Over the past few years of operating a winery, one of our focus of
studies has been marketing. Both my wife and I came from production
backgrounds, but still understand the extreme need for effective
marketing. So we've ingested several books, sat through endless
marketing lectures, and continue to seek new and effective (if not
inexpensive) ways to market our business.

But in our studies we tended to skip any chapters on business to
business marketing. As we now launch into a sideline business, this
aspect of B2B marketing has come to the forefront. I'm quite
confident in the product and how useful and functional it is in the
cellar, but it's a relatively new concept and I now wonder about the
difficulty of conveying this concept to the customer; short of a live
demonstration. Plans are to demo these at Wineries Unlimited next
year (Unified has a waiting list for exhibitors!) but it would be
icing on the cake to sell some units online.

Over this past week I designed/built some web pages for this new
product. This is still in the infant stages of design, but as I look
back over the site I had to ask myself, "Would I plop down nearly $2k
from the information available", and the answer was a resounding
"No!"; not without seeing it work or having more verifiable
information.

I have a few ideas for some details to add, but was hoping to use this
group as a sounding board to gather opinions and ideas. Many of you
have already visited my site named Vinic, but the main page has now
been converted for marketing our wireless wine pump control at:
http://www.vinic.com

As mentioned before, the site is still in the development stage and
has yet to be officially 'launched'. Plans are to list it sometime
next month.

As a final note, one of the main roadblocks that I can foresee in
marketing this device is that established wineries will already have
some form of pump control in place; usually a corded remote control.
These units will basically become obsolete and the question is, will
people be willing to take the expense of upgrade for safety and
convenience?

Wineries just starting out should easily be able to see the benefits
of outfitting the winery with centralized pump control(s). The
reduced weight of the pump is enough of a benefit to convince most
people, but these things are much more handy than even I had
envisioned.


TIA,

clyde

Well, here is a big one. Put your contact information on your site. If
someone is interested or has questions, how the hell they gonna get in touch
with ya? I, and many online purchasers, are 100% against only being able to
contact the company via a webform. A lot of people even like to know where
you are located (which is important for sales tax. If you are selling to
the people in your state, you have to tax them, you can't just say "no
state" like your form options). You are emphasizing B2B, which implies you
are going after wineries. They are going to want to talk to someone,
especially for $2K a pop.

Second, have a video of the unit in action on your site to download.

You say it is small and lightweight. What are the dimensions and weight of
it?

People love pictures. Have pictures of the unit in use.

"Clyde Gill" > wrote in message
om...
> Over the past few years of operating a winery, one of our focus of
> studies has been marketing. Both my wife and I came from production
> backgrounds, but still understand the extreme need for effective
> marketing. So we've ingested several books, sat through endless
> marketing lectures, and continue to seek new and effective (if not
> inexpensive) ways to market our business.
>
> But in our studies we tended to skip any chapters on business to
> business marketing. As we now launch into a sideline business, this
> aspect of B2B marketing has come to the forefront. I'm quite
> confident in the product and how useful and functional it is in the
> cellar, but it's a relatively new concept and I now wonder about the
> difficulty of conveying this concept to the customer; short of a live
> demonstration. Plans are to demo these at Wineries Unlimited next
> year (Unified has a waiting list for exhibitors!) but it would be
> icing on the cake to sell some units online.
>
> Over this past week I designed/built some web pages for this new
> product. This is still in the infant stages of design, but as I look
> back over the site I had to ask myself, "Would I plop down nearly $2k
> from the information available", and the answer was a resounding
> "No!"; not without seeing it work or having more verifiable
> information.
>
> I have a few ideas for some details to add, but was hoping to use this
> group as a sounding board to gather opinions and ideas. Many of you
> have already visited my site named Vinic, but the main page has now
> been converted for marketing our wireless wine pump control at:
> http://www.vinic.com
>
> As mentioned before, the site is still in the development stage and
> has yet to be officially 'launched'. Plans are to list it sometime
> next month.
>
> As a final note, one of the main roadblocks that I can foresee in
> marketing this device is that established wineries will already have
> some form of pump control in place; usually a corded remote control.
> These units will basically become obsolete and the question is, will
> people be willing to take the expense of upgrade for safety and
> convenience?
>
> Wineries just starting out should easily be able to see the benefits
> of outfitting the winery with centralized pump control(s). The
> reduced weight of the pump is enough of a benefit to convince most
> people, but these things are much more handy than even I had
> envisioned.
>
>
> TIA,
>
> clyde

"Clyde Gill" > wrote in message

> Plans are to demo these at Wineries Unlimited next
> year (Unified has a waiting list for exhibitors!) but it would be
> icing on the cake to sell some units online.

That is a good step. It can be expensive when you add in travel cost, but
you are getting to the people that will actually use your product.


>
> Over this past week I designed/built some web pages for this new
> product. This is still in the infant stages of design, but as I look
> back over the site I had to ask myself, "Would I plop down nearly $2k
> from the information available", and the answer was a resounding
> "No!"; not without seeing it work or having more verifiable
> information.

Picture, pictures, pictures. I see the control and the remote, but i don't
see anything else. Does it control one pump? Show it and how it is
connected, at least in some visual format, not detailed wiring. Show it "in
action" to generate more interest. Let's see some vats or barrels in the
bacground.

You state it has four speeds and forward and reverse. OK, I believe you but
the control has numbers from 1 to 6. Surely you don't expect people to
remember that 5 means forward, etc.

Be a little bolder with the statements of what it does. Sort of like a
bulleted list rather than a simple paragraph of text.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

It goes to 11.

"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> You state it has four speeds and forward and reverse. OK, I believe you
but
> the control has numbers from 1 to 6. Surely you don't expect people to
> remember that 5 means forward, etc.

"Adam Lang" > wrote in message
...
> It goes to 11.
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!
>
> "Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > You state it has four speeds and forward and reverse. OK, I believe you
> but
> > the control has numbers from 1 to 6. Surely you don't expect people to
> > remember that 5 means forward, etc.
>
>

Clyde - Why are pumps with attached controls becoming obsolete? With
regard to your product it's not clear to me if the control can be used
with any pump or do you have to order pumps designed to be operated with the
control. Is there a cost advantage with your control versus the "attached
control" pump? Can the control be easily installed? Is there programing
involved? Can more than one pump be operated with a single control? An
idea for you ~ In the past year I've received VCR tapes that demonstrate a
product [The Perfect Club (golf), The DR Power Wagon (gardening tool)]. I
was interested in both products to begin with and the videos iced the cake.
I bought both products. I think this would really help your sales effort>

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas

"Clyde Gill" > wrote in message
om...
>
As we now launch into a sideline business, this
> aspect of B2B marketing has come to the forefront. I'm quite
> confident in the product and how useful and functional it is in the
> cellar, but it's a relatively new concept and I now wonder about the
> difficulty of conveying this concept to the customer; short of a live
> demonstration. Plans are to demo these at Wineries Unlimited next
> year (Unified has a waiting list for exhibitors!) but it would be
> icing on the cake to sell some units online.
>

This is the 21st century and people are mailing vcr tapes? That's so
90s.

"William Frazier" > wrote in message
...
> Clyde - Why are pumps with attached controls becoming obsolete? With
> regard to your product it's not clear to me if the control can be used
> with any pump or do you have to order pumps designed to be operated with
the
> control. Is there a cost advantage with your control versus the "attached
> control" pump? Can the control be easily installed? Is there programing
> involved? Can more than one pump be operated with a single control? An
> idea for you ~ In the past year I've received VCR tapes that demonstrate a
> product [The Perfect Club (golf), The DR Power Wagon (gardening tool)]. I
> was interested in both products to begin with and the videos iced the
cake.
> I bought both products. I think this would really help your sales effort>
>
> Bill Frazier
> Olathe, Kansas

Constructed criticism by the group should not be scorned on but applauded

as they give a frank view of your product,

======

Clyde Gill

Steelville, Missouri, USA

Occupation: Winery Owner (peaceful bend vineyard)



meta name="description" content="The Midwest forum to buy, sell, trade used
winery and vineyard equipment"
meta name="keywords" content="Missouri, grape, grapes, vineyard, vineyards,
French-American Hybrid, Hybrid grapes, vinegar, vintage, wine"
meta name="robots" content="index, follow"
meta name="Abstract" content="Midwest Winery Classifieds"

meta name="Revisit-After" content="30 Days"
title Vinic | Wireless Wine Pump Control. /title



http://www.peacefulbendvineyard.com/



PeacefulBendVineyard.com provides a virtual look at the unique winery
located along the Meramec River at the edge of Missouri's pristine Ozark
Wilderness



"Clyde Gill" > wrote in message
m...



misn.com


Property of Clyde and Katie Gill
Peaceful Bend Vineyard, L.L.C.
1942 Highway T
Steelville, Missouri USofA 65565




In other words, you plug the pump into the unit, turn the power switch on,
and the remote becomes 'live'.

Comment :-I would like to take you up on this point,

Anything that can go wrong will, were is the manual over ride.



It would suggest from your operation manual that the transmitter is on all
the time even when the power for the pump is switched off.

Also there does not seem to be any indication to the power source

the transmitter uses.


I find no problem with it in my cellar, but then again I designed and built
the thing! I've got an optional transmitter that has places for name tags.
Possibly some simple, waterproof stickers!?



Comment:- Has any body attempted to use your contraption other than your
self, I would say not, it does not sound very versatile or user friendly.

your product is to expensive at $1885

> Stephen SG wrote:

>Constructed criticism by the group should not be scorned on but
applauded

>as they give a frank view of your product,


I think I agree.... that is if you meant to say 'constructive
criticism'.

Appearantly you think my response was in scorn!? I assure you that
was not my intent and reading it over again I fail to see how it could
be interpreted that way!? But learning to communicate online, in the
written word, is a continual lesson for me and I know that I'm often
misinterpreted. From the repsonse of this group, I have picked up
some good ideals, was shown some great insight on how I should present
things, and said thanx at least twice. If that wasn't enough, thanx
again everyone! Just because I explain my point of view does not mean
I scorn or discount the comment.


>>In other words, you plug the pump into the unit, turn the power
switch on,
>>and the remote becomes 'live'.

>Comment :-I would like to take you up on this point,

>Anything that can go wrong will, were is the manual over ride.

There's a manual power switch on the side of the wall mount. When in
the off position, power is disconnected from everything in the box
including the receiver and the AC drive.



>It would suggest from your operation manual that the transmitter is
on all
>the time even when the power for the pump is switched off.

Yes. Much like the remote to a TV or a keyless entry to a car. And
just like those devices, it doesn't use any power unless a button is
depressed. That's why your TV remote will go dead if it spends too
much time between the seat cushions, but will last awhile if only
sitting on the coffee table. The transmitter to the Vinic may be able
to send a signal at any time, but unless the receiver has power to it,
the signal does nothing.... unless it happens to open your garage
door, but then it can be set to a different frequency.

>Also there does not seem to be any indication to the power source

>the transmitter uses.

Good point. It's a standard (at least here in the US) 9Vdc battery
cell.


>>I find no problem with it in my cellar, but then again I designed
and built
>>the thing! I've got an optional transmitter that has places for name
tags.
>>Possibly some simple, waterproof stickers!?



>Comment:- Has any body attempted to use your contraption other than
your
>self,

Yes.

>I would say not, it does not sound very versatile or user friendly.

I'm curious why you would say this and what would make you think that?
The prototype I made has a cord for the power so it can be plugged
into any 240 3phase wall outlet. Beyond trying it on pumps at several
other local wineries, I hooked it up to my destemmer/crusher and my
grape press to regulate their speeds. Won't be able to actually test
it until harvest, but it seems to work fine dry. The remote function
is a bit overkill for these machines, but it does a nice job with
variable speed.

The AC drive that is the heart of this unit is a relatively new
advent. I believe they showed up on the scene in this form about six
years ago, and the price is just now coming within reach for practical
use. They are available in many power ranges, but 2Hp, 240 3 phase is
the most common pump motor in wineries. It controls the frequency
output of the power, which in turn makes any motor of this type run at
various speeds. They're quite common in industry these days... just
nobody has hooked them up with a wireless remote before... at least
that I know of. And, BTW, this setup wouldn't work with just any AC
drive.


> your product is to expensive at $1885

Yet again, I'm curious why you would say this? Keep in mind this
isn't for home use.

There's nothing else out there like this at this point, so it's fairly
difficult to comparison shop. As I mentioned before, the price is
inline with comparable corded remote controls. Don't get me wrong, I
intend to make a profit off this, but you'd be hard pressed to build
one for much less than this, unless you could get the volume discounts
I receive on the various components. My profit margin is not that
great.

Your comments have not been ignored, evidenced by my response. They
will all continue to be taken in, processed, and help contribute to
this project and I'm deeply indebted.

Also, my questions within the responses are *not* rhetorical, which if
read them that way might, this be interpreted as scorn. But I
genuinely would like to know the answers.

Thanx Stephen and others, before now and in the future with the help
you've given me.

Kindest Regards,

clyde
http://www.Vinic.com
http://www.PeacefulBend.com
http://www.MissouriGrapeGrowers.org
http://www.JulieBaloghPottery.com

Wonderful concept and a fine product. The comments were pretty thorough.
My suggestion is that you review patent and intellectual property law. Pay
particular attention to disclosure of ideas which may invalidate any future
parent on said idea. I say this as you seem to be a go-getter, and you
might apply patent law concepts to other ideas/ products you have in the
future.

--
KB
MO

> Wonderful concept and a fine product. The comments were pretty thorough.
> My suggestion is that you review patent and intellectual property law. Pay
> particular attention to disclosure of ideas which may invalidate any future
> parent on said idea. I say this as you seem to be a go-getter, and you
> might apply patent law concepts to other ideas/ products you have in the
> future.

The subject has come up before... in fact, just the other day on our
porch during a music event. I also took the idea to our lawyer awhile
back (not a patent lawyer). There's much to consider about such a
process. The cost is among the top considerations at this point.
Though the gadget is fairly original, assembling other peoples
components is not a new concept. I researched such things as Dell
computers, which basically started as an IBM clone back in the mid
80's. It looks like their first patent was applied for in 1999, which
was about 15 years after Michael sold his first computer!

There's quite a bit of expense involved with patents. Trade marks are
a little easier and less expensive. I'm sure if this idea takes off,
I'll be looking much closer at this end of the biz.

Along the lines of another idea, as this project has developed, it's
been difficult for any of us involved to believe that nobody else has
made one yet. Maybe I have too high of an opinion of how it works,
but I've been in quite a few winery sitiuations in the past decade,
and it's like sliced bread for me. But beyond all that, I never
thought of myself as an inventor, and really have trouble believing
that I could come up with anymore! This was more of necessity being
the mother... in combination with a very specific situation I put
myself in; ie. owning a pump that had *no* controls and not being
able to justify the purchase of the remotes available..... combined
with some new devices showing up on the market at the same time.


Thanx for the compliments and the suggestion. Even though it may
sound like I've ruled out any patents, as this project moves to the
next stage, it will be reconsidered.

clyde

Hi All

The expense of getting a patent can be prohibitive. The cost of
defending the patent can be downright ruinous. The issue is not whether
or not there will be a copycat product. If your product is good and
useful, or more importantly, profitable there will be a competing
product in short order. The issue is can you afford to bring a suit to
defend your patent. Consider that a good patent attorney will charge
$400/hr or more and typically spend 50 to 100 hours before walking into
a courtroom.

If you are able to sell 1000 units the first year @ a gross profit(funds
left over after product cost) of $1000/unit, you have a gross profit of
$1,000,000. These funds pay for marketing, advertising, administrative
costs, etc. When all the dust settles if you have a tenth of that
number left over you have done pretty well. Unless I miss my mark, 1000
units the first year is a pretty husky goal. So you can adjust
accordingly.

Build and market your product. Enjoy the fruits of your labor and start
thinking of ways to improve that product once it begins to sell. Then
start to think of another product to bring to market. Then you're in
the game. It's easier, cheaper, and you'll lose less sleep.

For what it's worth

Frank



Clyde Gill wrote:

>>Wonderful concept and a fine product. The comments were pretty thorough.
>>My suggestion is that you review patent and intellectual property law. Pay
>>particular attention to disclosure of ideas which may invalidate any future
>>parent on said idea. I say this as you seem to be a go-getter, and you
>>might apply patent law concepts to other ideas/ products you have in the
>>future.
>
>
> The subject has come up before... in fact, just the other day on our
> porch during a music event. I also took the idea to our lawyer awhile
> back (not a patent lawyer). There's much to consider about such a
> process. The cost is among the top considerations at this point.
> Though the gadget is fairly original, assembling other peoples
> components is not a new concept. I researched such things as Dell
> computers, which basically started as an IBM clone back in the mid
> 80's. It looks like their first patent was applied for in 1999, which
> was about 15 years after Michael sold his first computer!
>
> There's quite a bit of expense involved with patents. Trade marks are
> a little easier and less expensive. I'm sure if this idea takes off,
> I'll be looking much closer at this end of the biz.
>
> Along the lines of another idea, as this project has developed, it's
> been difficult for any of us involved to believe that nobody else has
> made one yet. Maybe I have too high of an opinion of how it works,
> but I've been in quite a few winery sitiuations in the past decade,
> and it's like sliced bread for me. But beyond all that, I never
> thought of myself as an inventor, and really have trouble believing
> that I could come up with anymore! This was more of necessity being
> the mother... in combination with a very specific situation I put
> myself in; ie. owning a pump that had *no* controls and not being
> able to justify the purchase of the remotes available..... combined
> with some new devices showing up on the market at the same time.
>
>
> Thanx for the compliments and the suggestion. Even though it may
> sound like I've ruled out any patents, as this project moves to the
> next stage, it will be reconsidered.
>
> clyde

Plus, the way the patent lawsuits go is, you sue the infringer after they
make money, so you can point out damages and market infringement and so that
they have money to actually take.

"Frank Mirigliano" > wrote in message
...
> Hi All
>
> The expense of getting a patent can be prohibitive. The cost of
> defending the patent can be downright ruinous. The issue is not whether
> or not there will be a copycat product. If your product is good and
> useful, or more importantly, profitable there will be a competing
> product in short order. The issue is can you afford to bring a suit to
> defend your patent. Consider that a good patent attorney will charge
> $400/hr or more and typically spend 50 to 100 hours before walking into
> a courtroom.
>
> If you are able to sell 1000 units the first year @ a gross profit(funds
> left over after product cost) of $1000/unit, you have a gross profit of
> $1,000,000. These funds pay for marketing, advertising, administrative
> costs, etc. When all the dust settles if you have a tenth of that
> number left over you have done pretty well. Unless I miss my mark, 1000
> units the first year is a pretty husky goal. So you can adjust
> accordingly.
>
> Build and market your product. Enjoy the fruits of your labor and start
> thinking of ways to improve that product once it begins to sell. Then
> start to think of another product to bring to market. Then you're in
> the game. It's easier, cheaper, and you'll lose less sleep.
>
> For what it's worth
>
> Frank
>
>
>
> Clyde Gill wrote:
>
> >>Wonderful concept and a fine product. The comments were pretty
thorough.
> >>My suggestion is that you review patent and intellectual property law.
Pay
> >>particular attention to disclosure of ideas which may invalidate any
future
> >>parent on said idea. I say this as you seem to be a go-getter, and you
> >>might apply patent law concepts to other ideas/ products you have in the
> >>future.
> >
> >
> > The subject has come up before... in fact, just the other day on our
> > porch during a music event. I also took the idea to our lawyer awhile
> > back (not a patent lawyer). There's much to consider about such a
> > process. The cost is among the top considerations at this point.
> > Though the gadget is fairly original, assembling other peoples
> > components is not a new concept. I researched such things as Dell
> > computers, which basically started as an IBM clone back in the mid
> > 80's. It looks like their first patent was applied for in 1999, which
> > was about 15 years after Michael sold his first computer!
> >
> > There's quite a bit of expense involved with patents. Trade marks are
> > a little easier and less expensive. I'm sure if this idea takes off,
> > I'll be looking much closer at this end of the biz.
> >
> > Along the lines of another idea, as this project has developed, it's
> > been difficult for any of us involved to believe that nobody else has
> > made one yet. Maybe I have too high of an opinion of how it works,
> > but I've been in quite a few winery sitiuations in the past decade,
> > and it's like sliced bread for me. But beyond all that, I never
> > thought of myself as an inventor, and really have trouble believing
> > that I could come up with anymore! This was more of necessity being
> > the mother... in combination with a very specific situation I put
> > myself in; ie. owning a pump that had *no* controls and not being
> > able to justify the purchase of the remotes available..... combined
> > with some new devices showing up on the market at the same time.
> >
> >
> > Thanx for the compliments and the suggestion. Even though it may
> > sound like I've ruled out any patents, as this project moves to the
> > next stage, it will be reconsidered.
> >
> > clyde
>

Frank Mirigliano wrote :

> Hi All
>
> The expense of getting a patent can be prohibitive. The cost of
> defending the patent can be downright ruinous. The issue is not whether
> or not there will be a copycat product. If your product is good and
> useful, or more importantly, profitable there will be a competing
> product in short order. The issue is can you afford to bring a suit to
> defend your patent. Consider that a good patent attorney will charge
> $400/hr or more and typically spend 50 to 100 hours before walking into
> a courtroom.
>

Thanx for putting this in perspective Frank.


> If you are able to sell 1000 units the first year @ a gross profit(funds
> left over after product cost) of $1000/unit, you have a gross profit of
> $1,000,000.

I have to admit, this is much more ambitious sales figures than I had
in mind and with less than half that profit margin.

My first year goal is to sell 1/10 of your figure. I'm prepared to
deal with more, but have limited expectations given the investment
involved.

I suspect your scenario of someone else picking up on the idea is
probably closest to reality. Unless by some miracle this just takes
off overnight, I won't have the resources to market this like an OEM
that already has the channels greased. The most that can be hoped for
is building a name for being the first.

BTW, I read the response you sent me about trade shows and took that
information in with great consideration too. I'm rarely prepared to
respond to emails in that mailbox(it's only used as a spam trap), and
combined with a distraction, I failed to give your message proper
attention. BTW, sending a message to anything (at) vinic.com will get
to me daily (replace (at) with @ and eliminate spaces).

We do similar types of sales with our wine, and I've attended trade
shows as a patron and an exhibitor (another industry), so your notes
about professionalism ring loud. One of the hopes I have is to team
up with someone that already has a booth and a full display. This is
the *only* way we'd be able to attend the Unified in Sacramento.
Seems to me it would work out at *any* show... as much as anything, it
would dramatically reduce the fee's involved! Also, we are prepared
to have the both properly manned the entire time while I'm out
spending all that extra money made from the sales!! ; ^ ) ~

clyde
Steelville, MO, USofA
http://www.Vinic.com
http://www.PeacefulBend.com