Hi.

I made three batches (15 gallons each) of dried elderberry /
blackberry / summer fruits wine (some oaked with oak dust/granules,
some with oak cubes and some with oak staves) with a six month
interval between each batch. I have now racked the first batch 4
times (since it entered the primary fermentation container) over the
last 2 years. It has been sitting in better bottles since and is
looking, smelling and tasting quite good.

I now plan to bottle the first batch faily soon (the subsequent two
batches will follow at 6 month intervals). I planned to rack a final
time before bottling and am beginning to consider how much sulfite or
campden tablets (if any) I should add in this last rack - per 5 (UK)
gallon batch. I added some (I think a campden per gallon) at must
stage and I think the same quantity again after about a year but I
confess I have lost the paperwork. (I also have no access to sulfite
tests that I know of).

I invite suggestions of a suitable addition per 5 gallon batch to help
this wine age. The wine is medium heavy with dried elderberries and
other fruit and I plan to age it in bottle at least a further year
before drinking any more - it is still pretty tannic (as an ex-smoker
and tannin lover that is perfect - I like that in a wine), but I would
like the wine to survive at least a further 3 years in bottle after
that - preferably more. I plan to bottle some with high end colmated
cork, some with natural cork and some with synthetic seals as an
experiment unless anyone has definitive arguments for a single high
quality and sourceable seal for my recycled bottles.

Suggestions please and thank you

It really all depends on the seal of the bottle. If you used screw
tops, I would just sulfite at 1 campden per gallon and bottle being
that no air would probably seep into the bottle, If your going to use
corks , if it was my wine, I would use all synthetic corks and
sulfite at 2 campden tablets per gallon.. That should give you 100ppm
and the synthetic corks should keep a good seal. I wouldn't use real
cork. Cork is only a tradition and there is no advantages of using it
unless you want to impress your friends with the unexpected elderberry/
blackberry sherry every once in a while.


On Dec 2, 9:04*am, jim c > wrote:
> Hi.
>
> I made three batches (15 gallons each) of dried elderberry /
> blackberry / summer fruits wine (some oaked with oak dust/granules,
> some with oak cubes and some with oak staves) with a six month
> interval between each batch. *I have now racked the first batch 4
> times (since it entered the primary fermentation container) over the
> last 2 years. *It has been sitting in better bottles since and is
> looking, smelling and tasting quite good.
>
> I now plan to bottle the first batch faily soon (the subsequent two
> batches will follow at 6 month intervals). *I planned to rack a final
> time before bottling and am beginning to consider how much sulfite or
> campden tablets *(if any) I should add in this last rack - per 5 (UK)
> gallon batch. *I added some (I think a campden per gallon) at must
> stage and I think the same quantity again after about a year but I
> confess I have lost the paperwork. (I also have no access to sulfite
> tests that I know of).
>
> I invite suggestions of a suitable addition per 5 gallon batch to help
> this wine age. *The wine is medium heavy with dried elderberries and
> other fruit and I plan to age it in bottle at least a further year
> before drinking any more - it is still pretty tannic (as an ex-smoker
> and tannin lover that is perfect - I like that in a wine), but I would
> like the wine to survive at least a further 3 years in bottle after
> that - preferably more. *I plan to bottle some with high end colmated
> cork, some with natural cork and some with synthetic seals as an
> experiment unless anyone has definitive arguments for a single high
> quality and sourceable seal for my recycled bottles.
>
> Suggestions please and thank you

On Dec 3, 2:25*pm, wrote:
> It really all depends on the seal of the bottle. If you used screw
> tops, I would just sulfite at 1 campden per gallon and bottle being
> that no air would probably seep into the bottle, If your going to use
> corks , if it was my wine, *I *would use all synthetic corks and
> sulfite at 2 campden tablets per gallon.. That should give you 100ppm
> and the synthetic corks should keep a good seal. I wouldn't use real
> cork. Cork is only a tradition and there is no advantages of using it
> unless you want to impress your friends with the unexpected elderberry/
> blackberry sherry every once in a while.
>
> On Dec 2, 9:04*am, jim c > wrote:
>
> > Hi.
>
> > I made three batches (15 gallons each) of dried elderberry /
> > blackberry / summer fruits wine (some oaked with oak dust/granules,
> > some with oak cubes and some with oak staves) with a six month
> > interval between each batch. *I have now racked the first batch 4
> > times (since it entered the primary fermentation container) over the
> > last 2 years. *It has been sitting in better bottles since and is
> > looking, smelling and tasting quite good.
>
> > I now plan to bottle the first batch faily soon (the subsequent two
> > batches will follow at 6 month intervals). *I planned to rack a final
> > time before bottling and am beginning to consider how much sulfite or
> > campden tablets *(if any) I should add in this last rack - per 5 (UK)
> > gallon batch. *I added some (I think a campden per gallon) at must
> > stage and I think the same quantity again after about a year but I
> > confess I have lost the paperwork. (I also have no access to sulfite
> > tests that I know of).
>
> > I invite suggestions of a suitable addition per 5 gallon batch to help
> > this wine age. *The wine is medium heavy with dried elderberries and
> > other fruit and I plan to age it in bottle at least a further year
> > before drinking any more - it is still pretty tannic (as an ex-smoker
> > and tannin lover that is perfect - I like that in a wine), but I would
> > like the wine to survive at least a further 3 years in bottle after
> > that - preferably more. *I plan to bottle some with high end colmated
> > cork, some with natural cork and some with synthetic seals as an
> > experiment unless anyone has definitive arguments for a single high
> > quality and sourceable seal for my recycled bottles.
>
> > Suggestions please and thank you

Thanks very much for the advice. I was planning to go all synthetic,
but then I had so much counter advice bemoaning the problems of having
a complete seal so I started to feel that maybe the best quality cork
was the way forward. Synthetic cork is far easier to source at a fair
price here. The best quality cork my most local wine-supplies store
sells are colmated. He said he trusts them far more than the natural
cork he can stock.

I tend to leave more ullage in bottles sealed synthetically as I have
had problems at corking with the seal being so airtight that the cork
pops back as the gas fights the compression! I guess that's less of a
problem than failed corks.

Jim

On Dec 3, 6:09*pm, jim c > wrote:
> On Dec 3, 2:25*pm, wrote:
>
>
>
> > It really all depends on the seal of the bottle. If you used screw
> > tops, I would just sulfite at 1 campden per gallon and bottle being
> > that no air would probably seep into the bottle, If your going to use
> > corks , if it was my wine, *I *would use all synthetic corks and
> > sulfite at 2 campden tablets per gallon.. That should give you 100ppm
> > and the synthetic corks should keep a good seal. I wouldn't use real
> > cork. Cork is only a tradition and there is no advantages of using it
> > unless you want to impress your friends with the unexpected elderberry/
> > blackberry sherry every once in a while.
>
> > On Dec 2, 9:04*am, jim c > wrote:
>
> > > Hi.
>
> > > I made three batches (15 gallons each) of dried elderberry /
> > > blackberry / summer fruits wine (some oaked with oak dust/granules,
> > > some with oak cubes and some with oak staves) with a six month
> > > interval between each batch. *I have now racked the first batch 4
> > > times (since it entered the primary fermentation container) over the
> > > last 2 years. *It has been sitting in better bottles since and is
> > > looking, smelling and tasting quite good.
>
> > > I now plan to bottle the first batch faily soon (the subsequent two
> > > batches will follow at 6 month intervals). *I planned to rack a final
> > > time before bottling and am beginning to consider how much sulfite or
> > > campden tablets *(if any) I should add in this last rack - per 5 (UK)
> > > gallon batch. *I added some (I think a campden per gallon) at must
> > > stage and I think the same quantity again after about a year but I
> > > confess I have lost the paperwork. (I also have no access to sulfite
> > > tests that I know of).
>
> > > I invite suggestions of a suitable addition per 5 gallon batch to help
> > > this wine age. *The wine is medium heavy with dried elderberries and
> > > other fruit and I plan to age it in bottle at least a further year
> > > before drinking any more - it is still pretty tannic (as an ex-smoker
> > > and tannin lover that is perfect - I like that in a wine), but I would
> > > like the wine to survive at least a further 3 years in bottle after
> > > that - preferably more. *I plan to bottle some with high end colmated
> > > cork, some with natural cork and some with synthetic seals as an
> > > experiment unless anyone has definitive arguments for a single high
> > > quality and sourceable seal for my recycled bottles.
>
> > > Suggestions please and thank you
>
> Thanks very much for the advice. *I was planning to go all synthetic,
> but then I had so much counter advice bemoaning the problems of having
> a complete seal so I started to feel that maybe the best quality cork
> was the way forward. *Synthetic cork is far easier to source at a fair
> price here. *The best quality cork my most local wine-supplies store
> sells are colmated. *He said he trusts them far more than the natural
> cork he can stock.
>
> I tend to leave more ullage in bottles sealed synthetically as I have
> had problems at corking with the seal being so airtight that the cork
> pops back as the gas fights the compression! *I guess that's less of a
> problem than failed corks.
>
> Jim

You need to degass the wine before bottling. The theory on wine in the
bottle, as I understand it at least, is that the oxygen added at
bottling should be the only oxygen added. There should be no
"breathing" from the cork or you would never be able to keep wine for
any length of time. Once bottled, no more oxygen should touch the
wine. What you need to make sure tho, is that all fermentation is done
and the wine is totally degassed.

On Dec 3, 6:09*pm, jim c > wrote:
> On Dec 3, 2:25*pm, wrote:
>
>
>
> > It really all depends on the seal of the bottle. If you used screw
> > tops, I would just sulfite at 1 campden per gallon and bottle being
> > that no air would probably seep into the bottle, If your going to use
> > corks , if it was my wine, *I *would use all synthetic corks and
> > sulfite at 2 campden tablets per gallon.. That should give you 100ppm
> > and the synthetic corks should keep a good seal. I wouldn't use real
> > cork. Cork is only a tradition and there is no advantages of using it
> > unless you want to impress your friends with the unexpected elderberry/
> > blackberry sherry every once in a while.
>
> > On Dec 2, 9:04*am, jim c > wrote:
>
> > > Hi.
>
> > > I made three batches (15 gallons each) of dried elderberry /
> > > blackberry / summer fruits wine (some oaked with oak dust/granules,
> > > some with oak cubes and some with oak staves) with a six month
> > > interval between each batch. *I have now racked the first batch 4
> > > times (since it entered the primary fermentation container) over the
> > > last 2 years. *It has been sitting in better bottles since and is
> > > looking, smelling and tasting quite good.
>
> > > I now plan to bottle the first batch faily soon (the subsequent two
> > > batches will follow at 6 month intervals). *I planned to rack a final
> > > time before bottling and am beginning to consider how much sulfite or
> > > campden tablets *(if any) I should add in this last rack - per 5 (UK)
> > > gallon batch. *I added some (I think a campden per gallon) at must
> > > stage and I think the same quantity again after about a year but I
> > > confess I have lost the paperwork. (I also have no access to sulfite
> > > tests that I know of).
>
> > > I invite suggestions of a suitable addition per 5 gallon batch to help
> > > this wine age. *The wine is medium heavy with dried elderberries and
> > > other fruit and I plan to age it in bottle at least a further year
> > > before drinking any more - it is still pretty tannic (as an ex-smoker
> > > and tannin lover that is perfect - I like that in a wine), but I would
> > > like the wine to survive at least a further 3 years in bottle after
> > > that - preferably more. *I plan to bottle some with high end colmated
> > > cork, some with natural cork and some with synthetic seals as an
> > > experiment unless anyone has definitive arguments for a single high
> > > quality and sourceable seal for my recycled bottles.
>
> > > Suggestions please and thank you
>
> Thanks very much for the advice. *I was planning to go all synthetic,
> but then I had so much counter advice bemoaning the problems of having
> a complete seal so I started to feel that maybe the best quality cork
> was the way forward. *Synthetic cork is far easier to source at a fair
> price here. *The best quality cork my most local wine-supplies store
> sells are colmated. *He said he trusts them far more than the natural
> cork he can stock.
>
> I tend to leave more ullage in bottles sealed synthetically as I have
> had problems at corking with the seal being so airtight that the cork
> pops back as the gas fights the compression! *I guess that's less of a
> problem than failed corks.
>
> Jim

On Dec 4, 1:30*pm, wrote:
> You need to degass the wine before bottling. The theory on wine in the
> bottle, as I understand it at least, is that the oxygen added at
> bottling should be the only oxygen added. There should be no
> "breathing" from the cork or you would never be able to keep wine for
> any length of time. Once bottled, no more oxygen should touch the
> wine. What you need to make sure tho, is that all fermentation is done
> and the wine is totally degassed.
>
> On Dec 3, 6:09*pm, jim c > wrote:
>
> > On Dec 3, 2:25*pm, wrote:
>
> > > It really all depends on the seal of the bottle. If you used screw
> > > tops, I would just sulfite at 1 campden per gallon and bottle being
> > > that no air would probably seep into the bottle, If your going to use
> > > corks , if it was my wine, *I *would use all synthetic corks and
> > > sulfite at 2 campden tablets per gallon.. That should give you 100ppm
> > > and the synthetic corks should keep a good seal. I wouldn't use real
> > > cork. Cork is only a tradition and there is no advantages of using it
> > > unless you want to impress your friends with the unexpected elderberry/
> > > blackberry sherry every once in a while.
>
> > > On Dec 2, 9:04*am, jim c > wrote:
>
> > > > Hi.
>
> > > > I made three batches (15 gallons each) of dried elderberry /
> > > > blackberry / summer fruits wine (some oaked with oak dust/granules,
> > > > some with oak cubes and some with oak staves) with a six month
> > > > interval between each batch. *I have now racked the first batch 4
> > > > times (since it entered the primary fermentation container) over the
> > > > last 2 years. *It has been sitting in better bottles since and is
> > > > looking, smelling and tasting quite good.
>
> > > > I now plan to bottle the first batch faily soon (the subsequent two
> > > > batches will follow at 6 month intervals). *I planned to rack a final
> > > > time before bottling and am beginning to consider how much sulfite or
> > > > campden tablets *(if any) I should add in this last rack - per 5 (UK)
> > > > gallon batch. *I added some (I think a campden per gallon) at must
> > > > stage and I think the same quantity again after about a year but I
> > > > confess I have lost the paperwork. (I also have no access to sulfite
> > > > tests that I know of).
>
> > > > I invite suggestions of a suitable addition per 5 gallon batch to help
> > > > this wine age. *The wine is medium heavy with dried elderberries and
> > > > other fruit and I plan to age it in bottle at least a further year
> > > > before drinking any more - it is still pretty tannic (as an ex-smoker
> > > > and tannin lover that is perfect - I like that in a wine), but I would
> > > > like the wine to survive at least a further 3 years in bottle after
> > > > that - preferably more. *I plan to bottle some with high end colmated
> > > > cork, some with natural cork and some with synthetic seals as an
> > > > experiment unless anyone has definitive arguments for a single high
> > > > quality and sourceable seal for my recycled bottles.
>
> > > > Suggestions please and thank you
>
> > Thanks very much for the advice. *I was planning to go all synthetic,
> > but then I had so much counter advice bemoaning the problems of having
> > a complete seal so I started to feel that maybe the best quality cork
> > was the way forward. *Synthetic cork is far easier to source at a fair
> > price here. *The best quality cork my most local wine-supplies store
> > sells are colmated. *He said he trusts them far more than the natural
> > cork he can stock.
>
> > I tend to leave more ullage in bottles sealed synthetically as I have
> > had problems at corking with the seal being so airtight that the cork
> > pops back as the gas fights the compression! *I guess that's less of a
> > problem than failed corks.
>
> > Jim

Sure, thanks. (in case I was ambiguous) the gas I referred to was
just the gas (air) above the wine - point taken on the need to degass
though...