Hi all,
I've been looking online for sources of high proof alcohol so I can
make a late harvest port style wine this year. All I can come up with
is everclear and various 151 proof rums. I'd like to do this with a
"real" brandy so the flavor comes as close to port as possible. Can
anyone suggest commercial sources for uncut (130-170 proof) brandy? If
everclear and other kinds work well I'll use them too-this is my 1st
time doing a port-style.
Thanks,
Sam

"Sam Goth" > wrote in message
m...
> Hi all,
> I've been looking online for sources of high proof alcohol so I can
> make a late harvest port style wine this year. All I can come up with
> is everclear and various 151 proof rums. I'd like to do this with a
> "real" brandy so the flavor comes as close to port as possible. Can
> anyone suggest commercial sources for uncut (130-170 proof) brandy? If
> everclear and other kinds work well I'll use them too-this is my 1st
> time doing a port-style.
> Thanks,
> Sam

Sam,
I don't believe high proof brandy is not available on the retail market. I
think your best bet is Everclear.
lum

In article > ,
(Sam Goth) wrote:

> Hi all,
> I've been looking online for sources of high proof alcohol so I can
> make a late harvest port style wine this year. All I can come up with
> is everclear and various 151 proof rums. I'd like to do this with a
> "real" brandy so the flavor comes as close to port as possible. Can
> anyone suggest commercial sources for uncut (130-170 proof) brandy? If
> everclear and other kinds work well I'll use them too-this is my 1st
> time doing a port-style.
> Thanks,
> Sam

I use everclear. I have never seen high proof brandy on the market. I
believe, with high proof brandy that commercial port makers use, there
is very little of the wine taste left in it. From experience with two
ports now, I am pleased with the results using everclear.

--
Greg Cook
http://homepage.mac.com/gregcook/Wine

(remove spamblocker from my email address)

A question regarding Port style wines. (A first attempt)!

I just bottled 15 bottles of Blueberry Melomel in a port style. Starting
with the original melomel that had an alcohol count of 12.5%, I added to
each bottle, 125 ml of 40% brandy to make a port of about 17%. Both the
melomel and the port were clear, but I now see that a substantial
precipitate has formed in the bottles. The precipitate started to form
within a few hours of mixing and now after a week it is rather noticeable
when the bottle is disturbed. The precipitate is dark brown, and rapidly
falls to the bottom of the bottle, fortunately the rest of the fluid seems
to have retained its color.

Is this kind of reaction normal?

It appears that it would have been best to mix and let settle before
bottling. Has anybody had this kind of thing happen to them?

22 brix


"Sam Goth" > wrote in message
m...
> Hi all,
> I've been looking online for sources of high proof alcohol so I can
> make a late harvest port style wine this year. All I can come up with
> is everclear and various 151 proof rums. I'd like to do this with a
> "real" brandy so the flavor comes as close to port as possible. Can
> anyone suggest commercial sources for uncut (130-170 proof) brandy? If
> everclear and other kinds work well I'll use them too-this is my 1st
> time doing a port-style.
> Thanks,
> Sam

Just a suggestion but my suggestion is to use as little everclear or
whatever as possible by using a yeast with a high alcohol tolerance and
feeding it slowly so you can get it up to 17-19% alcohol without adding
anything. Everclear will definitely dilute the taste of the fruit. No this
is not the way they do it in general commercially but then they do not want
to spend the time of babying the wine along. You, as an armature can. If
you want to use a yeast that might generate a specific taste but will not
yield the alcohol level desired, then start with your yeast. When it is
going good, inoculate with the high alcohol yeast. Then when the taste
generating yeast fails, the high alcohol yeast will kick in.

Ray

"Sam Goth" > wrote in message
m...
> Hi all,
> I've been looking online for sources of high proof alcohol so I can
> make a late harvest port style wine this year. All I can come up with
> is everclear and various 151 proof rums. I'd like to do this with a
> "real" brandy so the flavor comes as close to port as possible. Can
> anyone suggest commercial sources for uncut (130-170 proof) brandy? If
> everclear and other kinds work well I'll use them too-this is my 1st
> time doing a port-style.
> Thanks,
> Sam

> Just a suggestion but my suggestion is to use as little everclear or
> whatever as possible by using a yeast with a high alcohol tolerance and
> feeding it slowly so you can get it up to 17-19% alcohol without adding
> anything. Everclear will definitely dilute the taste of the fruit.

For the most part, this is not true. Dilution will occur regardless of how
the alcohol is introduced. (13.5 pounds of sugar increases wine volume by
one gallon). Also, when high proof is added at the proper time, early in
the fermentation, the extraction created by the increase in ethyl alcohol
will counteract any dilution, especially if the must was condensed in the
first place... a good quality when making port, btw.

The character difference is dramatic between an arrested fermentation and
one that is simply allowed to reach higher alcohol concentrations through
chaptalization. Much more fruit components are left in an alcohol arrested
fermentation, just like in a thermally arrested fermentation.


> this
> is not the way they do it in general commercially but then they do not
want
> to spend the time of babying the wine along.

Again, this is false. If it were a better method, it would be practiced
commercially by someone, somewhere. Beyond everything else, adding that
much sugar happens to be illegal here in the states for commercial wine.

clyde

If you do choose to use a commercial brandy, PAARL (South Africa) is
the best in its price range for that purpose IMO. I.E. basis a few
liqueur making trials and errrors.

22 Brix,

22 Brix wrote:
<snip> Is this kind of reaction normal?


Basically, yes, if there's something in the wine that is only
borderline soluble at 12.5% ETOH, but less soluble at 17%. All you did
was render something insoluble by making the wine a little more
non-polar. In the back of my head I seem to recall a test for something
(protein?) that involves adding a dose of methanol to cause a
precipitate. Perhaps you triggered a flocculation of protein & tannins
or anthocyanins? Probably no real harm done, other than esthetic.

The same thing can happen when blending two wines of different pH, etc.
As you point out, it's always best to see what unexpected things happen
when we tinker.

HTH, Mike MTM

"MikeMTM" > wrote :

> ... In the back of my head I seem to recall a test for something
> (protein?) that involves adding a dose of methanol to cause a
> precipitate....

Adding 100 ml of methanol to 30 ml of wine will cause jelly-like clots or
strings if there is a pectin haze.

Guys,
Thanks alot for the advice-I will stop the fermentation with everclear
at 8-10 Brix and macerate for another 1-2 weeks before pressing. Has
anyone "cheated" by doing a saignee before ptiching and tossing in the
extra skins for more color and flavor? Was it worthwhile? I'll post on
the wine's major antics as it undergoes controlled decomposition....
Thanks again,
Sam


"Clyde Gill" > wrote in message >...
> > Just a suggestion but my suggestion is to use as little everclear or
> > whatever as possible by using a yeast with a high alcohol tolerance and
> > feeding it slowly so you can get it up to 17-19% alcohol without adding
> > anything. Everclear will definitely dilute the taste of the fruit.
>
> For the most part, this is not true. Dilution will occur regardless of how
> the alcohol is introduced. (13.5 pounds of sugar increases wine volume by
> one gallon). Also, when high proof is added at the proper time, early in
> the fermentation, the extraction created by the increase in ethyl alcohol
> will counteract any dilution, especially if the must was condensed in the
> first place... a good quality when making port, btw.
>
> The character difference is dramatic between an arrested fermentation and
> one that is simply allowed to reach higher alcohol concentrations through
> chaptalization. Much more fruit components are left in an alcohol arrested
> fermentation, just like in a thermally arrested fermentation.
>
>
> > this
> > is not the way they do it in general commercially but then they do not
> want
> > to spend the time of babying the wine along.
>
> Again, this is false. If it were a better method, it would be practiced
> commercially by someone, somewhere. Beyond everything else, adding that
> much sugar happens to be illegal here in the states for commercial wine.
>
> clyde

Try contacting some local commercial winemakers if you have some
nearby that make port. Someone may be willing to help you out in
obtaining some high-proof brandy. I've had port fortified with brandy
and with grain alcohol (from different wineries), and although I can't
say for sure if there is a noticable difference due to the
fortification method since every wine has its own distinct taste, just
knowing that your port uses all grape additions is rewarding in
itself. After all, I wouldn't think that the ports from Portugal use
grain alcohol for fortification.

Clyde wrote,with respect to stopping fermentation of a port by adding high
test alcohol, "The character difference is dramatic between an arrested
fermentation and one that is simply allowed to reach higher alcohol
concentrations through chaptalization. Much more fruit components are left
in an alcohol arrested fermentation, just like in a thermally arrested
fermentation."

Hi Clyde - Holyfield Winery, in Basehor Kansas, make a great tasting port
from Leon Millot and Foch grapes. Les uses the high alcohol brandy that is
discussed in this thread and he stops fermentation as you suggest. I'll
have to check with him on the particulars. If you were making a port at
what brix would you add the alcohol to stop fermentation? Is this mainly a
taste thing or do you have a general sugar content that you would shoot for?
Thanks.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas

On 10/22/03 9:31 AM, in article
, "Miker"
> wrote:

> Try contacting some local commercial winemakers if you have some
> nearby that make port. Someone may be willing to help you out in
> obtaining some high-proof brandy. I've had port fortified with brandy
> and with grain alcohol (from different wineries), and although I can't
> say for sure if there is a noticable difference due to the
> fortification method since every wine has its own distinct taste, just
> knowing that your port uses all grape additions is rewarding in
> itself. After all, I wouldn't think that the ports from Portugal use
> grain alcohol for fortification.

I suspect a winery would be very reluctant to give or sell you any distilled
spirits. Most probably do not have a license to do so.

(Miker) wrote in message om>...
> Try contacting some local commercial winemakers if you have some
> nearby that make port. Someone may be willing to help you out in
> obtaining some high-proof brandy. I've had port fortified with brandy
> and with grain alcohol (from different wineries), and although I can't
> say for sure if there is a noticable difference due to the
> fortification method since every wine has its own distinct taste, just
> knowing that your port uses all grape additions is rewarding in
> itself. After all, I wouldn't think that the ports from Portugal use
> grain alcohol for fortification.

I have read a recent thread here on a freeze concentration method. You
can google to look for the thread. There was a link to a web page that
illustrated this method well. It used "tornado tubes" and two liter
bottles. Shown in the pictures, it seemed that the vast majority of
the stuff left behind in the freeze concentration method was ice, i.e.
water. So, I know someone will chime in and say "this is
distillation--illegal--blah, blah--this will concentrate the heads and
tails as well." Yes, this is technically true to some extent.

But I was curious about doing a hybrid method: part freeze
concentration, just to boost up the flavor profile a bit, and part
standard sweetening and fortifying (also illegal, I may add, but what
the hell, most of the fun things in life are...). I was wondering
about the merits of brandy, grain alcohol, or even a high quality
grappa. I'm not sure, as the brandy or grappa has that snob appeal,
but then again, the grain is the highest proof, and would yield the
alcohol content desired but with the least dilution.

So what do you all think about the hybrid method idea? I have not
tried any method yet. But I am damn curious, I'll tell you what.

Regards,

Deadend

Deadend wrote:

> standard sweetening and fortifying (also illegal, I may add, but what
> the hell, most of the fun things in life are...).

Is it actually illegal (in the US I assume) to add alcohol to your
homemade wine?

--
charles

"Once ... in the wilds of Afghanistan, I lost my corkscrew, and we were
forced to live on nothing but food and water for days."
- W.C. Fields

"Deadend" > wrote:

> I have read a recent thread here on a freeze concentration method. You
> can google to look for the thread. There was a link to a web page that
> illustrated this method well. It used "tornado tubes" and two liter
> bottles. Shown in the pictures, it seemed that the vast majority of
> the stuff left behind in the freeze concentration method was ice, i.e.
> water. So, I know someone will chime in and say "this is
> distillation--illegal--blah, blah--this will concentrate the heads and
> tails as well." Yes, this is technically true to some extent.
>
> But I was curious about doing a hybrid method: part freeze
> concentration, just to boost up the flavor profile a bit, and part
> standard sweetening and fortifying (also illegal, I may add, but what
> the hell, most of the fun things in life are...). I was wondering
> about the merits of brandy, grain alcohol, or even a high quality
> grappa. I'm not sure, as the brandy or grappa has that snob appeal,
> but then again, the grain is the highest proof, and would yield the
> alcohol content desired but with the least dilution.
>
> So what do you all think about the hybrid method idea? I have not
> tried any method yet. But I am damn curious, I'll tell you what.
>
> Regards,

Any type of distillation is highly illegal in the U.S. If you get caught,
BBB (Benevolent Big Brother) can legally confiscate not only your still, and
your whiskey, but ALL the real property and chattels on the property where
the still is found! This ludicrous prohibition era law which is still on
the books, and actively enforced, can and has been applied to freeze
distillation. Rule of thumb: find some public property at least 10 miles
from yours, to run that still. And set a bangalor mine field around the
perimeter (also illegal, but what pretty fireworks).

"Charles H" > wrote:

> Is it actually illegal (in the US I assume) to add alcohol to your
> homemade wine?

No. In the US, it is illegal to produce alcohol via (any form of)
distillation, but one can add anything one wishes (except class 3 controlled
substances) to wine or beer for personal consumption.

The law in Canada is similar.

In Saudi Arabia it is illegal to add alcohol to anything (or to posses
it) --- unless you are an Emir, in which case the law is your personal
servant. The penalty for distillation is beheading. The penalty for imbibing
is watching a beheading before your own. The penalty for possession is a
public whipping (39 lashes).

In Mezcal, the penalty for distillation is 1/5 your production to the local
constabulary for "qa assurance".

On 10/22/03 3:00 PM, in article , "Charles
H" > wrote:

> Deadend wrote:
>
>> standard sweetening and fortifying (also illegal, I may add, but what
>> the hell, most of the fun things in life are...).
>
> Is it actually illegal (in the US I assume) to add alcohol to your
> homemade wine?

No, it's definitely not illegal to add alcohol that was purchased (and all
due taxes paid). The only thing that would be illegal is concentration of
alcohol - I believe through distillation AND freeze concentration.
--
Greg Cook
http://homepage.mac.com/gregcook/Wine

(remove spamblocker from my email)

(Miker) wrote in message om>...
> After all, I wouldn't think that the ports from Portugal use
> grain alcohol for fortification.

No, they can't use grain alcohol in Portugal, but the "brandy" they
use is more like grain alcohol than the brandy you buy in a store.

In Portugal, they use highly distilled, clear liquor that is made from
grapes. It is not really what we would consider brandy. Brandy you buy
in a store is distilled to around 80 proof and aged in heavily charred
barrels that imparts both color and flavor to the product. They
wouldn't use this in Portugal either.

The point is to raise the alcohol without changing the flavor or color
of the wine. IMHO, grain alcohol (like everclear) is your best option.

Andy

This may be of interest to you=20
"Sherry and Port are perhaps the best known household names in fortified =
wines - so why are they so different? Apart from location, grape =
varieties, soil etc. there is a fundamental difference in the way they =
are vinified. With Port, the alcohol is added during fermentation, thus =
halting the process and leaving some residual sugars unconverted. =
Sherry, on the other hand, is always fermented fully to dry with the =
alcohol added at the end of the process - any sweetening is performed =
subsequently"

You may consider using Polish spirit or vodka which would not impair the =
flavour but would give it body.
One point you may have come across definitions of proof very.
Stephen



"Sam Goth" > wrote in message =
m...
Hi all,
I've been looking online for sources of high proof alcohol so I can
make a late harvest port style wine this year. All I can come up with
is everclear and various 151 proof rums. I'd like to do this with a
"real" brandy so the flavor comes as close to port as possible. Can
anyone suggest commercial sources for uncut (130-170 proof) brandy? If
everclear and other kinds work well I'll use them too-this is my 1st
time doing a port-style.
Thanks,
Sam

>
>Hi Clyde - Holyfield Winery, in Basehor Kansas, make a great tasting port
>from Leon Millot and Foch grapes. Les uses the high alcohol brandy that is
>discussed in this thread and he stops fermentation as you suggest. I'll
>have to check with him on the particulars. If you were making a port at
>what brix would you add the alcohol to stop fermentation? Is this mainly a
>taste thing or do you have a general sugar content that you would shoot
for?
>Thanks.
>
>Bill Frazier
>Olathe, Kansas
>


Sorry 'bout the delay in response Bill. Still trying to wrap up things from
crush around here (and try out a new news reader!)

Anyway, I've tried some of Les' port style wine and it was wonderful. At
the time, I thought it was only Foch, but tremendous none the less for a
ruby port style.

Concerning when to stop a port, ruby's tend to have between 8 -12 % sugar,
but the exact desirable endpoint is, as you would describe, dictated by
taste and therefore dependent on the TA. The fortification should be done
several degrees before the desired target. In other words, if you want 9%,
hit the must at 11%, as it will take awhile for the yeast to actually stop.

I've pondered, without any real answers, about the drift time between when
the alc is added and fermentation stops. Theoretically, if the calculation
for desired alcohol is correct, the fortification can take place anytime
before the endpoint, and the fermentation will stop at the proper point, by
definintion, when the alc/sugar/pH levels become toxic to the yeast.

I've yet to do a production port style yet, but have done my second
experimental batch this year (doubled the volume to 10 gallons) using
Norton, which I affectionately call it "Porton".

clyde

On 10/25/03 9:46 AM, in article
, "Clyde Gill" >
wrote:

> I've yet to do a production port style yet, but have done my second
> experimental batch this year (doubled the volume to 10 gallons) using
> Norton, which I affectionately call it "Porton".
>
> clyde

And if my poor palette is any indication, it will turn out well. Thanks for
the taste, Clyde.

I am just about to start my second day of touring MO wineries. Yesterday, I
had the opportunity to taste several ruby ports made from Norton grapes. I
am thoroughly impressed. This grape seems to be very versatile - suitable
for dry red oaky wines as well as fresh fruity jammy full of berry wines. It
is the latter that I believe makes for outstanding port. In addition, it has
a color that is hard to beat -- deeply rich and intense dark red.

--
Greg Cook
http://homepage.mac.com/gregcook/Wine

(remove spamblocker from my email)

>
>And if my poor palette is any indication, it will turn out well. Thanks for
>the taste, Clyde.
>
>I am just about to start my second day of touring MO wineries. Yesterday, I
>had the opportunity to taste several ruby ports made from Norton grapes. I
>am thoroughly impressed. This grape seems to be very versatile - suitable
>for dry red oaky wines as well as fresh fruity jammy full of berry wines. It
>is the latter that I believe makes for outstanding port. In addition, it has
>a color that is hard to beat -- deeply rich and intense dark red.


It was my pleasure Greg. Nice to have someone to work with me in the
cellar!!

Looks to be a nice day for the remainder of your MO wine tour.


clyde