Alum Utensils
 

Will aluminum effect the wine if used in stirring? I wouldn't think so, but
not completely sure.

Alum Utensils
 

In article >, "Dan Swinton" > wrote:
>Will aluminum effect the wine if used in stirring? I wouldn't think so, but
>not completely sure.
>
Why take the chance? Use plastic or stainless steel.

--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?

Alum Utensils
 

There is no reason to if you have the plastic or wood like the other poster
said but I know in brewing it is a constant debate and after 50 replies
there are usually 50 theories and no definitive answer. Simply stirring a
wine I don't see how but it is true that if you just use a plastic stirrer
it avoids the whole issue. If you don't have a plastic stirrer, just use
the alum one which I have done when I first started and realized half way
through I hadn't anything to stir with. It didn't turn purple or poison me
so I would say it's better than not stirring at all.
Jason

"Dan Swinton" > wrote in message
...
> Will aluminum effect the wine if used in stirring? I wouldn't think so,
but
> not completely sure.
>
>

Alum Utensils
 

Wine is acidic and you should avoid aluminum in an acidic environment.
That said, stirring is not a lot of contact time. I would not use
it, but that's me.
Joe

"Dan Swinton" > wrote in message >.. .
> Will aluminum effect the wine if used in stirring? I wouldn't think so, but
> not completely sure.

Alum Utensils
 

"Dan Swinton" > wrote in message
...
> Will aluminum effect the wine if used in stirring? I wouldn't think so,
but
> not completely sure.

I doubt that you'd be able to measure or taste the influence of an aluminum
stirrer in your wine. Aluminum forms a passive layer very quickly when
exposed to air. That prevents it from corroding unless there is a lot of
ambient chloride ion present. Wine is very low in chloride, so I wouldn't
expect it to be a problem.

Commercial wineries ship bulk wine and juice in aluminum tanker trucks all
the time. It doesn't seem to be an issue for them - at least not for such
short term contact.

Tom S

Alum Utensils
 

I'm very tiered of the aluminium debate. It is not a porblem.
I am much more concerned about the copper content of some aluminums alloys.
As we all know copper is much more of a danger to wine.
Hope this helps,
Eddie V.
"Tom S" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "Dan Swinton" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Will aluminum effect the wine if used in stirring? I wouldn't think so,
> but
> > not completely sure.
>
> I doubt that you'd be able to measure or taste the influence of an
aluminum
> stirrer in your wine. Aluminum forms a passive layer very quickly when
> exposed to air. That prevents it from corroding unless there is a lot of
> ambient chloride ion present. Wine is very low in chloride, so I wouldn't
> expect it to be a problem.
>
> Commercial wineries ship bulk wine and juice in aluminum tanker trucks all
> the time. It doesn't seem to be an issue for them - at least not for such
> short term contact.
>
> Tom S
>
>

Alum Utensils
 

"Sabia Vanderzeeuw" > wrote in message
. ..
> I'm very tiered of the aluminium debate. It is not a porblem.
> I am much more concerned about the copper content of some aluminums
alloys.
> As we all know copper is much more of a danger to wine.
> Hope this helps,
> Eddie V.

Eddie,
I am ignorant about the danger of a little copper in wine. Please enlighten
me.
Regards,
lum

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just to let you know:
on ebay, someone is selling either some seperate stainless steel cooking
pots..
or some cooking pots by the set of 4 (8 quart/2 gallons, 12, 16 quart, and
20 quart/5 gallon.)
This wo8uld be good for home brewing, wine stirring, or even, as I've been
thinking about, cheese making!!!
here's the link:
I have nothing invested in selling these...so please dont see this as spam
or anything else....they just interest me personally, that's all.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=38 172
, or:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=46 276

I will be bidding on one of these "auctions" very soon...
hope you find this interesting as well.
Rick
Fremont, MI

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Hi Lum,
As you know very well, copper can be a source of haze if the content gets to
high.
Many aluminium alloys contain copper. The aluminums covers it's self very
quickly with a oxide layer but the copper in the crystal latish is not often
oxidized (the reason for using the copper in aircraft alloys). This may
allow the copper ion to go into solution in wine. This may increase the
copper content of the wine.
I know this maybe a little far fetched, but many aluminium alloys used in
pots have 25 to 30 % copper in the alloy. Die cast aluminums alloys are
mostly of the 6000 or 6300 series of alloys containing 5 to 30% copper. In
other words, many aluminums utensils contain significant quantities of
copper. This could add to the very small amount of copper in the must.
The point is that the aluminum addition to wine is minimal but the addition
of copper may be more significant.
Containing the wine in a vessel made of 2/3 aluminums and 1/3 copper or
using utensils of this alloy does not increase the aluminums content; but
does it increase the copper content significantly?
This is the basis of my comment/question,
Have a good day,
Eddie V.

"Lum" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Sabia Vanderzeeuw" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > I'm very tiered of the aluminium debate. It is not a porblem.
> > I am much more concerned about the copper content of some aluminums
> alloys.
> > As we all know copper is much more of a danger to wine.
> > Hope this helps,
> > Eddie V.
>
> Eddie,
> I am ignorant about the danger of a little copper in wine. Please
enlighten
> me.
> Regards,
> lum
>
>
>

Alum Utensils
 

"Sabia Vanderzeeuw" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Lum,
> As you know very well, copper can be a source of haze if the content gets
to
> high.
> Many aluminium alloys contain copper. The aluminums covers it's self very
> quickly with a oxide layer but the copper in the crystal latish is not
often
> oxidized (the reason for using the copper in aircraft alloys). This may
> allow the copper ion to go into solution in wine. This may increase the
> copper content of the wine.
> I know this maybe a little far fetched, but many aluminium alloys used in
> pots have 25 to 30 % copper in the alloy. Die cast aluminums alloys are
> mostly of the 6000 or 6300 series of alloys containing 5 to 30% copper. In
> other words, many aluminums utensils contain significant quantities of
> copper. This could add to the very small amount of copper in the must.
> The point is that the aluminum addition to wine is minimal but the
addition
> of copper may be more significant.
> Containing the wine in a vessel made of 2/3 aluminums and 1/3 copper or
> using utensils of this alloy does not increase the aluminums content; but
> does it increase the copper content significantly?
> This is the basis of my comment/question,
> Have a good day,
> Eddie V.

Yes indeed, more than 1 ppm or so of copper can cause serious haze problems.
But, I had no idea such levels could occur from a short contact with
aluminum. Thanks for the info Eddie.
lum

Alum Utensils
 

Here's a "first-timer's gee, I didn't know" story - I did this before I ever
read a wine-making book or checked out the wine sites. My first 1 gallon
batch of rhubarb wine was fermentated in an aluminum cooking pot, which I
generally used to make homemade pickles in. I will never do THAT again, and
here's why. After racking the wine to a glass secondary, I noticed the pot
was extra clean and shiny where the wine had been fermenting. I don't know
what came off the pot and ended up in my wine, but it always bothered me, so
I never used that particular pot again in winemaking and I will not use
anything aluminum. Having said that, the wine seemed to be fine for a first
batch, not cloudy or such, and no vinegar aftertaste. I have one bottle
left from that first batch still aging in my basement.
Darlene

"Dan Swinton" > wrote in message
...
> Will aluminum effect the wine if used in stirring? I wouldn't think so,
but
> not completely sure.
>
>

Alum Utensils
 

Dar,
Umm, don't use it for pickles either, you usually start with a vinegar
at 5%. We mmake them in stainless, next year i'm going to try
fermented ones with a brine solution in a crock...
regards,
Joe

"Dar V" > wrote in message >...
> Here's a "first-timer's gee, I didn't know" story - I did this before I ever
> read a wine-making book or checked out the wine sites. My first 1 gallon
> batch of rhubarb wine was fermentated in an aluminum cooking pot, which I
> generally used to make homemade pickles in. I will never do THAT again, and
> here's why. After racking the wine to a glass secondary, I noticed the pot
> was extra clean and shiny where the wine had been fermenting. I don't know
> what came off the pot and ended up in my wine, but it always bothered me, so
> I never used that particular pot again in winemaking and I will not use
> anything aluminum. Having said that, the wine seemed to be fine for a first
> batch, not cloudy or such, and no vinegar aftertaste. I have one bottle
> left from that first batch still aging in my basement.
> Darlene
>
> "Dan Swinton" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Will aluminum effect the wine if used in stirring? I wouldn't think so,
> but
> > not completely sure.
> >
> >

Alum Utensils
 

"Dar V" > wrote in message >...

---snip
>I noticed the pot was extra clean and shiny where the wine had been
>fermenting. I don't know what came off the pot and ended up in my
wine, but >it always bothered me,

Teflon was developed to cover aluminum cooking pots etc, but even this
comes off. Dispose of any aluminum in your kitchen/winery, unless you
favor this disease ... Altz ...something which seem to favor
individuals with high aluminum in their brains. After you do your
cooking with cast iron or SS the only chance to get that ALU doze
would be in any restaurants where it is still leagal, and everyone use
aluminum. Just do further investigations into that rabbit hole if you
like.

Fermented shine, ... what was you thinking.

SG Brix

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sgbrix wrote:

> "Dar V" > wrote in message >...
>
> ---snip
>
>>I noticed the pot was extra clean and shiny where the wine had been
>>fermenting. I don't know what came off the pot and ended up in my
>
> wine, but >it always bothered me,
>
> Teflon was developed to cover aluminum cooking pots etc, but even this
> comes off. Dispose of any aluminum in your kitchen/winery, unless you
> favor this disease ... Altz ...something which seem to favor
> individuals with high aluminum in their brains. After you do your
> cooking with cast iron or SS the only chance to get that ALU doze
> would be in any restaurants where it is still leagal, and everyone use
> aluminum. Just do further investigations into that rabbit hole if you
> like.
>
> Fermented shine, ... what was you thinking.
>
> SG Brix
I seem to remember that the connection between alsheimers and aluminium
has be disproved, but I still would not make wine in aluminium (or
copper). The only metal I would use is stainless steel. I might use
aluminium for a very short time ( a couple of hours at most).

Alum Utensils
 

"sgbrix" > wrote in message
om...
> Teflon was developed to cover aluminum cooking pots etc, but even this
> comes off. Dispose of any aluminum in your kitchen/winery, unless you
> favor this disease ... Altz ...something which seem to favor
> individuals with high aluminum in their brains.

That's been somewhat debunked in recent years, although the results aren't
totally conclusive:
http://www.niehs.nih.gov/external/faq/alum.htm

Tom S

Alum Utensils
 

"Tom S" > wrote in message >...
> "sgbrix" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Teflon was developed to cover aluminum cooking pots etc, but even this
> > comes off. Dispose of any aluminum in your kitchen/winery, unless you
> > favor this disease ... Altz ...something which seem to favor
> > individuals with high aluminum in their brains.
>
> That's been somewhat debunked in recent years, although the results aren't
> totally conclusive:
> http://www.niehs.nih.gov/external/faq/alum.htm
>
> Tom S

If not convinced then try this; http://www.bio.unipd.it/~zatta/metals/DOCUMEN2.HTM

NIEHS is a bit political, no?

SG Brix

Alum Utensils
 

"sgbrix" > wrote in message
om...
> "Tom S" > wrote in message
>...
> > "sgbrix" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > Teflon was developed to cover aluminum cooking pots etc, but even this
> > > comes off. Dispose of any aluminum in your kitchen/winery, unless you
> > > favor this disease ... Altz ...something which seem to favor
> > > individuals with high aluminum in their brains.
> >
> > That's been somewhat debunked in recent years, although the results
aren't
> > totally conclusive:
> > http://www.niehs.nih.gov/external/faq/alum.htm
> >
> > Tom S
>
> If not convinced then try this;
http://www.bio.unipd.it/~zatta/metals/DOCUMEN2.HTM

OK, I'm _still_ convinced; this is a controversial topic and the scientific
results aren't conclusive. At least that's the gist of _your_ reference.
IOW, pretty much the same as mine.

It's pretty much a non issue AFAIC. I cook in stainless.

Tom S