Winemaking (rec.crafts.winemaking) Discussion of the process, recipes, tips, techniques and general exchange of lore on the process, methods and history of wine making. Includes traditional grape wines, sparkling wines & champagnes.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Joe Ae
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dry Corks

I recently bottled some wine and I didn't realize until too late that I had
some really awful looking corks on hand. These were not agglomerated they
were plain cork. They were very uneven with dents and crevices. They
looked like they were shaped by someone with a knife who had too much wine
to drink. It was almost impossible to find a smooth area that would go all
the way around the circumference.

I decided to go ahead and bottle since I had already sterilized the bottles
and had already filled quite a few. As I suspected many of the bottles
leaked within a few days. I stood these up and drank them over the coming
month.

I was surprised to find some of the corks broke in half during removal.
At first I thought it was probably that they were bad corks but now I am
wondering if my wine cellar is too dry. Would the corks breaking in half
be a symptom of this?

Has anyone else experienced these type of problems with corks?

Joe



  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Vic
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dry Corks

bad corks and bad storage are a bad start.
try soaking the corks in a mild sulfite solution prior to bottling - and get
better corks to start.
"Joe Ae" > wrote in message
. ..
> I recently bottled some wine and I didn't realize until too late that I

had
> some really awful looking corks on hand. These were not agglomerated they
> were plain cork. They were very uneven with dents and crevices. They
> looked like they were shaped by someone with a knife who had too much wine
> to drink. It was almost impossible to find a smooth area that would go

all
> the way around the circumference.
>
> I decided to go ahead and bottle since I had already sterilized the

bottles
> and had already filled quite a few. As I suspected many of the bottles
> leaked within a few days. I stood these up and drank them over the coming
> month.
>
> I was surprised to find some of the corks broke in half during removal.
> At first I thought it was probably that they were bad corks but now I am
> wondering if my wine cellar is too dry. Would the corks breaking in half
> be a symptom of this?
>
> Has anyone else experienced these type of problems with corks?
>
> Joe
>
>
>



  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Larry Meeusen
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dry Corks

One of the best methods I have found for ensuring that corks stay moist
and pliant is to place a bottle of sulphite solution in a 5 or 6 gallon
pail, pack the corks around the bottle and fit the lid on tightly. The
bottle of sulphite solution creates a humid and sterile environment for
the corks which will store until needed.
Larry



> > I was surprised to find some of the corks broke in half during removal.
> > At first I thought it was probably that they were bad corks but now I am
> > wondering if my wine cellar is too dry. Would the corks breaking in half
> > be a symptom of this?
> >
> > Has anyone else experienced these type of problems with corks?
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >
> >





--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Joe Sallustio
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dry Corks

It's not the cellar, it's the corks. The top is all that is exposed
to air, it's not a lot of surface area. Most cellars atre dryer in
the winter than summer, it's not a big deal. Good corks should be soft
enough to squeeze between your fingers.
Regards,
Joe


> I was surprised to find some of the corks broke in half during removal.
> At first I thought it was probably that they were bad corks but now I am
> wondering if my wine cellar is too dry. Would the corks breaking in half
> be a symptom of this?
>
> Has anyone else experienced these type of problems with corks?
>
> Joe

  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Joe Ae
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dry Corks

thanks for all suggestions.
The problem is that good corks are hard to find in my area. Any suggestions
for a good supplier of corks.

Joe

"Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
om...
> It's not the cellar, it's the corks. The top is all that is exposed
> to air, it's not a lot of surface area. Most cellars atre dryer in
> the winter than summer, it's not a big deal. Good corks should be soft
> enough to squeeze between your fingers.
> Regards,
> Joe
>
>
> > I was surprised to find some of the corks broke in half during removal.
> > At first I thought it was probably that they were bad corks but now I am
> > wondering if my wine cellar is too dry. Would the corks breaking in

half
> > be a symptom of this?
> >
> > Has anyone else experienced these type of problems with corks?
> >
> > Joe





  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Denis Marier
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dry Corks

Corks are on their way out. When buying corks I always ask for a sample.
Then I cut it in two halves and sand the faces to look at the quality of the
corks. Acceptable corks are the one made with particles and then bonded
together with a food safe cementing agent. Now in 2004 the quality of pure
corks is too low and may impair the taste of your wine. I have been giving
some # 9 synthetic corks for testing? I will slowly move to aluminum screw
caps. Now I am on the look out for screw top bottles and for the
standardized caps.

"Joe Ae" > wrote in message
.. .
> thanks for all suggestions.
> The problem is that good corks are hard to find in my area. Any

suggestions
> for a good supplier of corks.
>
> Joe
>
> "Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
> om...
> > It's not the cellar, it's the corks. The top is all that is exposed
> > to air, it's not a lot of surface area. Most cellars atre dryer in
> > the winter than summer, it's not a big deal. Good corks should be soft
> > enough to squeeze between your fingers.
> > Regards,
> > Joe
> >
> >
> > > I was surprised to find some of the corks broke in half during

removal.
> > > At first I thought it was probably that they were bad corks but now I

am
> > > wondering if my wine cellar is too dry. Would the corks breaking in

> half
> > > be a symptom of this?
> > >
> > > Has anyone else experienced these type of problems with corks?
> > >
> > > Joe

>
>



  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Joe Ae
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dry Corks

Denis

I'll follow your advice and examine the next bunch of corks I buy.

I have bought some Italian wines (MASI) with synthetic corks but I haven't
seen them for sale. Also the commercial wines have nice long smooth corks
again I haven't found any like that at the winemaking shops.
Are home winemakers destined to sort through corks that have been rejected
by the wineries?

Joe


"Denis Marier" > wrote in message
...
> Corks are on their way out. When buying corks I always ask for a sample.
> Then I cut it in two halves and sand the faces to look at the quality of

the
> corks. Acceptable corks are the one made with particles and then bonded
> together with a food safe cementing agent. Now in 2004 the quality of

pure
> corks is too low and may impair the taste of your wine. I have been

giving
> some # 9 synthetic corks for testing? I will slowly move to aluminum

screw
> caps. Now I am on the look out for screw top bottles and for the
> standardized caps.
>
> "Joe Ae" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > thanks for all suggestions.
> > The problem is that good corks are hard to find in my area. Any

> suggestions
> > for a good supplier of corks.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > "Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > It's not the cellar, it's the corks. The top is all that is exposed
> > > to air, it's not a lot of surface area. Most cellars atre dryer in
> > > the winter than summer, it's not a big deal. Good corks should be soft
> > > enough to squeeze between your fingers.
> > > Regards,
> > > Joe
> > >
> > >
> > > > I was surprised to find some of the corks broke in half during

> removal.
> > > > At first I thought it was probably that they were bad corks but now

I
> am
> > > > wondering if my wine cellar is too dry. Would the corks breaking

in
> > half
> > > > be a symptom of this?
> > > >
> > > > Has anyone else experienced these type of problems with corks?
> > > >
> > > > Joe

> >
> >

>
>



  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Larry Meeusen
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dry Corks

>


>>

Denis is right on. corks are on the way out and yes, we home wine makers
have always been subjected to the corks commericial wineries don't want.
And the many of the commericial guys are all considering changing to
screw caps becasue the quality of their corks is not good either,
resulting is too many tainted bottles of wine. Investing in several
cases of screw cap bottles in the long run is economic as you will use
them over and over.
Larry


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Charles H
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dry Corks

Joe Ae wrote:


> Are home winemakers destined to sort through corks that have been rejected
> by the wineries?


Colmated corks are considered to be the wine business' revenge against
home winemakers, as silly as it sounds.

I found a decent supply of agglomerated corks at a local grocery store
of all places, and I snatched them up. Agglomerated are the best
comprimise for myself.

--
charles

"Once ... in the wilds of Afghanistan, I lost my corkscrew, and we were
forced to live on nothing but food and water for days."
- W.C. Fields
  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Tom S
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dry Corks


"Joe Ae" > wrote in message
.. .
> I have bought some Italian wines (MASI) with synthetic corks but I haven't
> seen them for sale. Also the commercial wines have nice long smooth corks
> again I haven't found any like that at the winemaking shops.
> Are home winemakers destined to sort through corks that have been rejected
> by the wineries?


Not really, but it may seem that way. Actually, your money spends just as
well as the Big Boys', and a well stocked homebrew shop will carry a range
of corks from the el-cheapos you got to the so called "extra firsts".

It may be of some comfort to you that cork taint is a much more serious
problem for commercial wineries than it is for you. If you open a bottle of
your wine and find it tainted you dump it down the sink and reach for
another bottle. A customer who purchases a tainted bottle from a wine shop
will reach for another _brand_ next time.

There are super-premium natural corks on the market for as much as 50¢
apiece (US), but even spending that much is no guarantee of freedom from
cork taint problems. That's why many wineries are switching to synthetics
and screwcaps - even for their top of the line wines. It makes sense,
really. How likely is it that a chunk of tree bark jammed into its neck
represents the _optimum_ closure for a bottle?

Tom S




  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Denis Marier
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dry Corks

Over here in the Maritimes for the lack of a better thing I try to get
colmated long # 9 for the cork size. The long one sells for about $4.99 CAD
for a bag of 30 and the short $3.99.

"Joe Ae" > wrote in message
.. .
> Denis
>
> I'll follow your advice and examine the next bunch of corks I buy.
>
> I have bought some Italian wines (MASI) with synthetic corks but I haven't
> seen them for sale. Also the commercial wines have nice long smooth corks
> again I haven't found any like that at the winemaking shops.
> Are home winemakers destined to sort through corks that have been rejected
> by the wineries?
>
> Joe
>
>
> "Denis Marier" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Corks are on their way out. When buying corks I always ask for a

sample.
> > Then I cut it in two halves and sand the faces to look at the quality of

> the
> > corks. Acceptable corks are the one made with particles and then bonded
> > together with a food safe cementing agent. Now in 2004 the quality of

> pure
> > corks is too low and may impair the taste of your wine. I have been

> giving
> > some # 9 synthetic corks for testing? I will slowly move to aluminum

> screw
> > caps. Now I am on the look out for screw top bottles and for the
> > standardized caps.
> >
> > "Joe Ae" > wrote in message
> > .. .
> > > thanks for all suggestions.
> > > The problem is that good corks are hard to find in my area. Any

> > suggestions
> > > for a good supplier of corks.
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > > "Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
> > > om...
> > > > It's not the cellar, it's the corks. The top is all that is exposed
> > > > to air, it's not a lot of surface area. Most cellars atre dryer in
> > > > the winter than summer, it's not a big deal. Good corks should be

soft
> > > > enough to squeeze between your fingers.
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Joe
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I was surprised to find some of the corks broke in half during

> > removal.
> > > > > At first I thought it was probably that they were bad corks but

now
> I
> > am
> > > > > wondering if my wine cellar is too dry. Would the corks breaking

> in
> > > half
> > > > > be a symptom of this?
> > > > >
> > > > > Has anyone else experienced these type of problems with corks?
> > > > >
> > > > > Joe
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

>
>



  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Joe Ae
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dry Corks

I had never heard of colmated corks before, thanks Charles and Denis!

One company that sells these describes them as "A film of colmating material
that covers the entire surface of the cork. It effectively seals the corks
and covers all imperfections.. non-chlorinated cork dust is added".

The last bunch of corks I bought sure had a lot of imperfections so the
above hits home.

I have always used natural corks because I always wondered what happens to
the glue in agglomerated corks and now similarly "a colmating material" in
colmated corks with long term contact with wine.
I have seen posts that say there is no issue with short term storage and as
long as you don't soak the corks in sulfite solution before use.




"Denis Marier" > wrote in message
...
> Over here in the Maritimes for the lack of a better thing I try to get
> colmated long # 9 for the cork size. The long one sells for about $4.99

CAD
> for a bag of 30 and the short $3.99.
>
> "Joe Ae" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > Denis
> >
> > I'll follow your advice and examine the next bunch of corks I buy.
> >
> > I have bought some Italian wines (MASI) with synthetic corks but I

haven't
> > seen them for sale. Also the commercial wines have nice long smooth

corks
> > again I haven't found any like that at the winemaking shops.
> > Are home winemakers destined to sort through corks that have been

rejected
> > by the wineries?
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >
> > "Denis Marier" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Corks are on their way out. When buying corks I always ask for a

> sample.
> > > Then I cut it in two halves and sand the faces to look at the quality

of
> > the
> > > corks. Acceptable corks are the one made with particles and then

bonded
> > > together with a food safe cementing agent. Now in 2004 the quality of

> > pure
> > > corks is too low and may impair the taste of your wine. I have been

> > giving
> > > some # 9 synthetic corks for testing? I will slowly move to aluminum

> > screw
> > > caps. Now I am on the look out for screw top bottles and for the
> > > standardized caps.
> > >
> > > "Joe Ae" > wrote in message
> > > .. .
> > > > thanks for all suggestions.
> > > > The problem is that good corks are hard to find in my area. Any
> > > suggestions
> > > > for a good supplier of corks.
> > > >
> > > > Joe
> > > >
> > > > "Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
> > > > om...
> > > > > It's not the cellar, it's the corks. The top is all that is

exposed
> > > > > to air, it's not a lot of surface area. Most cellars atre dryer

in
> > > > > the winter than summer, it's not a big deal. Good corks should be

> soft
> > > > > enough to squeeze between your fingers.
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Joe
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I was surprised to find some of the corks broke in half during
> > > removal.
> > > > > > At first I thought it was probably that they were bad corks but

> now
> > I
> > > am
> > > > > > wondering if my wine cellar is too dry. Would the corks

breaking
> > in
> > > > half
> > > > > > be a symptom of this?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Has anyone else experienced these type of problems with corks?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joe
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

>
>



  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
William Frazier
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dry Corks


"Tom S" > wrote > There are super-premium natural
corks on the market for as much as 50¢
> apiece (US), but even spending that much is no guarantee of freedom from
> cork taint problems. That's why many wineries are switching to synthetics
> and screwcaps - even for their top of the line wines. It makes sense,
> really. How likely is it that a chunk of tree bark jammed into its neck
> represents the _optimum_ closure for a bottle?


Tom - What corks or closures do you use?

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas


  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Tom S
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dry Corks


"William Frazier" > wrote in message
...
> Tom - What corks or closures do you use?


For a number of years I used natural corks from a bag of 8000 that I bought
for 4¢ apiece. (They originally were sold to Paul Masson.) I used
thousands of them, and only had one obviously corked bottle that I know of.
I always rinsed them in several changes of warm water, until the water ran
clear, just before using them.

Unfortunately, they aren't an option for my commercial operation for a
couple of reasons, so I switched to the latest version of Supremecorqs. So
far, they seem pretty satisfactory. They're not as hard as the original
version, which I heard were impossible to re-insert in the bottle. They are
also about as corkscrew-friendly as natural cork. I had a lot of problems
with some of the synthetic corqs with my lever Screwpull, but the new ones
seem OK. They (Supremecorq) also say they've addressed the SO2 scalping
problem that some of the synthos have. Time will tell...

Oh yeah, they're about 11¢ each. Decent quality natural cork is about
double that.

Tom S


  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Brian Lundeen
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dry Corks


"Tom S" > wrote in message
. com...
>
> seem OK. They (Supremecorq) also say they've addressed the SO2 scalping
> problem that some of the synthos have. Time will tell...
>

Did they say how they have addressed that? Did this relate to their revised
formulation, or more to do with procedural considerations?

Brian




  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Tom S
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dry Corks


"Brian Lundeen" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tom S" > wrote in message
> . com...
> >
> > seem OK. They (Supremecorq) also say they've addressed the SO2 scalping
> > problem that some of the synthos have. Time will tell...
> >

> Did they say how they have addressed that? Did this relate to their

revised
> formulation, or more to do with procedural considerations?


The info I got from them indicates that they've gone to a lower density
elastomer. I cut one open and it appears to be a closed cell foam with very
small cells. It has sponginess roughly equivalent to cork, although I can
tell by lifting a bag of 1000 that it has a higher bulk density than cork.
They are easily removable from a corkscrew and are not difficult to reinsert
in a bottle by hand. Those were two of the issues I had with the earlier
version.

Tom S


  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Joe Sallustio
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dry Corks

Hi Joe,
I have not given up on naturals yet. I don't know what quantities you
buy in but APM's best are now back to around 20 cents each in
quantities of 1000, I always liked those and never had issues. We
used them up over a few years and never had issues. I have had others
that were gawd awful though.

Right now I am testing Guardian and NomaCork, both are synthetics and
both seem fine. I'm happy to hear Supremecorq made some changes, I
did not like them originally for exactly what Tom discussed.

There are several suppliers of small quantities on the internet,
piwines.com and grapeandgranary.com have both been decent to deal with
in my experience. I'm sure there are others you might like also.
Most sell all kinds, natural and synthetic.

Hope that helps.
Regards,
Joe

"Joe Ae" > wrote in message > ...
> I had never heard of colmated corks before, thanks Charles and Denis!
>
> One company that sells these describes them as "A film of colmating material
> that covers the entire surface of the cork. It effectively seals the corks
> and covers all imperfections.. non-chlorinated cork dust is added".
>
> The last bunch of corks I bought sure had a lot of imperfections so the
> above hits home.
>
> I have always used natural corks because I always wondered what happens to
> the glue in agglomerated corks and now similarly "a colmating material" in
> colmated corks with long term contact with wine.
> I have seen posts that say there is no issue with short term storage and as
> long as you don't soak the corks in sulfite solution before use.
>
>
>
>
> "Denis Marier" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Over here in the Maritimes for the lack of a better thing I try to get
> > colmated long # 9 for the cork size. The long one sells for about $4.99

> CAD
> > for a bag of 30 and the short $3.99.
> >
> > "Joe Ae" > wrote in message
> > .. .
> > > Denis
> > >
> > > I'll follow your advice and examine the next bunch of corks I buy.
> > >
> > > I have bought some Italian wines (MASI) with synthetic corks but I

> haven't
> > > seen them for sale. Also the commercial wines have nice long smooth

> corks
> > > again I haven't found any like that at the winemaking shops.
> > > Are home winemakers destined to sort through corks that have been

> rejected
> > > by the wineries?
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > >
> > > "Denis Marier" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Corks are on their way out. When buying corks I always ask for a

> sample.
> > > > Then I cut it in two halves and sand the faces to look at the quality

> of
> the
> > > > corks. Acceptable corks are the one made with particles and then

> bonded
> > > > together with a food safe cementing agent. Now in 2004 the quality of

> pure
> > > > corks is too low and may impair the taste of your wine. I have been

> giving
> > > > some # 9 synthetic corks for testing? I will slowly move to aluminum

> screw
> > > > caps. Now I am on the look out for screw top bottles and for the
> > > > standardized caps.
> > > >
> > > > "Joe Ae" > wrote in message
> > > > .. .
> > > > > thanks for all suggestions.
> > > > > The problem is that good corks are hard to find in my area. Any

> suggestions
> > > > > for a good supplier of corks.
> > > > >
> > > > > Joe
> > > > >
> > > > > "Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
> > > > > om...
> > > > > > It's not the cellar, it's the corks. The top is all that is

> exposed
> > > > > > to air, it's not a lot of surface area. Most cellars atre dryer

> in
> > > > > > the winter than summer, it's not a big deal. Good corks should be

> soft
> > > > > > enough to squeeze between your fingers.
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Joe
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I was surprised to find some of the corks broke in half during

> removal.
> > > > > > > At first I thought it was probably that they were bad corks but

> now
> I
> am
> > > > > > > wondering if my wine cellar is too dry. Would the corks

> breaking
> in
> half
> > > > > > > be a symptom of this?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Has anyone else experienced these type of problems with corks?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Joe
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
Brian Lundeen
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dry Corks


"Tom S" > wrote in message
. com...
>
> "Brian Lundeen" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Tom S" > wrote in message
> > . com...
> > >
> > > seem OK. They (Supremecorq) also say they've addressed the SO2

scalping
> > > problem that some of the synthos have. Time will tell...
> > >

> > Did they say how they have addressed that? Did this relate to their

> revised
> > formulation, or more to do with procedural considerations?

>
> The info I got from them indicates that they've gone to a lower density
> elastomer. I cut one open and it appears to be a closed cell foam with

very
> small cells. It has sponginess roughly equivalent to cork, although I can
> tell by lifting a bag of 1000 that it has a higher bulk density than cork.
> They are easily removable from a corkscrew and are not difficult to

reinsert
> in a bottle by hand. Those were two of the issues I had with the earlier
> version.
>

But what more can you tell me about how they've addressed the SO2 issue?

Brian


  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
Tom S
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dry Corks


"Brian Lundeen" > wrote in message
...
> But what more can you tell me about how they've addressed the SO2 issue?


It'd be better if you got that from the horse's mouth, so to speak. I have
the Napa Valley rep's name at work somewhere. I'm sure he could fill you in
on this topic. Remind me by e-mail and I'll get his number for you.

Tom S


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2 large sacks of bottle corks-Ebay-$25 per sack- 1000's of corks ! [email protected] Winemaking 4 10-03-2006 09:32 PM
2 large sacks of bottle corks-Ebay-$25 per sack- 1000's of corks ! [email protected] Beer 1 10-03-2006 09:30 PM
2 large sacks of bottle corks-Ebay-$25 per sack- 1000's of corks ! [email protected] Wine 0 10-03-2006 11:52 AM
Corks, corks, corks ... Nils Gustaf Lindgren Wine 0 13-08-2004 02:29 PM
Corks, once more ... Nils Gustaf Lindgren Wine 26 10-08-2004 04:53 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:55 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 FoodBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Food and drink"