My merlot is in secondary fermentation. What is the procedure for measuring
TA now that there is alcohol and SO2 present? I have the general idea of
boiling the wine and refilling with water to the original wine level. What
size sample is best? How long would I boil it? Heavy boil or less that 212
degrees? Thanks for any tips on this one......

A few seconds is enough. As soon as it boils you have released the
CO2, which is all that matters.

Regards,
Joe


"Bruce" > wrote in message >...
> My merlot is in secondary fermentation. What is the procedure for measuring
> TA now that there is alcohol and SO2 present? I have the general idea of
> boiling the wine and refilling with water to the original wine level. What
> size sample is best? How long would I boil it? Heavy boil or less that 212
> degrees? Thanks for any tips on this one......

Bruce wrote "What is the procedure for measuring TA now that there is
alcohol and SO2 present? I have the general idea of boiling the wine and
refilling with water to the original wine level. What size sample is best?
How long would I boil it? Heavy boil or less that 212 degrees? Thanks for
any tips on this one"

Bruce - Be careful what type water you add to replace water lost during the
boil. Example - my local KC tap water pH is around 9. Water with this much
alkalinity will surely neutralize some acid in your sample. Best to use
distilled or reverse osmosis water for all of your TA titrations and to
replace boil-off water. Sample size - large enough so you can easily
measure your test samples. Also, use a calibrated beaker or cup so you can
tell the original volume. Boil time - I don't know for sure. It wouldn't
be long. I just put mine in the microwave and heat till I see bubbles
coming off.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas

"William Frazier" > wrote in message >...
> Bruce wrote "What is the procedure for measuring TA now that there is
> alcohol and SO2 present? I have the general idea of boiling the wine and
> refilling with water to the original wine level. What size sample is best?
> How long would I boil it? Heavy boil or less that 212 degrees? Thanks for
> any tips on this one"

Just do what it says on the test pack, 5 ml generally is used. Boil or
whatever to get the CO2 out, boiling doesn't evaporate the acids which
you are neutralizing, but more than bringing to the boil is
unnecessary. You can fill up with as much water as you like, as the
total amount of acid only depends on the original sample of 5 ml wine.
It's often diluted to 50 ml, which is practical if you're looking for
colour changes. Alcohol or SO2 don't have influence on this
measurement.

pH of the water for dilution has minimal influence on TA measurement
(say less than 0.01%TA), so don't bother with the next advice which is
I'm sure given with the best intentions:


> Bruce - Be careful what type water you add to replace water lost during the
> boil. Example - my local KC tap water pH is around 9. Water with this much
> alkalinity will surely neutralize some acid in your sample. Best to use
> distilled or reverse osmosis water for all of your TA titrations and to
> replace boil-off water. Sample size - large enough so you can easily
> measure your test samples. Also, use a calibrated beaker or cup so you can
> tell the original volume. Boil time - I don't know for sure. It wouldn't
> be long. I just put mine in the microwave and heat till I see bubbles
> coming off.
>
> Bill Frazier
> Olathe, Kansas

Great help... many thanks guys......

"Rene" > wrote in message
om...
> "William Frazier" > wrote in message

Rene wrote "Just do what it says on the test pack, 5 ml generally is used.
Boil or whatever to get the CO2 out, boiling doesn't evaporate the acids
which you are neutralizing, but more than bringing to the boil is
unnecessary. You can fill up with as much water as you like, as the total
amount of acid only depends on the original sample of 5 ml wine."

Rene-If you heat or boil you wine sample before dilution you very well may
drive off enough volume to change the acid concentration. Been there, done
that. If you dilute your 5 ml wine sample before heating or boiling you may
be OK but I usually heat my wine before measuring the sample for testing.

"pH of the water for dilution has minimal influence on TA measurement (say
less than 0.01%TA), so don't bother with the next advice which is I'm sure
given with the best intentions:"

Rene - I don't know where you live but here in the Kansas City area our tap
water pH is usually around 9 and the water is chuck full of minerals. Just
the other night, at wine club meeting, we were discussing this very question
(what difference does water make in TA measurement). A Vidal wine was
tested, using distilled water for sample dilution. Result 0.63 %TA. The
test was repeated using our tap water for dilution. Result 0.47 %TA. Quite
a dramatic differenct IMO. Perhaps for people whose local water is very
soft it might not make as much difference but in our area it's best to use
distilled or RO water.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas

Hi: Heat to boiling then cool it down quickly and titrate.

Joe
"Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
om...
> A few seconds is enough. As soon as it boils you have released the
> CO2, which is all that matters.
>
> Regards,
> Joe
>
>
> "Bruce" > wrote in message
>...
> > My merlot is in secondary fermentation. What is the procedure for
measuring
> > TA now that there is alcohol and SO2 present? I have the general idea
of
> > boiling the wine and refilling with water to the original wine level.
What
> > size sample is best? How long would I boil it? Heavy boil or less that
212
> > degrees? Thanks for any tips on this one......

If you want to get CO2 out of a sample quickly, buy one of the vacuum wine
savers designed to preserve a bottle of wine after it is opened. They have
a pump that pulls a vacuum on a bottle of wine to remove O2 from the
headspace. You can put your sample in a 375ml bottle and pull a vacuum
using the pump. The wine will give up the dissolved CO2 pretty easily under
these conditions and no heating is involved.

CHEERS!


"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> My merlot is in secondary fermentation. What is the procedure for
measuring
> TA now that there is alcohol and SO2 present? I have the general idea of
> boiling the wine and refilling with water to the original wine level.
What
> size sample is best? How long would I boil it? Heavy boil or less that
212
> degrees? Thanks for any tips on this one......
>
>

Thank you for the great idea!

"Aaron Puhala" > wrote in message
...
> If you want to get CO2 out of a sample quickly, buy one of the vacuum wine
> savers designed to preserve a bottle of wine after it is opened. They
have
> a pump that pulls a vacuum on a bottle of wine to remove O2 from the
> headspace. You can put your sample in a 375ml bottle and pull a vacuum
> using the pump. The wine will give up the dissolved CO2 pretty easily
under
> these conditions and no heating is involved.
>
> CHEERS!
>
>
> "Bruce" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > My merlot is in secondary fermentation. What is the procedure for
> measuring
> > TA now that there is alcohol and SO2 present? I have the general idea
of
> > boiling the wine and refilling with water to the original wine level.
> What
> > size sample is best? How long would I boil it? Heavy boil or less that
> 212
> > degrees? Thanks for any tips on this one......
> >
> >
>
>

Bill,

That's absolutely amazing!
I would call it 'buffered water' I wonder if you could drink it safely :-)
Rene.

> "pH of the water for dilution has minimal influence on TA measurement (say
> less than 0.01%TA), so don't bother with the next advice which is I'm sure
> given with the best intentions:"
>
> Rene - I don't know where you live but here in the Kansas City area our tap
> water pH is usually around 9 and the water is chuck full of minerals. Just
> the other night, at wine club meeting, we were discussing this very question
> (what difference does water make in TA measurement). A Vidal wine was
> tested, using distilled water for sample dilution. Result 0.63 %TA. The
> test was repeated using our tap water for dilution. Result 0.47 %TA. Quite
> a dramatic differenct IMO. Perhaps for people whose local water is very
> soft it might not make as much difference but in our area it's best to use
> distilled or RO water.
>
> Bill Frazier
> Olathe, Kansas

Overly complicated suggestions. I have worked in the lab at Ferrari Carano
Winery (100,000 cases) and the answer there is simple.

Heat the 5 ml sample for about 9 to 10 seconds in the microwave, add distilled
water to dilute so you can easily see the endpoint, then titrate.

Bob B