off as we approach
harvest.
"Ben Rotter" wrote in message
om...
"Mike" asked:

How many pounds will it take to make 6 galons?


Upwards of around 70 lbs, depending on yield.

Do I use all juice or do I add water?


No water.

What should the acid levels be before fermentation?


pH 3.2-3.6, TA 7-10 g/l (as tartaric).

How long should I leave the skins in the fermentor?


Until dryness is reached (or at least until Brix 5).

Anything else I need to know?


Check out:

http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/Pinot.htm

for plenty more info.
For a start, you might consider destemming, cold soaking, and saignée

options.

HTH,
Ben



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Old 08-09-2004, 09:09 PM
Darwin Vander Stelt
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thank You Ben! I will use that article in my third attempt at a good pinot
noir. The first year it was watery and vegetative and the darn vines got
some canes 15 feet long before I got around to hedging them. Year two I
cropped the heck out of it, and didn't fertilize, in hopes of diminishing
the ridiculous vigor. The wine was watery and tasteless. This year the vigor
was slightly better and I didn't fertilize, and I kept the crop down to
maybe 2 ton/ac level (I have only about 65 pinot noir plants so i'm
guessing)but it was a damper ,cooler summer and theres a little powdery
mildew on about 20% of the clusters. Oy Vey!
Would you use the clusters which just have a few berries with mildew on
them? Those berries don't seem to ripen and may drop off as we approach
harvest.
"Ben Rotter" wrote in message
om...
"Mike" asked:

How many pounds will it take to make 6 galons?


Upwards of around 70 lbs, depending on yield.

Do I use all juice or do I add water?


No water.

What should the acid levels be before fermentation?


pH 3.2-3.6, TA 7-10 g/l (as tartaric).

How long should I leave the skins in the fermentor?


Until dryness is reached (or at least until Brix 5).

Anything else I need to know?


Check out:

http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/Pinot.htm

for plenty more info.
For a start, you might consider destemming, cold soaking, and saignée

options.

HTH,
Ben



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Old 10-09-2004, 04:13 PM
Mike
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks, great info. Just a couple guestions.

You said this about yeast.

"Popular cultured yeasts for Pinot include Assmanshausen and RC212
Bourgovin. Some winemakers use D254, 71B (Narbonne) for enhanced fruitiness,
or Rhône strains such as L-2056. "

What would you guys use for a yeast?

You also recommend a MLF. When and how would you do it?

When, what and how much Oak would you use for a 6 gallon batch?

I am considering getting pure juice instead of the grapes. If I do that and
not ferment with the skins, what will I miss?




"Ben Rotter" wrote in message
om...
"Mike" asked:

How many pounds will it take to make 6 galons?


Upwards of around 70 lbs, depending on yield.

Do I use all juice or do I add water?


No water.

What should the acid levels be before fermentation?


pH 3.2-3.6, TA 7-10 g/l (as tartaric).

How long should I leave the skins in the fermentor?


Until dryness is reached (or at least until Brix 5).

Anything else I need to know?


Check out:

http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/Pinot.htm

for plenty more info.
For a start, you might consider destemming, cold soaking, and saignée

options.

HTH,
Ben



  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 10-09-2004, 04:13 PM
Mike
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks, great info. Just a couple guestions.

You said this about yeast.

"Popular cultured yeasts for Pinot include Assmanshausen and RC212
Bourgovin. Some winemakers use D254, 71B (Narbonne) for enhanced fruitiness,
or Rhône strains such as L-2056. "

What would you guys use for a yeast?

You also recommend a MLF. When and how would you do it?

When, what and how much Oak would you use for a 6 gallon batch?

I am considering getting pure juice instead of the grapes. If I do that and
not ferment with the skins, what will I miss?




"Ben Rotter" wrote in message
om...
"Mike" asked:

How many pounds will it take to make 6 galons?


Upwards of around 70 lbs, depending on yield.

Do I use all juice or do I add water?


No water.

What should the acid levels be before fermentation?


pH 3.2-3.6, TA 7-10 g/l (as tartaric).

How long should I leave the skins in the fermentor?


Until dryness is reached (or at least until Brix 5).

Anything else I need to know?


Check out:

http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/Pinot.htm

for plenty more info.
For a start, you might consider destemming, cold soaking, and saignée

options.

HTH,
Ben



  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-09-2004, 12:45 AM
Ben Rotter
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mike,

A lot of these questions really come down to personal preference, so
I'll try and present more than one perspective:

"Popular cultured yeasts for Pinot include Assmanshausen and RC212
Bourgovin. Some winemakers use D254, 71B (Narbonne) for enhanced fruitiness,
or Rhône strains such as L-2056. "


What would you guys use for a yeast?


All these strains are popular, particularly RC212 and D254 in
California and Oregon. But really the possibilities are endless.

You also recommend a MLF. When and how would you do it?


Some would go after a few days into fermentation (taking advantage of
the low alcohol and higher nutrient and temperature levels, and
allowing for more security in being able to dose with SO2 sooner), and
others would go for MLF after the AF (avoiding potential sugar
metabolism by MLB, potentially avoiding higher VA production, and
possible yeast-MLB competition). In any case, the issues of SO2 use
and yeast-MLB compatability should be kept in mind. (See
http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/MLF.htm for more.)

When, what and how much Oak would you use for a 6 gallon batch?


If you are talking about chips for a US gallon, then ~2.5 oz (68 g, 3
g/l) would be the low end and 5-6.5 oz (136-182 g, 6-8 g/l) would be
considered the high end. If you add it *during* fermentation you will
get a softer oak character and better oak integration in the wine. I'd
use *French* oak (this is used more universally for Pinot, though
other oaks are used) and whilst toast level is fairly open I'd go for
light-medium.

I am considering getting pure juice instead of the grapes. If I do that and
not ferment with the skins, what will I miss?


Most likely that juice was heated to extract colour and tannins. The
character will be quite different to a wine that had aqueous/alcoholic
extraction. Some winemakers even claim such wines can possess a
"cooked" character, but that's debatable. The main things is that you
will miss being able to control the level of extraction - whatever
colour and tannin is there is what you get, and that might not be what
you want.

HTH,
Ben

Improved Winemaking
http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/


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