Methanol?
 

Is it only turbo yeasts which are capable of producing methanol? Or is there
any chance wine yeasts could accidentally produce methanol?

Methanol?
 

Of what I know, Methanol will be produced by any yeast if the correct
nutrients are present. You will find that if you were to test pretty much
any alcoholic product, you would most likely find methanol of various
concentraions. You will find, though, that any product that has been
fermented with vast amounts of cellulose and certain types of starches
(pectin) for extended amounts of time will have higher concentraions of
methanol. IE a white wine will have a lower amount of Methanol then say a
Shiraz which has been fermented with the skins. This is not to say that all
yeasts will produce the same amount of methanol under the same conditions.

Without knowing what you are trying to do (and how etc.), it is hard to tell
if you may produce methanol, or more precisely how much. If you can tell
us, we will be able to help you.

Rob


Chris F wrote:

> Is it only turbo yeasts which are capable of producing methanol? Or is
> there any chance wine yeasts could accidentally produce methanol?

Methanol?
 

A significant source of methanol is pectic enzymes. This is one reason why
these should never be used with caution on wines that are to be distilled.
"Chris F" > wrote in message
...
> Is it only turbo yeasts which are capable of producing methanol? Or is
there
> any chance wine yeasts could accidentally produce methanol?
>
>

Methanol?
 

Andrew,
sorry, but you are some way off. It's NOT the pectic enzyme that causes the
trouble. The pectin itself is. The pectic enzyme breaks down pectin, that is
the source of methanol. So if you use pectic enzyme in juice that containes
pectin, you can get rid of almost all methanolproduction, provided you toss
the yeast in after a few hours of enzyme-activity. Then, throw away the
first 40-50 ml of alcohol (if you are distilling) that can contain any trace
of methanol and a lot of off-flavours. Perfectly safe. If you use water and
sugar, citric acid, yeast-nutrients and turbo yeast, you wille have no
methanol whatsoever. What you don't produce, can't be distilled.

Ed

No flowers, no bees;
no leaves on the trees;
no wonder;
november.

"Andrew L Drumm" > schreef in bericht
...
> A significant source of methanol is pectic enzymes. This is one reason why
> these should never be used with caution on wines that are to be distilled.
> "Chris F" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Is it only turbo yeasts which are capable of producing methanol? Or is
> there
> > any chance wine yeasts could accidentally produce methanol?
> >
> >
>
>

Methanol?
 

"ed montforts" > wrote in message
...
> Andrew,
> sorry, but you are some way off. It's NOT the pectic enzyme that causes
the
> trouble. The pectin itself is. The pectic enzyme breaks down pectin, that
is
Sorry, I wasn't clear, and you are correct.

But, as a commercial winemaker I only deal with grape juices, where there
are always pectins, therefore use of pectic enzymes will always produce
methanol - which agrees with what you say, just coming from the effect, not
the cause! And when I talked about distillation, I meant production of
brandy or SVR, which is an (increasingly) uncommon destination for wines
these days.

Methanol?
 

"ed montforts" > wrote in message
> sorry, but you are some way off. It's NOT the pectic enzyme that causes the
> trouble. The pectin itself is. The pectic enzyme breaks down pectin, that is
> the source of methanol. So if you use pectic enzyme in juice that containes
> pectin, you can get rid of almost all methanolproduction, provided you toss

Actually, I think *that's* the wrong way round.

Methanol results from the hydrolysis of pectin by pectin
methylesterase enzymes (PME). It's the action of the PME which
produces the methanol. Since PME is one of the enzymes typically used
in most commercial pectic enzyme preparations, use of most pectic
enzymes will result in increased methanol production.

This increase, however, is usually low (at least in grape wines) and
most of the methanol resulting from it is reputed to be lost with CO2
during fermentation.

Ben

Improved Winemaking
http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/

Methanol?
 

I guess what this is indicating is that if you are going to distill the wine
to brandy, do not use pectic enzyme. After all, if you are going to distill
it, you do not need for it to clear.

Ray

"Ben Rotter" > wrote in message
om...
> "ed montforts" > wrote in message
> > sorry, but you are some way off. It's NOT the pectic enzyme that causes
the
> > trouble. The pectin itself is. The pectic enzyme breaks down pectin,
that is
> > the source of methanol. So if you use pectic enzyme in juice that
containes
> > pectin, you can get rid of almost all methanolproduction, provided you
toss
>
> Actually, I think *that's* the wrong way round.
>
> Methanol results from the hydrolysis of pectin by pectin
> methylesterase enzymes (PME). It's the action of the PME which
> produces the methanol. Since PME is one of the enzymes typically used
> in most commercial pectic enzyme preparations, use of most pectic
> enzymes will result in increased methanol production.
>
> This increase, however, is usually low (at least in grape wines) and
> most of the methanol resulting from it is reputed to be lost with CO2
> during fermentation.
>
> Ben
>
> Improved Winemaking
> http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/

Methanol?
 

"Ben Rotter" > wrote in message
om...
> "ed montforts" > wrote in message
> > sorry, but you are some way off. It's NOT the pectic enzyme that causes
the
> > trouble. The pectin itself is. The pectic enzyme breaks down pectin,
that is
> > the source of methanol. So if you use pectic enzyme in juice that
containes
> > pectin, you can get rid of almost all methanolproduction, provided you
toss
>
> Actually, I think *that's* the wrong way round.
>
> Methanol results from the hydrolysis of pectin by pectin
> methylesterase enzymes (PME). It's the action of the PME which
> produces the methanol. Since PME is one of the enzymes typically used
> in most commercial pectic enzyme preparations, use of most pectic
> enzymes will result in increased methanol production.
>
> This increase, however, is usually low (at least in grape wines) and
> most of the methanol resulting from it is reputed to be lost with CO2
> during fermentation.
Methanol boils at 148*F, 30* below ethanol. I suspect it shouldn't be
much of a problem with most wines; to be honest, this is the first I've read
of methanol being involved in the fermentation process.
Anyone have any figures on % of methanol in =any= known wines?
Bob

Methanol?
 

"Bob" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
>
> "Ben Rotter" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "ed montforts" > wrote in message
> > > sorry, but you are some way off. It's NOT the pectic enzyme that
causes
> the
> > > trouble. The pectin itself is. The pectic enzyme breaks down pectin,
> that is
> > > the source of methanol. So if you use pectic enzyme in juice that
> containes
> > > pectin, you can get rid of almost all methanolproduction, provided you
> toss
> >
> > Actually, I think *that's* the wrong way round.
> >
> > Methanol results from the hydrolysis of pectin by pectin
> > methylesterase enzymes (PME). It's the action of the PME which
> > produces the methanol. Since PME is one of the enzymes typically used
> > in most commercial pectic enzyme preparations, use of most pectic
> > enzymes will result in increased methanol production.
> >
> > This increase, however, is usually low (at least in grape wines) and
> > most of the methanol resulting from it is reputed to be lost with CO2
> > during fermentation.
> Methanol boils at 148*F, 30* below ethanol. I suspect it shouldn't be
> much of a problem with most wines; to be honest, this is the first I've
read
> of methanol being involved in the fermentation process.
> Anyone have any figures on % of methanol in =any= known wines?
> Bob

In "Concepts in Wine Chemistry," Margalit indicates that wines can contain
"from 40 to several hundred milligrams per liter" of methanol.
Lum
Del Mar, California, USA

Methanol?
 

"Lum" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob" > wrote in message
> hlink.net...
> > Anyone have any figures on % of methanol in =any= known wines?
> > Bob
>
> In "Concepts in Wine Chemistry," Margalit indicates that wines can contain
> "from 40 to several hundred milligrams per liter" of methanol.
Thanks!
That hardly seems worth bothering with. I let my wines sit in the carboy
with an airlock for a year at least before bottling; it's got to come out
early with such a low boiling point........

Methanol?
 

I don't think it is a question of whether it is a problem in wine. But when
you distill the wine you will concentrate the methanol and then it can be a
problem.

Ray

"Bob" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Lum" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Bob" > wrote in message
> > hlink.net...
> > > Anyone have any figures on % of methanol in =any= known wines?
> > > Bob
> >
> > In "Concepts in Wine Chemistry," Margalit indicates that wines can
contain
> > "from 40 to several hundred milligrams per liter" of methanol.
> Thanks!
> That hardly seems worth bothering with. I let my wines sit in the
carboy
> with an airlock for a year at least before bottling; it's got to come out
> early with such a low boiling point........
>
>
>

Methanol?
 

"Ray" > wrote:

> I don't think it is a question of whether it is a problem in wine. But when
> you distill the wine you will concentrate the methanol and then it can be a
> problem.

Because of its low boiling point, the methanol is present in the first
portion of the distillate (called "the heads"). This portion is
dicarded, thus removing the high concentration of methanol from the
distilled beverage. The methanol content of wine which is to be
distilled is not really an issue.

Ben

Improved Winemaking
http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/

Methanol?
 

"Ben Rotter" > wrote in message
om...
> Because of its low boiling point, the methanol is present in the first
> portion of the distillate (called "the heads"). This portion is
> dicarded, thus removing the high concentration of methanol from the
> distilled beverage. The methanol content of wine which is to be
> distilled is not really an issue.
But if you are producing wine for distillation, then less methanol is
better, as not all of it is distilled early - there is no magic point at
which methanol disappears, instead it gradually decreases. It is often
desirable to retain some of the heads, as they are often strongly aromatic
alcohols and esters, and the cut for heads with a higher methanol component
must be made later than for lower methanol components.

Probably the best solution for wines that are to be distilled is a
centrifuge, but at around AUD90k even my commercial winery won't be buying
one of them soon...