Ken Mitchelhill wrote "If anyone has had experience with ageing apparently
stable, high malic acid reds in oak and then bottle without the use of
sterile filtration, I would be grateful to hear about them."

Ken - If you are worried about the ML fermentation starting again after
bottling I'm wondering if a dose of Lysozyme would be in order before you
bottle. What does everyone think?

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas

Ken,

Like yourself, I cannot understand why MLF under those conditions did
not occur. I would personally proceed with your suggested course of
action but you might want to bring the wine to only 20 ppm's sulfite to
encourage MLF in the barrel, particularly if there has been wine in it
that has undergone MLF, my guess is the chances are pretty good. You
will of course, want to maintain the sulfite level in the barrel during
the next year.

I have tried lysozyme in the past on aromatic styled wines with the hope
of preventing MLF but with inconsistent success and I personally find it
messy to work with so my preference would be to try and encourage it
before bottling. Of course, if its on some yeast sediment and stirred
occasionally that also encourages MLF. If no MLF happens then the use
of lysozyme recommended by Bill Frazier prior to bottling might be a
good idea although I'm not sure on the recommended timing of lysozyme at
that point.

An MLF during bottle ageing is about the last thing you want happening.

Good luck,

Glen Duff
----------------------
Ken Mitchelhill wrote:

> Winemakers,
>
> six months ago, I produced a batch of 14% alcohol shiraz that refuses to
> progress through MLF. I initially innoculated mid primary ferment together
> with MLF nutrient and nothing much happened by the time the callar started
> cooling in the autumn (aka fall). I racked off gross lees into oak and
> reinnoculated with a strain tolerant of high alcohol and maintained at 22
> degrees C for the past 2 months. Still only a modest lactic acid spot and a
> substantial malic spot by TLC.
>
> Given this experience, the wine itself is obviously bacterially stable, and
> I was wondering what the likely implications of dumping in 30ppm SO2 and
> leaving the wine with substantial malic acid to age for another year in oak?
> The wine itself has big fruit flavours and is integrating nice oak
> characters so I am not worried about the flavour impact of the malic just
> curious about how it will affect the stability.
>
> If anyone has had experience with ageing apparently stable, high malic acid
> reds in oak and then bottle without the use of sterile filtration, I would
> be grateful to hear about them.
>
> regards...Ken
> http://www.axecreekwines.com
>
>
>

Winemakers,

six months ago, I produced a batch of 14% alcohol shiraz that refuses to
progress through MLF. I initially innoculated mid primary ferment together
with MLF nutrient and nothing much happened by the time the callar started
cooling in the autumn (aka fall). I racked off gross lees into oak and
reinnoculated with a strain tolerant of high alcohol and maintained at 22
degrees C for the past 2 months. Still only a modest lactic acid spot and a
substantial malic spot by TLC.

Given this experience, the wine itself is obviously bacterially stable, and
I was wondering what the likely implications of dumping in 30ppm SO2 and
leaving the wine with substantial malic acid to age for another year in oak?
The wine itself has big fruit flavours and is integrating nice oak
characters so I am not worried about the flavour impact of the malic just
curious about how it will affect the stability.

If anyone has had experience with ageing apparently stable, high malic acid
reds in oak and then bottle without the use of sterile filtration, I would
be grateful to hear about them.

regards...Ken
http://www.axecreekwines.com

I mkaw Shiraz from California and do not use MLF on it; no issues to
date. I sulfite to 0.8 molecular.
Regards,
Joe
Glen Duff > wrote in message >...
> Ken,
>
> Like yourself, I cannot understand why MLF under those conditions did
> not occur. I would personally proceed with your suggested course of
> action but you might want to bring the wine to only 20 ppm's sulfite to
> encourage MLF in the barrel, particularly if there has been wine in it
> that has undergone MLF, my guess is the chances are pretty good. You
> will of course, want to maintain the sulfite level in the barrel during
> the next year.
>
> I have tried lysozyme in the past on aromatic styled wines with the hope
> of preventing MLF but with inconsistent success and I personally find it
> messy to work with so my preference would be to try and encourage it
> before bottling. Of course, if its on some yeast sediment and stirred
> occasionally that also encourages MLF. If no MLF happens then the use
> of lysozyme recommended by Bill Frazier prior to bottling might be a
> good idea although I'm not sure on the recommended timing of lysozyme at
> that point.
>
> An MLF during bottle ageing is about the last thing you want happening.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Glen Duff
> ----------------------
> Ken Mitchelhill wrote:
>
> > Winemakers,
> >
> > six months ago, I produced a batch of 14% alcohol shiraz that refuses to
> > progress through MLF. I initially innoculated mid primary ferment together
> > with MLF nutrient and nothing much happened by the time the callar started
> > cooling in the autumn (aka fall). I racked off gross lees into oak and
> > reinnoculated with a strain tolerant of high alcohol and maintained at 22
> > degrees C for the past 2 months. Still only a modest lactic acid spot and a
> > substantial malic spot by TLC.
> >
> > Given this experience, the wine itself is obviously bacterially stable, and
> > I was wondering what the likely implications of dumping in 30ppm SO2 and
> > leaving the wine with substantial malic acid to age for another year in oak?
> > The wine itself has big fruit flavours and is integrating nice oak
> > characters so I am not worried about the flavour impact of the malic just
> > curious about how it will affect the stability.
> >
> > If anyone has had experience with ageing apparently stable, high malic acid
> > reds in oak and then bottle without the use of sterile filtration, I would
> > be grateful to hear about them.
> >
> > regards...Ken
> > http://www.axecreekwines.com
> >
> >
> >

I just got a batch of ML culture from PI. The instructions say that wine
over 14% may be hard to get ML to start in. Due to errors in the way
alcohol % is calculated your wine is possibly 14.5 or even higher.

Ray

"Ken Mitchelhill" > wrote in message
...
> Winemakers,
>
> six months ago, I produced a batch of 14% alcohol shiraz that refuses to
> progress through MLF. I initially innoculated mid primary ferment together
> with MLF nutrient and nothing much happened by the time the callar started
> cooling in the autumn (aka fall). I racked off gross lees into oak and
> reinnoculated with a strain tolerant of high alcohol and maintained at 22
> degrees C for the past 2 months. Still only a modest lactic acid spot and
a
> substantial malic spot by TLC.
>
> Given this experience, the wine itself is obviously bacterially stable,
and
> I was wondering what the likely implications of dumping in 30ppm SO2 and
> leaving the wine with substantial malic acid to age for another year in
oak?
> The wine itself has big fruit flavours and is integrating nice oak
> characters so I am not worried about the flavour impact of the malic just
> curious about how it will affect the stability.
>
> If anyone has had experience with ageing apparently stable, high malic
acid
> reds in oak and then bottle without the use of sterile filtration, I would
> be grateful to hear about them.
>
> regards...Ken
> http://www.axecreekwines.com
>
>
>

The 30ppm SO2 will take care of the MLF culture which HATE SO2. If
your wine was over 10ppm your MLF likely would behave this way.

Shiraz that is high in malic is PERFECT to blend with Cab Sauv (20-30%
Cab) as this will balance out the acid and leave the fruit and oak
happy.

Irene

"Ken Mitchelhill" > wrote in message >...
> Winemakers,
>
> six months ago, I produced a batch of 14% alcohol shiraz that refuses to
> progress through MLF. I initially innoculated mid primary ferment together
> with MLF nutrient and nothing much happened by the time the callar started
> cooling in the autumn (aka fall). I racked off gross lees into oak and
> reinnoculated with a strain tolerant of high alcohol and maintained at 22
> degrees C for the past 2 months. Still only a modest lactic acid spot and a
> substantial malic spot by TLC.
>
> Given this experience, the wine itself is obviously bacterially stable, and
> I was wondering what the likely implications of dumping in 30ppm SO2 and
> leaving the wine with substantial malic acid to age for another year in oak?
> The wine itself has big fruit flavours and is integrating nice oak
> characters so I am not worried about the flavour impact of the malic just
> curious about how it will affect the stability.
>
> If anyone has had experience with ageing apparently stable, high malic acid
> reds in oak and then bottle without the use of sterile filtration, I would
> be grateful to hear about them.
>
> regards...Ken
> http://www.axecreekwines.com