Hi all,

For those who lees stir, I was wondering what your preferred yeast
strains were for this purpose?

(I did post on a similar topic some time ago but I think it was too
specific (dealing with aroma/flavour contributions) to receive much
feedback from the group. So I pose this question generality, though if
you have info to share on contributions made by individual strains
when lees stirring I'd love to hear about them!)

Ben

"Ben Rotter" > wrote in message
om...
> Hi all,
>
> For those who lees stir, I was wondering what your preferred yeast
> strains were for this purpose?

I like strains that don't have a tendency to form H2S. Of course _all_
strains form at least _some_ H2S, but some are much worse than others in
this regard.

I've been using Lallemand CY3079 for the past few years with no problems. I
used Epernay II (Côte de Blancs) prior to that - also with no problem.

Tom S

Tom,

Thanks for the reply. Would you care to comment on how each yeast
contributes differently (or have you not noticed a difference) to the
wine due to lees stirring?

Epernay II is EC1118 right? If so, I'd imagine it as a potentially
good candidate given it's Champagne genetics (I've currently got a
batch fermenting under it which I intend to lees stir with).

Have you ever used K1-V1116 for lees stirring?

Ben

> I like strains that don't have a tendency to form H2S. Of course _all_
> strains form at least _some_ H2S, but some are much worse than others in
> this regard.
>
> I've been using Lallemand CY3079 for the past few years with no problems. I
> used Epernay II (Côte de Blancs) prior to that - also with no problem.
>
> Tom S

"Ben Rotter" > wrote in message
om...
> Epernay II is EC1118 right?

Wrong! EC1118 is Prise de Mousse, which is a very vigorous Bayanus strain.

Epernay II is also known as Côte de Blancs. It is a very slow, steady,
low-foaming strain that has a wonderful fragrance. I would use nothing else
for white wines - except that it tends to stick off-dry. It seems to have
low alcohol tolerance. That makes it a great strain for sweet wines, but a
PIA for dry wines.

> Have you ever used K1-V1116 for lees stirring?

No, I can't say I have. I'm experimenting with a couple of new strains this
year: D254 and VL2. I'll probably do the bulk of my Chardonnay with
CY3079, but these others sounded interesting.

I'm also experimenting with a new Hungarian barrel (François Freres, Medium+
toast) this year. French oak has gotten so ridiculously expen$ive that I'm
pursuing alternatives. Ask me in 6 months what I think of Hungarian oak.

Tom S

"Ben Rotter" > wrote in message
om...
> Epernay II is EC1118 right?

Wrong! EC1118 is Prise de Mousse, which is a very vigorous Bayanus strain.

Epernay II is also known as Côte de Blancs. It is a very slow, steady,
low-foaming strain that has a wonderful fragrance. I would use nothing else
for white wines - except that it tends to stick off-dry. It seems to have
low alcohol tolerance. That makes it a great strain for sweet wines, but a
PIA for dry wines.

> Have you ever used K1-V1116 for lees stirring?

No, I can't say I have. I'm experimenting with a couple of new strains this
year: D254 and VL2. I'll probably do the bulk of my Chardonnay with
CY3079, but these others sounded interesting.

I'm also experimenting with a new Hungarian barrel (François Freres, Medium+
toast) this year. French oak has gotten so ridiculously expen$ive that I'm
pursuing alternatives. Ask me in 6 months what I think of Hungarian oak.

Tom S

"Ben Rotter" > wrote in message
om...
> Epernay II is EC1118 right?

Wrong! EC1118 is Prise de Mousse, which is a very vigorous Bayanus strain.

Epernay II is also known as Côte de Blancs. It is a very slow, steady,
low-foaming strain that has a wonderful fragrance. I would use nothing else
for white wines - except that it tends to stick off-dry. It seems to have
low alcohol tolerance. That makes it a great strain for sweet wines, but a
PIA for dry wines.

> Have you ever used K1-V1116 for lees stirring?

No, I can't say I have. I'm experimenting with a couple of new strains this
year: D254 and VL2. I'll probably do the bulk of my Chardonnay with
CY3079, but these others sounded interesting.

I'm also experimenting with a new Hungarian barrel (François Freres, Medium+
toast) this year. French oak has gotten so ridiculously expen$ive that I'm
pursuing alternatives. Ask me in 6 months what I think of Hungarian oak.

Tom S

Tom,

Thanks for the reply. Would you care to comment on how each yeast
contributes differently (or have you not noticed a difference) to the
wine due to lees stirring?

Epernay II is EC1118 right? If so, I'd imagine it as a potentially
good candidate given it's Champagne genetics (I've currently got a
batch fermenting under it which I intend to lees stir with).

Have you ever used K1-V1116 for lees stirring?

Ben

> I like strains that don't have a tendency to form H2S. Of course _all_
> strains form at least _some_ H2S, but some are much worse than others in
> this regard.
>
> I've been using Lallemand CY3079 for the past few years with no problems. I
> used Epernay II (Côte de Blancs) prior to that - also with no problem.
>
> Tom S

Tom,

Thanks for the reply. Would you care to comment on how each yeast
contributes differently (or have you not noticed a difference) to the
wine due to lees stirring?

Epernay II is EC1118 right? If so, I'd imagine it as a potentially
good candidate given it's Champagne genetics (I've currently got a
batch fermenting under it which I intend to lees stir with).

Have you ever used K1-V1116 for lees stirring?

Ben

> I like strains that don't have a tendency to form H2S. Of course _all_
> strains form at least _some_ H2S, but some are much worse than others in
> this regard.
>
> I've been using Lallemand CY3079 for the past few years with no problems. I
> used Epernay II (Côte de Blancs) prior to that - also with no problem.
>
> Tom S

Ben, when you ask questions, they certainly are good ones. This one
is no exception.

I suppose the most stirred yeast in America is Lalvin CY3079, the
runaway favorite for Chardonnay. I use this yeast now for many other
whites (a winemaker was good enough to gift me a small tin of it) and
it does like being stirred. I made very buttery kiwi and mangosteen
wines (no, the latter are not Kosher mangos but rather a separate,
unrelated Asian fruit) recently. I have also stirred a batch of rose
petal wine made with SB 5 (Hock) and was very pleased.

For reds, I have been using both Lalvin AMH and RC212 with lees
stirring. I share Tom's concern about strains prone to H2S production
and RC212 fits that profile, but it is such a reliable strain for
blackberries that I must use it. Two very buttery batches of
blackberry wine have proven to me its worth sur lie. The
Assmanshausen (another gift) has worked well with my native mustang
and V. berlandieri grapes, as well as black cherry. Both of these
yeast strains benefit from nitrogen-enriched nutrients, which also
lowers the risk of H2S.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/


(Ben Rotter) wrote in message . com>...
> Hi all,
>
> For those who lees stir, I was wondering what your preferred yeast
> strains were for this purpose?
>
> (I did post on a similar topic some time ago but I think it was too
> specific (dealing with aroma/flavour contributions) to receive much
> feedback from the group. So I pose this question generality, though if
> you have info to share on contributions made by individual strains
> when lees stirring I'd love to hear about them!)
>
> Ben

Jack,

Thanks for the response. Sounds like I should get some CY3079 - I am
aware that this strain actually releases peptides at the end of
fermentation that are believed to enhance aromatics so it makes sense
it's such a favourite.

Have you noticed a significant difference in the leesy character
associated with different yeasts (e.g. between AMH and RC212) - or do
they all seem similar?

BTW, Tom, let us know how those new strains work out. I've also heard
good things about Hungarian oak.

Ben

Ben,

> Have you noticed a significant difference in the leesy character
> associated with different yeasts (e.g. between AMH and RC212) - or do
> they all seem similar?

Damn Google swallowed my response after 20 minutes of typing. This
reply will be shorter, I'm afraid.

I could not really tell a difference as the wines were so varied. The
AMH was used on two grape species and black cherry from concentrate
and the RC212 used with two batches of blackberry. No similarity to
hook onto as a point of reference for differences -- even the
blackberries had very different fruit quantities.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

Ben,

> Have you noticed a significant difference in the leesy character
> associated with different yeasts (e.g. between AMH and RC212) - or do
> they all seem similar?

Damn Google swallowed my response after 20 minutes of typing. This
reply will be shorter, I'm afraid.

I could not really tell a difference as the wines were so varied. The
AMH was used on two grape species and black cherry from concentrate
and the RC212 used with two batches of blackberry. No similarity to
hook onto as a point of reference for differences -- even the
blackberries had very different fruit quantities.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

Jack,

Thanks for the response. Sounds like I should get some CY3079 - I am
aware that this strain actually releases peptides at the end of
fermentation that are believed to enhance aromatics so it makes sense
it's such a favourite.

Have you noticed a significant difference in the leesy character
associated with different yeasts (e.g. between AMH and RC212) - or do
they all seem similar?

BTW, Tom, let us know how those new strains work out. I've also heard
good things about Hungarian oak.

Ben

"Ben Rotter" > wrote in message
om...
> Hi all,
>
> For those who lees stir, I was wondering what your preferred yeast
> strains were for this purpose?

I like strains that don't have a tendency to form H2S. Of course _all_
strains form at least _some_ H2S, but some are much worse than others in
this regard.

I've been using Lallemand CY3079 for the past few years with no problems. I
used Epernay II (Côte de Blancs) prior to that - also with no problem.

Tom S