Hi all, I've been reading along with facination the recent threads on
this board and others about making port. I would really like to try to
make some, but only have a vague idea how to do it. There doesn't
seam to be a lot to it, but a few people make it sound like it is
quite difficult. I would like to make it the traditional style, using
160 proof brandy (I've found a source).
Is there any links or sources on the web available? There is SOOO
much available on making wine, but I haven't found anything on making
port.
Thanks for any help

>Hi all, I've been reading along with facination the recent threads on
>this board and others about making port. I would really like to try to
>make some, but only have a vague idea how to do it. There doesn't
>seam to be a lot to it, but a few people make it sound like it is
>quite difficult. I would like to make it the traditional style, using
>160 proof brandy (I've found a source).
>Is there any links or sources on the web available? There is SOOO
>much available on making wine, but I haven't found anything on making
>port.
>Thanks for any help


It is fairly simple: when fermentation is at desired sugar level
(acutally, start when slightly sweeter (1-2 brix) as there will be
some drift after the fortification), add enough alcohol to bring the
total alc concentration to 17-19%. Press, then age (in old oak if
possible). For a tawny, 5-10 years with an annual racking. For a
ruby, 1-2 years with no racking.

The main difficulty comes from estimating the volume of must, which I
do by weight.

The calculation for the fortification is fairly straight forward if
you are familiar with Peason's Square. I find the calculator on the
following website to be rather useful:

http://users.stargate.net/~mshapiro/convert.html

clyde

StarrFarms1 wrote:

> I would like to make it the traditional style, using
> 160 proof brandy (I've found a source).

Just out of sheer curiousity, would you mind sharing your source?

When I try making a traditional port next year, I will probably use the
canadian version of everclear.

--
charles

"Once ... in the wilds of Afghanistan, I lost my corkscrew, and we were
forced to live on nothing but food and water for days."
- W.C. Fields

Clyde Gill > wrote in message >. ..
> >Hi all, I've been reading along with facination the recent threads on
> >this board and others about making port. I would really like to try to
> >make some, but only have a vague idea how to do it. There doesn't
> >seam to be a lot to it, but a few people make it sound like it is
> >quite difficult. I would like to make it the traditional style, using
> >160 proof brandy (I've found a source).
> >Is there any links or sources on the web available? There is SOOO
> >much available on making wine, but I haven't found anything on making
> >port.
> >Thanks for any help
>

You can find some complete instructions in the Winemaker magazine dec
2002 or the very good book of Daniel Pambianchi "Techniques in Home
Winemaking" the revised and expanded edition.

Good luck
Séb

Pretty please could you let me in on your source the high proof brandy - The
frozen california Zin I ordered looks to have ended up with a Brix of around
30, so it's likely I'll make port with it. I'd much rather use brandy than
everclear.

Thanks!
Alastair

On 11/5/03 1:37 PM, in article
, "StarrFarms1"
> wrote:

> Hi all, I've been reading along with facination the recent threads on
> this board and others about making port. I would really like to try to
> make some, but only have a vague idea how to do it. There doesn't
> seam to be a lot to it, but a few people make it sound like it is
> quite difficult. I would like to make it the traditional style, using
> 160 proof brandy (I've found a source).
> Is there any links or sources on the web available? There is SOOO
> much available on making wine, but I haven't found anything on making
> port.
> Thanks for any help

The guy that is making the brandy is just starting out his business.
He said it won't be available for sale until around Christmas. I
emailed him for permission to give out his email early. When I hear
back from him tomarrow, I'll let the group know.
Thanks for the help making a port everyone!
Are there any links on the web for making this stuff? It seems like
an elusive topic...

I have another querry. Does it take everyone 3-9 hrs for their post
to appear on the board?

Thad


Alastair Thomson > wrote in message > ...
> Pretty please could you let me in on your source the high proof brandy - The
> frozen california Zin I ordered looks to have ended up with a Brix of around
> 30, so it's likely I'll make port with it. I'd much rather use brandy than
> everclear.
>
>

Here are links for some info on port wine making.
http://www.ivp.pt/uk/Enologia/enologia1.shtm
http://www.roadkill.com/~davet/portWineFAQ.html
http://www.rozes.pt/UK/portwine/how_port_is_made.htm

And links to sites from major contributors to this page!

http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman/ Chapter 21: Fruit Wine has a step by
step recipe for making a Berry Port

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/ Jack has several recipes for port
or port style wines.

http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/ Lots of good info here too!

Good Luck, have fun!

"StarrFarms1" > wrote in message
om...
> The guy that is making the brandy is just starting out his business.
> He said it won't be available for sale until around Christmas. I
> emailed him for permission to give out his email early. When I hear
> back from him tomarrow, I'll let the group know.
> Thanks for the help making a port everyone!
> Are there any links on the web for making this stuff? It seems like
> an elusive topic...
>
> I have another querry. Does it take everyone 3-9 hrs for their post
> to appear on the board?
>
> Thad
>
>
> Alastair Thomson > wrote in message
> ...
> > Pretty please could you let me in on your source the high proof brandy -
The
> > frozen california Zin I ordered looks to have ended up with a Brix of
around
> > 30, so it's likely I'll make port with it. I'd much rather use brandy
than
> > everclear.
> >
> >

On 11/5/03 9:53 PM, in article 3fa9c5d5$0$25370$afc38c87@, "Jack Schmidling"
> wrote:

>
> "Alastair Thomson"
>
>> Pretty please could you let me in on your source the high proof brandy -
> The
>> frozen california Zin I ordered looks to have ended up with a Brix of
> around
>> 30, so it's likely I'll make port with it. I'd much rather use brandy than
>> everclear.
>
> What is wrong with any old cheap brandy like Christian Brothers?
>

Ideally, for port fortification, you want High Proof brandy in order to
minimize the dilution of your port. That is, 160 proof (80% alcohol) or
higher is best. Standard brandy, like Christian brothers, is only 80 proof
(40% alcohol), so in order to fortify your wine up to 17-19% alcohol, you
are adding almost up to 50% brandy and it gets diluted.

If you can't find high proof brandy, look for everclear in your area (95%
alcohol).

--
Greg Cook
http://homepage.mac.com/gregcook/Wine

(remove spamblocker from my email)

StarrFarms1 wrote:

> I have another querry. Does it take everyone 3-9 hrs for their post
> to appear on the board?

That's standard for usenet... takes a while for the messages to
propegate to each server.

--
charles

"Once ... in the wilds of Afghanistan, I lost my corkscrew, and we were
forced to live on nothing but food and water for days."
- W.C. Fields

>> I have another querry. Does it take everyone 3-9 hrs for their post
>> to appear on the board?
>
>That's standard for usenet... takes a while for the messages to
>propegate to each server.


Not standard here. My post show up almost instantaneously.

The op is using google groups which is www based and the post won't
ever show up for a period of time. It tells you that when you use it.
Usenet works independently.


clyde

Clyde Gill wrote:

>
>
> >> I have another querry. Does it take everyone 3-9 hrs for their post
> >> to appear on the board?
> >
> >That's standard for usenet... takes a while for the messages to
> >propegate to each server.
>
>
> Not standard here. My post show up almost instantaneously.
>
> The op is using google groups which is www based and the post won't
> ever show up for a period of time. It tells you that when you use it.
> Usenet works independently.

Yeah, my posts show up to my own server as soon as I post them, but it
will still take some time, although not 3-9 hrs to propegate to the
other servers. *shrug*

--
charles

"Once ... in the wilds of Afghanistan, I lost my corkscrew, and we were
forced to live on nothing but food and water for days."
- W.C. Fields

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:45:33 -0500, Charles H
> wrote:

>Clyde Gill wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> >> I have another querry. Does it take everyone 3-9 hrs for their post
>> >> to appear on the board?
>> >
>> >That's standard for usenet... takes a while for the messages to
>> >propegate to each server.
>>
>>
>> Not standard here. My post show up almost instantaneously.
>>
>> The op is using google groups which is www based and the post won't
>> ever show up for a period of time. It tells you that when you use it.
>> Usenet works independently.
>
>Yeah, my posts show up to my own server as soon as I post them, but it
>will still take some time, although not 3-9 hrs to propegate to the
>other servers. *shrug*

I use two news servers. One's about 40 miles away, the other is on
the other side of the planet. Post will show up from both pretty much
instantaneously.

Your post I'm replying to shows that it was posted 45 minutes from
now. Now that's fast!! Must've went the opposite way around the
globe!

clyde

Alastair Thomson > wrote in message > ...
> I'd much rather use brandy than everclear.
>
> Thanks!
> Alastair
>
>

I'm curious as to why.

Will something that is distilled to 160 or 190 proof really have any
flavor left that would change the finished wine?

Andy

>> I'd much rather use brandy than everclear.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Alastair
>>
>>
>
>I'm curious as to why.
>
>Will something that is distilled to 160 or 190 proof really have any
>flavor left that would change the finished wine?
>
>Andy


Sure it does. In fact, the flavors/aromas are greatly concentrated.
It's just that grain spirits have the least amount of flavor of all
distillates.

There is great variation in the qualities of unaged brandy depending
on the vintage, ventor, etc. There is also a significant difference
in the aroma/flavor of everclear compared to brandy, regardless of
what the vendor might claim.

BTW, by definition, it's all distilled to 190 proof. Dilution is
required to get back to 160, or 80 or whatever.

With that said, the negative organoleptic impact of everclear is much
less than what's created from the dilution when using lower
concentrations of alc.

clyde

> Here's the contact information fro the brandy!
His name is John Stringer. As usual, I have no association with his
company, just wanted to pass on this information

> >
> >"> >
> >> Pretty please could you let me in on your source the high proof brandy -
> The
> >> frozen california Zin I ordered looks to have ended up with a Brix of
> around
> >> 30, so it's likely I'll make port with it. I'd much rather use brandy than
> >> everclear.
> >
> > What is wrong with any old cheap brandy like Christian Brothers?
> >
>
>
>
>

On 11/6/03 11:55 AM, in article
, "JEP" >
wrote:

> Alastair Thomson > wrote in message
> > ...
>> I'd much rather use brandy than everclear.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Alastair
>>
>>
>
> I'm curious as to why.
>
> Will something that is distilled to 160 or 190 proof really have any
> flavor left that would change the finished wine?
>
> Andy

I think it will not affect flavor in a negative way, but brandy may affect
flavor in a positive way more than everclear, as it does have some.

--
Greg Cook
http://homepage.mac.com/gregcook/Wine

(remove spamblocker from my email)

On 11/6/03 5:50 PM, in article 3faadfb0$0$11199$afc38c87@, "Jack Schmidling"
> wrote:

>
> "Greg Cook"
>
>> Ideally, for port fortification, you want High Proof brandy in order to
>> minimize the dilution of your port.....
>
> Not sure what you base that opinion on but in Portugal, they use low proof
> brandy in Port.
>
> Brandy contributes a great deal of the character to the finished wine and
> the lower the proof, the more of that character is involved.
>
> This also is one of the reasons, Port has to age so long, the new and raw
> brandy has to mature.
>
> If you use a "seasoned" brandy like CB, the Port will be drinkable much
> sooner.

Thanks for the info. I am a novice and am pretty much speaking mainly from
my intuition (which means, I'm talking out of my ass! :-). Anyway, I was
under the impression high proof brandy was commonly used, but I certainly do
not know for a fact. I know, in my feeble attempts at imitating port wine
styles, lower proof brandies diluted the taste of the wine too much for me.

--
Greg Cook
http://homepage.mac.com/gregcook/Wine

(remove spamblocker from my email)

>>
>>> Ideally, for port fortification, you want High Proof brandy in order to
>>> minimize the dilution of your port.....
>>
>> Not sure what you base that opinion on but in Portugal, they use low proof
>> brandy in Port.
>>

I might be talking out of Greg's ass too, but my sources (class from
Christian Butzke of UC Davis), claims that brandy of 77% alc is used
in Portugal. Not exactly "low proof" at 154 proof!

Two of the three online documents that Milt posted state the same.

Here in the states many producers use 190 proof unaged brandy, cause
that level is most readily available.

clyde

>
> Not standard here. My post show up almost instantaneously.
>

Clyde,
Your posts are probably showing instantaneously on your
server which posts them to the newsgroup locally and starts
the process of updating other servers. It may be that your
post might not show up in Australia for sometime. Unless of
course you post to your server and see it instantaneously
on other usenet servers. That would mean your server is
updating others on a frequent basis.

Of course, Google groups is notorious in taking a long time
to show posts. Considering the gigs of data posted to usenet
every day this is somewhat understandable. It's all in how
much cpu time, disk space and network bandwidth they or
anyone devotes to usenet.

Don

On 11/6/03 10:11 PM, in article 3fab1ba9$0$10715$afc38c87@, "Jack
Schmidling" > wrote:

> In Portugal they use about 1 qt of brandy per gallon of wine to be
> fortified. I leave it as homework to determine the approximate proof of
> brandy.

Well, If Pearson's square is telling me right, 4 parts of wine at about 7-8%
(I'm guessing on the fly this would be the alcohol level when brandy would
be added) mixed with 1 part brandy to reach an alcohol level of 19% or so
would require the brandy be about 70% (140 proof). Hardly low proof like
Christian Brothers.

Clyde Gill > wrote in message >. ..
> It is fairly simple: when fermentation is at desired sugar level
> (acutally, start when slightly sweeter (1-2 brix) as there will be
> some drift after the fortification), add enough alcohol to bring the
> total alc concentration to 17-19%. Press, then age (in old oak if
> possible).

> The main difficulty comes from estimating the volume of must, which I
> do by weight.

We find it easier to fortify after pressing. If you start with high
brix must and ferment slightly cooler you can get good skin contact
time and color before reaching your desired sweetness level. If you
reach this level before you'd like, move fermenter to a garage or
other cold area to arrest fermentation until you're ready to press.
Then fortify as usual.

Clyde Gill > wrote in message >. ..

>> Sure it does. In fact, the flavors/aromas are greatly concentrated.
> It's just that grain spirits have the least amount of flavor of all
> distillates.

I'll give you that grain spirits have the least amount of flavor, but
the distillates from fruit sources that I have tried do not have a
huge concentration of flavor. They may have an underlying flavor of
the original fruit, but I wouldn't say the are overpowering. This
excludes those that have been "doctored" post distillation either
through addition of flavors or just through aging in barrels.

>
> There is great variation in the qualities of unaged brandy depending
> on the vintage, ventor, etc. There is also a significant difference
> in the aroma/flavor of everclear compared to brandy, regardless of
> what the vendor might claim.

A significant difference if tasted side by side, but after mixing 1 to
4 with a strongly flavored, sweet, high tannin, acidic wine?

This is assuming straight, unaged, never saw a barrel, brandy. If
we're talking brandies that we buy in a store that spend years picking
up flavor from wood (or worse with artificial flavors added), I think
it could impact the flavor.

>
> BTW, by definition, it's all distilled to 190 proof. Dilution is
> required to get back to 160, or 80 or whatever.
>
> With that said, the negative organoleptic impact of everclear is much
> less than what's created from the dilution when using lower
> concentrations of alc.

Agree completely.

Andy

Freeze concentrate.. It's the cheapest, and IMO produces the best tasting
port!

http://www.distilling.netfirms.com/

LG

(StarrFarms1) wrote:

>Hi all, I've been reading along with facination the recent threads on
>this board and others about making port. I would really like to try to
>make some, but only have a vague idea how to do it. There doesn't
>seam to be a lot to it, but a few people make it sound like it is
>quite difficult. I would like to make it the traditional style, using
>160 proof brandy (I've found a source).
>Is there any links or sources on the web available? There is SOOO
>much available on making wine, but I haven't found anything on making
>port.
>Thanks for any help

LG > wrote:

>Freeze concentrate.. It's the cheapest, and IMO produces the best tasting
>port!

To clarify.. because you're freeze concentrating, and not fortifying with
"harsh" distilled alcohol, it's my opinion that port made this way doesn't
need nearly the aging that fortified port does. Also, the flavours are
double-concentrated, since you're doubling the alcohol, as well as
everything else (flavours, acids, sugars, etc.) If you don't want such
concentrated flavours in the end product, you can water down your starting
batch and add a little more sugar -- but some of us like all that flavour.
Some friends have said a burgendy/elderberry port I made is some of the
very best port they've ever had!

LG