After sucessfully making 6 kits, I think I'm ready to move on to some
country wines, specifically Nanking Cherry
(http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/request136.asp) and Saskatoon Berry
(http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/reques7.asp).

I'd like to make 6 gallons of each (so I can reuse my kit equipment),
but I believe Jack's recipes I linked to are for 1 gallon batches. I
plan on multiplying each ingredient by 6...is that okay? I would also
assume I need 6 nylon bags rather than trying to put all the crushed
berries in 1.

Any other tips/advice anyone could give me? I'd really appreciate it.

Cheers,
Harry

Many recipes are for 1 gallon batches. Just multipy all the ingredients by
the number of gallons you want to make. All except for the yeast. Use one
packet for any ammount up to 6 gallons. Be carefull on Jacks recipes
though. They are designed to yield a given ammount rather than start with a
given ammount. Have a gallon jug or two ready to take the overload. This
will give you wine to top with latter.

Ray.

"Harry Colquhoun" > wrote in message
om...
> After sucessfully making 6 kits, I think I'm ready to move on to some
> country wines, specifically Nanking Cherry
> (http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/request136.asp) and Saskatoon Berry
> (http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/reques7.asp).
>
> I'd like to make 6 gallons of each (so I can reuse my kit equipment),
> but I believe Jack's recipes I linked to are for 1 gallon batches. I
> plan on multiplying each ingredient by 6...is that okay? I would also
> assume I need 6 nylon bags rather than trying to put all the crushed
> berries in 1.
>
> Any other tips/advice anyone could give me? I'd really appreciate it.
>
> Cheers,
> Harry

Many recipes are for 1 gallon batches. Just multipy all the ingredients by
the number of gallons you want to make. All except for the yeast. Use one
packet for any ammount up to 6 gallons. Be carefull on Jacks recipes
though. They are designed to yield a given ammount rather than start with a
given ammount. Have a gallon jug or two ready to take the overload. This
will give you wine to top with latter.

Ray.

"Harry Colquhoun" > wrote in message
om...
> After sucessfully making 6 kits, I think I'm ready to move on to some
> country wines, specifically Nanking Cherry
> (http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/request136.asp) and Saskatoon Berry
> (http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/reques7.asp).
>
> I'd like to make 6 gallons of each (so I can reuse my kit equipment),
> but I believe Jack's recipes I linked to are for 1 gallon batches. I
> plan on multiplying each ingredient by 6...is that okay? I would also
> assume I need 6 nylon bags rather than trying to put all the crushed
> berries in 1.
>
> Any other tips/advice anyone could give me? I'd really appreciate it.
>
> Cheers,
> Harry

> I would also
> assume I need 6 nylon bags rather than trying to put all the crushed
> berries in 1.

Some common sense is all you need to scale up a recipe. Rather than 6
nylon bags (or 10, or 20!), you should use a single LARGER nylon bag.
They are made in various sizes for just this reason. Campden tablets
are meant to be used 1 per gallon, so yes - multiply. Same with the
sugar, pectic enzyme, and most other additives.

Since you mention having made wine from kits - where things are
premeasured - I hope that you have a hydrometer to measure the
original specific gravity of your berry must. Adding "2 lbs" of sugar
might have had different consequences for Jack Keller's berries than
it will for yours. I'd start with 1 lb, measure SG, and keep going in
increments as you see the effect that each added weight makes on the
SG. A safe generic starting SG to shoot for is 1.090.

Most berry wines (and many others) are easier to start when you freeze
the fruit for at least a couple of days. As the fruit thaws, the juice
is released more readily. If you thaw your berries (in a large plastic
pail with sealed cover), add pectic enzyme and 1 lb of sugar when they
warm up to "not frozen, just cold." After another 12-24 hours, you can
start crushing the berries with a potato masher or similar tool. You
can also use a handheld strainer (shaped like the Big Dipper) to press
down the berries and allow some juice to rise up. Dip a cup in and use
this to fill your hydrometer jar to measure SG.

I have fermented blueberries on the skins, but blackberries I cold
macerated for 3 days prior to pressing and fermenting the juice only.
I was told that the seeds could impart some harshness to the wine if
allowed to ferment.

Good luck,
Roger
Quinta do Placer

> I would also
> assume I need 6 nylon bags rather than trying to put all the crushed
> berries in 1.

Some common sense is all you need to scale up a recipe. Rather than 6
nylon bags (or 10, or 20!), you should use a single LARGER nylon bag.
They are made in various sizes for just this reason. Campden tablets
are meant to be used 1 per gallon, so yes - multiply. Same with the
sugar, pectic enzyme, and most other additives.

Since you mention having made wine from kits - where things are
premeasured - I hope that you have a hydrometer to measure the
original specific gravity of your berry must. Adding "2 lbs" of sugar
might have had different consequences for Jack Keller's berries than
it will for yours. I'd start with 1 lb, measure SG, and keep going in
increments as you see the effect that each added weight makes on the
SG. A safe generic starting SG to shoot for is 1.090.

Most berry wines (and many others) are easier to start when you freeze
the fruit for at least a couple of days. As the fruit thaws, the juice
is released more readily. If you thaw your berries (in a large plastic
pail with sealed cover), add pectic enzyme and 1 lb of sugar when they
warm up to "not frozen, just cold." After another 12-24 hours, you can
start crushing the berries with a potato masher or similar tool. You
can also use a handheld strainer (shaped like the Big Dipper) to press
down the berries and allow some juice to rise up. Dip a cup in and use
this to fill your hydrometer jar to measure SG.

I have fermented blueberries on the skins, but blackberries I cold
macerated for 3 days prior to pressing and fermenting the juice only.
I was told that the seeds could impart some harshness to the wine if
allowed to ferment.

Good luck,
Roger
Quinta do Placer

wrote in message . com>...
> > I would also
> > assume I need 6 nylon bags rather than trying to put all the crushed
> > berries in 1.
>
> Some common sense is all you need to scale up a recipe. Rather than 6
> nylon bags (or 10, or 20!), you should use a single LARGER nylon bag.
> They are made in various sizes for just this reason. Campden tablets
> are meant to be used 1 per gallon, so yes - multiply. Same with the
> sugar, pectic enzyme, and most other additives.

The reason I asked is because I imagined that one huge bag holding 24
pounds of crushed fruit has a lot less surface area than 6 smaller
bags -- not sure if that's an issue when it's immersed in the
fermenting liquid, but I wanted to make sure!

> Since you mention having made wine from kits - where things are
> premeasured - I hope that you have a hydrometer to measure the
> original specific gravity of your berry must. Adding "2 lbs" of sugar
> might have had different consequences for Jack Keller's berries than
> it will for yours. I'd start with 1 lb, measure SG, and keep going in
> increments as you see the effect that each added weight makes on the
> SG. A safe generic starting SG to shoot for is 1.090.

At what point in the process can I expect a true SG reading.
Obviously before fermentation starts, but are there sugars in the
crushed fruit that come out later during the process that can skew
results?

> Most berry wines (and many others) are easier to start when you freeze
> the fruit for at least a couple of days. As the fruit thaws, the juice
> is released more readily. If you thaw your berries (in a large plastic
> pail with sealed cover), add pectic enzyme and 1 lb of sugar when they
> warm up to "not frozen, just cold." After another 12-24 hours, you can
> start crushing the berries with a potato masher or similar tool.

With the saskatoon berries I need to boil them, but I will try this
with the cherries. Can I put the frozen berries in the nylon bag and
put that in the plastic primary to start thawing? Do I just sprinkle
the enzyme and sugar over everything or do I need to mix them with
water first?

> I have fermented blueberries on the skins, but blackberries I cold
> macerated for 3 days prior to pressing and fermenting the juice only.
> I was told that the seeds could impart some harshness to the wine if
> allowed to ferment.

Good to know!

Thanks for the response. I'm trying to cover all my questions now
since I can't just mosey down to the store and pick up another batch
should I screw one of these up like I could with kit wines.

Cheers,
Harry

wrote in message . com>...
> > I would also
> > assume I need 6 nylon bags rather than trying to put all the crushed
> > berries in 1.
>
> Some common sense is all you need to scale up a recipe. Rather than 6
> nylon bags (or 10, or 20!), you should use a single LARGER nylon bag.
> They are made in various sizes for just this reason. Campden tablets
> are meant to be used 1 per gallon, so yes - multiply. Same with the
> sugar, pectic enzyme, and most other additives.

The reason I asked is because I imagined that one huge bag holding 24
pounds of crushed fruit has a lot less surface area than 6 smaller
bags -- not sure if that's an issue when it's immersed in the
fermenting liquid, but I wanted to make sure!

> Since you mention having made wine from kits - where things are
> premeasured - I hope that you have a hydrometer to measure the
> original specific gravity of your berry must. Adding "2 lbs" of sugar
> might have had different consequences for Jack Keller's berries than
> it will for yours. I'd start with 1 lb, measure SG, and keep going in
> increments as you see the effect that each added weight makes on the
> SG. A safe generic starting SG to shoot for is 1.090.

At what point in the process can I expect a true SG reading.
Obviously before fermentation starts, but are there sugars in the
crushed fruit that come out later during the process that can skew
results?

> Most berry wines (and many others) are easier to start when you freeze
> the fruit for at least a couple of days. As the fruit thaws, the juice
> is released more readily. If you thaw your berries (in a large plastic
> pail with sealed cover), add pectic enzyme and 1 lb of sugar when they
> warm up to "not frozen, just cold." After another 12-24 hours, you can
> start crushing the berries with a potato masher or similar tool.

With the saskatoon berries I need to boil them, but I will try this
with the cherries. Can I put the frozen berries in the nylon bag and
put that in the plastic primary to start thawing? Do I just sprinkle
the enzyme and sugar over everything or do I need to mix them with
water first?

> I have fermented blueberries on the skins, but blackberries I cold
> macerated for 3 days prior to pressing and fermenting the juice only.
> I was told that the seeds could impart some harshness to the wine if
> allowed to ferment.

Good to know!

Thanks for the response. I'm trying to cover all my questions now
since I can't just mosey down to the store and pick up another batch
should I screw one of these up like I could with kit wines.

Cheers,
Harry

> The reason I asked is because I imagined that one huge bag holding 24
> pounds of crushed fruit has a lot less surface area than 6 smaller
> bags -- not sure if that's an issue when it's immersed in the
> fermenting liquid, but I wanted to make sure!

I don't think it matters. You will crush and mush the contents up
anyway, and the yeast will find the sugar (if you ferment on the
pulp).

> At what point in the process can I expect a true SG reading.
> Obviously before fermentation starts, but are there sugars in the
> crushed fruit that come out later during the process that can skew
> results?

If so, I don't think it would be significant. I did not ferment on the
pulp. I allowed the berries to thaw in a container for 72 hours. I did
sprinkle about 100 ppm of metabisulphite on the berries once they
became cool. And yes, you can just add your pectic enzyme directly (I
use liquid drops). It too will find its food. I mushed up the berries
a couple times a day once they became soft. After the pectic enzyme
does its work, you will have plenty of liquid on your hands. I did a
prelim SG measurement on that. The sugar also seems to help break down
the fruit, so I literally dumped it on top of the berries. Within a
couple of hours, it had dissolved.

I did not take a "real" original gravity reading until I pressed the
berries into liquid. That juice was my starting must, and I
ameliorated that with more sugar, so the SG reading was taken then. I
inoculated the juice with yeast and nutrient and fermented in a
carboy.

While I cannot speak for the finished wine, I am amazed at the aroma
and color. A 10% water dilution was enough to balance out the acid in
the dry wine. I am currently oaking it and we'll see how it goes.

Good luck!
Roger

(Harry Colquhoun) wrote in message . com>...
> wrote in message . com>...
> The reason I asked is because I imagined that one huge bag holding 24
> pounds of crushed fruit has a lot less surface area than 6 smaller
> bags -- not sure if that's an issue when it's immersed in the
> fermenting liquid, but I wanted to make sure!
>

Well, why do you think you have to press all solids in one go? You can
divide them into as many "batches" as you like and press them
separately. I ferment on skins without the bag, just like grapes, and
then scoop out the solids into the pressing bag. Works great.

Pp