Furmint Grape Vines Sought
 

I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint grape vines without
any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.

Thanks,

Paul

Furmint Grape Vines Sought
 

In article >,
"Pavel314" > wrote:

> I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint grape vines without
> any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul

http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm

Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting list.

You might give the University of California at Davis' viticulture
department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely someone
who could or has imported it).

If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best learn
about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white grapes
into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch rot) that is
responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

Furmint Grape Vines Sought
 

"Billy" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Pavel314" > wrote:
>
>> I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint grape vines
>> without
>> any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Paul
>
> http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm
>
> Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting list.
>
> You might give the University of California at Davis' viticulture
> department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely someone
> who could or has imported it).
>
> If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best learn
> about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white grapes
> into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch rot) that is
> responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.


Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is shipon, a
Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian, the "sh" sound
is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I don't have
that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to be available
everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't imported
anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.

Paul

Furmint Grape Vines Sought
 

In article >,
"Pavel314" > wrote:

> "Billy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Pavel314" > wrote:
> >
> >> I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint grape vines
> >> without
> >> any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Paul
> >
> > http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm
> >
> > Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting list.
> >
> > You might give the University of California at Davis' viticulture
> > department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely someone
> > who could or has imported it).
> >
> > If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best learn
> > about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white grapes
> > into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch rot) that is
> > responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.
>
>
> Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is shipon, a
> Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian, the "sh" sound
> is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I don't have
> that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to be available
> everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't imported
> anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.
>
> Paul

Does it have a varietal flavor or is it the structure (fruitiness, mouth
feel, tannins, ect.) of the wine that you like? If it was cheap, it will
have been tank fermented (either a lined concret tank or stainless). If
the weather is anything like Germany, the wines may be 6% to 11%
alcohol. I consider that consumer friendly. What did the one you have
taste like?
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

Furmint Grape Vines Sought
 

On Jul 3, 2:43*am, Billy > wrote:
> In article >,
>
>
>
> *"Pavel314" > wrote:
> > "Billy" > wrote in message
> ....
> > > In article >,
> > > "Pavel314" > wrote:
>
> > >> I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint grape vines
> > >> without
> > >> any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.
>
> > >> Thanks,
>
> > >> Paul
>
> > >http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm
>
> > > Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting list.
>
> > > You might give the University of California at Davis' viticulture
> > > department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely someone
> > > who could or has imported it).
>
> > > If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best learn
> > > about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white grapes
> > > into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch rot) that is
> > > responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.
>
> > Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is shipon, a
> > Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian, the "sh" sound
> > is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I don't have
> > that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to *be available
> > everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't imported
> > anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.
>
> > Paul
>
> Does it have a varietal flavor or is it the structure (fruitiness, mouth
> feel, tannins, ect.) of the wine that you like? If it was cheap, it will
> have been tank fermented (either a lined concret tank or stainless). If
> the weather is anything like Germany, the wines may be 6% to 11%
> alcohol. I consider that consumer friendly. What did the one you have
> taste like?
> --
>
> Billy
> Bush and Pelosi Behind Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related

Hi, I went to the KZ Goriska Brda - Dobrovo winery in Slovenia (which
is on the border with northern Italy) a couple of years ago as part of
my honeymoon ^_^. The climate is very close to that of mid northern
Italy.

I didn't try wine from the varietal you mention unfortunately, but
tried many wines from their range. I think they are the biggest
cellar or even producer in the country and used giant stainless steel
tanks first. Subsequently they ferment in Oak barrels for the
european market and in steel tanks with oak chippings for the US
market. The guide told me that the American market seems to prefer
the taste that way.

I know none of this helps the OP much, but I thought I'd chip in :)

Jim

Furmint Grape Vines Sought
 

"Billy" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Pavel314" > wrote:
>
>> "Billy" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > "Pavel314" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint grape vines
>> >> without
>> >> any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >>
>> >> Paul
>> >
>> > http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm
>> >
>> > Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting list.
>> >
>> > You might give the University of California at Davis' viticulture
>> > department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely someone
>> > who could or has imported it).
>> >
>> > If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best learn
>> > about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white grapes
>> > into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch rot) that is
>> > responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is shipon, a
>> Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian, the "sh"
>> sound
>> is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I don't have
>> that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to be
>> available
>> everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't imported
>> anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.
>>
>> Paul
>
> Does it have a varietal flavor or is it the structure (fruitiness, mouth
> feel, tannins, ect.) of the wine that you like? If it was cheap, it will
> have been tank fermented (either a lined concret tank or stainless). If
> the weather is anything like Germany, the wines may be 6% to 11%
> alcohol. I consider that consumer friendly. What did the one you have
> taste like?

After 30 years, I remember it as having spicy tones and being very crisp,
somewhat Gewurztraminer-ish. It was my favorite of the Slovenian varieties.
I picked up some more recent descriptions on the Web:

"It has a lively, fruity, almost peppery nose with some grapey depth to it.
The palate is really lively and fresh, with an exuberant fruity, spicy
character and a hint of spritz on the bright, acidic finish. This is a very
pure, clean, minerally white that's full flavoured but zippy, and would be a
versatile food wine. "

"The specialty of the area is Sipon: the must can achieve an outstanding
content of aromatic oils and sugar, while the acids are less aggressive."

I ordered the last seven bottles of Sipon in stock at Zachys in Scarsdale,
NY, yesterday. They may be the last seven bottles in the U.S. I'll post a
review when they arrive.

Paul

Furmint Grape Vines Sought
 

jim c wrote:
> On Jul 3, 2:43 am, Billy > wrote:
>> In article >,
>>
>>
>>
>> "Pavel314" > wrote:
>>> "Billy" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> In article >,
>>>> "Pavel314" > wrote:
>>>>> I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint grape vines
>>>>> without
>>>>> any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Paul
>>>> http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm
>>>> Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting list.
>>>> You might give the University of California at Davis' viticulture
>>>> department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely someone
>>>> who could or has imported it).
>>>> If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best learn
>>>> about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white grapes
>>>> into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch rot) that is
>>>> responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.
>>> Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is shipon, a
>>> Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian, the "sh" sound
>>> is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I don't have
>>> that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to be available
>>> everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't imported
>>> anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.
>>> Paul
>> Does it have a varietal flavor or is it the structure (fruitiness, mouth
>> feel, tannins, ect.) of the wine that you like? If it was cheap, it will
>> have been tank fermented (either a lined concret tank or stainless). If
>> the weather is anything like Germany, the wines may be 6% to 11%
>> alcohol. I consider that consumer friendly. What did the one you have
>> taste like?
>> --
>>
>> Billy
>> Bush and Pelosi Behind Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related
>
> Hi, I went to the KZ Goriska Brda - Dobrovo winery in Slovenia (which
> is on the border with northern Italy) a couple of years ago as part of
> my honeymoon ^_^. The climate is very close to that of mid northern
> Italy.
>
> I didn't try wine from the varietal you mention unfortunately, but
> tried many wines from their range. I think they are the biggest
> cellar or even producer in the country and used giant stainless steel
> tanks first. Subsequently they ferment in Oak barrels for the
> european market and in steel tanks with oak chippings for the US
> market. The guide told me that the American market seems to prefer
> the taste that way.
>
> I know none of this helps the OP much, but I thought I'd chip in :)
>
> Jim

I suppose a certain price point segment of the American market has
gotten used to the more intense 'raw' taste of oak chip wine.
I shudder that such an 'acquired taste' is now the preference for that
segment.

Gene

Furmint Grape Vines Sought
 

In article >,
gene > wrote:

> jim c wrote:
> > On Jul 3, 2:43 am, Billy > wrote:
> >> In article >,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "Pavel314" > wrote:
> >>> "Billy" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>> In article >,
> >>>> "Pavel314" > wrote:
> >>>>> I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint grape vines
> >>>>> without
> >>>>> any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>> Paul
> >>>> http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm
> >>>> Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting list.
> >>>> You might give the University of California at Davis' viticulture
> >>>> department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely someone
> >>>> who could or has imported it).
> >>>> If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best learn
> >>>> about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white grapes
> >>>> into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch rot) that is
> >>>> responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.
> >>> Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is shipon, a
> >>> Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian, the "sh"
> >>> sound
> >>> is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I don't have
> >>> that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to be
> >>> available
> >>> everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't imported
> >>> anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.
> >>> Paul
> >> Does it have a varietal flavor or is it the structure (fruitiness, mouth
> >> feel, tannins, ect.) of the wine that you like? If it was cheap, it will
> >> have been tank fermented (either a lined concret tank or stainless). If
> >> the weather is anything like Germany, the wines may be 6% to 11%
> >> alcohol. I consider that consumer friendly. What did the one you have
> >> taste like?
> >> --
> >>
> >> Billy
> >> Bush and Pelosi Behind
> >> Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www.yo
> >> utube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related
> >
> > Hi, I went to the KZ Goriska Brda - Dobrovo winery in Slovenia (which
> > is on the border with northern Italy) a couple of years ago as part of
> > my honeymoon ^_^. The climate is very close to that of mid northern
> > Italy.
> >
> > I didn't try wine from the varietal you mention unfortunately, but
> > tried many wines from their range. I think they are the biggest
> > cellar or even producer in the country and used giant stainless steel
> > tanks first. Subsequently they ferment in Oak barrels for the
> > european market and in steel tanks with oak chippings for the US
> > market. The guide told me that the American market seems to prefer
> > the taste that way.
> >
> > I know none of this helps the OP much, but I thought I'd chip in :)
> >
> > Jim
>
> I suppose a certain price point segment of the American market has
> gotten used to the more intense 'raw' taste of oak chip wine.
> I shudder that such an 'acquired taste' is now the preference for that
> segment.
>
> Gene

Most French and German wine sells for less than 5 euros ($7.50) or a
euro/liter at a co-op, in the country of origin. European oak barrels
cost $700 f.o.b. here in the US ($2.50/btl). Only the prestigious brands
can afford oak because otherwise if a small producer raises his/her
price by half a euro, the buyers will go to their neighbors to buy at
the old price.

Tank fermentation with oak chips isn't rare in this country either but
it is usually done with red wines. Usually, with white wines, one
doesn't want to obscure the fruit with oak. On the other hand, if the
wine doesn't have any fruit (poor fruit or practices), a little oak may
make the wine more interesting.
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

Furmint Grape Vines Sought
 

On Jul 3, 9:08 am, "Pavel314" > wrote:
> "Billy" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > In article >,
> > "Pavel314" > wrote:
>
> >> "Billy" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "Pavel314" > wrote:
>
> >> >> I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint grape vines
> >> >> without
> >> >> any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.
>
> >> >> Thanks,
>
> >> >> Paul
>
> >> >http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm
>
> >> > Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting list.
>
> >> > You might give the University of California at Davis' viticulture
> >> > department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely someone
> >> > who could or has imported it).
>
> >> > If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best learn
> >> > about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white grapes
> >> > into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch rot) that is
> >> > responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.
>
> >> Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is shipon, a
> >> Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian, the "sh"
> >> sound
> >> is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I don't have
> >> that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to be
> >> available
> >> everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't imported
> >> anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.
>
> >> Paul
>
> > Does it have a varietal flavor or is it the structure (fruitiness, mouth
> > feel, tannins, ect.) of the wine that you like? If it was cheap, it will
> > have been tank fermented (either a lined concret tank or stainless). If
> > the weather is anything like Germany, the wines may be 6% to 11%
> > alcohol. I consider that consumer friendly. What did the one you have
> > taste like?
>
> After 30 years, I remember it as having spicy tones and being very crisp,
> somewhat Gewurztraminer-ish. It was my favorite of the Slovenian varieties.
> I picked up some more recent descriptions on the Web:
>
> "It has a lively, fruity, almost peppery nose with some grapey depth to it.
> The palate is really lively and fresh, with an exuberant fruity, spicy
> character and a hint of spritz on the bright, acidic finish. This is a very
> pure, clean, minerally white that's full flavoured but zippy, and would be a
> versatile food wine. "
>
> "The specialty of the area is Sipon: the must can achieve an outstanding
> content of aromatic oils and sugar, while the acids are less aggressive."
>
> I ordered the last seven bottles of Sipon in stock at Zachys in Scarsdale,
> NY, yesterday. They may be the last seven bottles in the U.S. I'll post a
> review when they arrive.
>
> Paul

You could check with Cornell too but Traminette grows well here in the
Northeast and sounds very similar. It's my favorite local white.

Joe

Furmint Grape Vines Sought
 

In article
>,
Joe Sallustio > wrote:

> On Jul 3, 9:08 am, "Pavel314" > wrote:
> > "Billy" > wrote in message
> >
> > ...
> >
> >
> >
> > > In article >,
> > > "Pavel314" > wrote:
> >
> > >> "Billy" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >> > In article >,
> > >> > "Pavel314" > wrote:
> >
> > >> >> I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint grape vines
> > >> >> without
> > >> >> any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.
> >
> > >> >> Thanks,
> >
> > >> >> Paul
> >
> > >> >http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm
> >
> > >> > Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting list.
> >
> > >> > You might give the University of California at Davis' viticulture
> > >> > department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely someone
> > >> > who could or has imported it).
> >
> > >> > If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best learn
> > >> > about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white grapes
> > >> > into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch rot) that is
> > >> > responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.
> >
> > >> Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is shipon, a
> > >> Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian, the "sh"
> > >> sound
> > >> is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I don't have
> > >> that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to be
> > >> available
> > >> everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't imported
> > >> anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.
> >
> > >> Paul
> >
> > > Does it have a varietal flavor or is it the structure (fruitiness, mouth
> > > feel, tannins, ect.) of the wine that you like? If it was cheap, it will
> > > have been tank fermented (either a lined concret tank or stainless). If
> > > the weather is anything like Germany, the wines may be 6% to 11%
> > > alcohol. I consider that consumer friendly. What did the one you have
> > > taste like?
> >
> > After 30 years, I remember it as having spicy tones and being very crisp,
> > somewhat Gewurztraminer-ish. It was my favorite of the Slovenian varieties.
> > I picked up some more recent descriptions on the Web:
> >
> > "It has a lively, fruity, almost peppery nose with some grapey depth to it.
> > The palate is really lively and fresh, with an exuberant fruity, spicy
> > character and a hint of spritz on the bright, acidic finish. This is a very
> > pure, clean, minerally white that's full flavoured but zippy, and would be a
> > versatile food wine. "
> >
> > "The specialty of the area is Sipon: the must can achieve an outstanding
> > content of aromatic oils and sugar, while the acids are less aggressive."
> >
> > I ordered the last seven bottles of Sipon in stock at Zachys in Scarsdale,
> > NY, yesterday. They may be the last seven bottles in the U.S. I'll post a
> > review when they arrive.
> >
> > Paul
>
> You could check with Cornell too but Traminette grows well here in the
> Northeast and sounds very similar. It's my favorite local white.
>
> Joe

Traminette is a European hybrid (Joannes Seyve 23.416 x
'Gewürztraminer). It will be less good than a good gewürztraminer, which
can be exceptional, with distinctive aromas of rose oil.

I suspect that furmint is more like a good pinot grigio.
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

Furmint Grape Vines Sought
 

On Jul 3, 10:21*pm, Billy > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> *Joe Sallustio > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 3, 9:08 am, "Pavel314" > wrote:
> > > "Billy" > wrote in message
>
> > ...
>
> > > > In article >,
> > > > "Pavel314" > wrote:
>
> > > >> "Billy" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >> > In article >,
> > > >> > "Pavel314" > wrote:
>
> > > >> >> I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint grape vines
> > > >> >> without
> > > >> >> any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.
>
> > > >> >> Thanks,
>
> > > >> >> Paul
>
> > > >> >http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm
>
> > > >> > Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting list..
>
> > > >> > You might give the University of California at Davis' viticulture
> > > >> > department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely someone
> > > >> > who could or has imported it).
>
> > > >> > If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best learn
> > > >> > about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white grapes
> > > >> > into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch rot) that is
> > > >> > responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.
>
> > > >> Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is shipon, a
> > > >> Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian, the "sh"
> > > >> sound
> > > >> is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I don't have
> > > >> that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to *be
> > > >> available
> > > >> everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't imported
> > > >> anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.
>
> > > >> Paul
>
> > > > Does it have a varietal flavor or is it the structure (fruitiness, mouth
> > > > feel, tannins, ect.) of the wine that you like? If it was cheap, it will
> > > > have been tank fermented (either a lined concret tank or stainless).. If
> > > > the weather is anything like Germany, the wines may be 6% to 11%
> > > > alcohol. I consider that consumer friendly. What did the one you have
> > > > taste like?
>
> > > After 30 years, I remember it as having spicy tones and being very crisp,
> > > somewhat Gewurztraminer-ish. It was my favorite of the Slovenian varieties.
> > > I picked up some more recent descriptions on the Web:
>
> > > "It has a lively, fruity, almost peppery nose with some grapey depth to it.
> > > The palate is really lively and fresh, with an exuberant fruity, spicy
> > > character and a hint of spritz on the bright, acidic finish. This is a very
> > > pure, clean, minerally white that's full flavoured but zippy, and would be a
> > > versatile food wine. "
>
> > > "The specialty of the area is Sipon: the must can achieve an outstanding
> > > content of aromatic oils and sugar, while the acids are less aggressive."
>
> > > I ordered the last seven bottles of Sipon in stock at Zachys in Scarsdale,
> > > NY, yesterday. They may be the last seven bottles in the U.S. I'll post a
> > > review when they arrive.
>
> > > Paul
>
> > You could check with Cornell too but Traminette grows well here in the
> > Northeast and sounds very similar. *It's my favorite local white.
>
> > Joe
>
> Traminette is a European hybrid (Joannes Seyve 23.416 x
> 'Gewürztraminer). It will be less good than a good gewürztraminer, which
> can be exceptional, with distinctive aromas of rose oil. *
>
> I suspect that furmint is more like a good pinot grigio.
> --
>
> Billy
> Bush and Pelosi Behind Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Furmint Grape Vines Sought
 

Would you care to elaborate on you post?
Chateau.pp? With a name like that, you are going to need one hell of a
good lable;-)

In article
>,
pp > wrote:

> On Jul 3, 10:21*pm, Billy > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> > *Joe Sallustio > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jul 3, 9:08 am, "Pavel314" > wrote:
> > > > "Billy" > wrote in message
> >
> > > ..
> > > >.
> >
> > > > > In article >,
> > > > > "Pavel314" > wrote:
> >
> > > > >> "Billy" > wrote in message
> > > >
> > > > >>u...
> > > > >> > In article >,
> > > > >> > "Pavel314" > wrote:
> >
> > > > >> >> I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint grape
> > > > >> >> vines
> > > > >> >> without
> > > > >> >> any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.
> >
> > > > >> >> Thanks,
> >
> > > > >> >> Paul
> >
> > > > >> >http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm
> >
> > > > >> > Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting list.
> >
> > > > >> > You might give the University of California at Davis' viticulture
> > > > >> > department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely
> > > > >> > someone
> > > > >> > who could or has imported it).
> >
> > > > >> > If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best
> > > > >> > learn
> > > > >> > about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white
> > > > >> > grapes
> > > > >> > into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch rot)
> > > > >> > that is
> > > > >> > responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.
> >
> > > > >> Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is shipon,
> > > > >> a
> > > > >> Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian, the
> > > > >> "sh"
> > > > >> sound
> > > > >> is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I don't
> > > > >> have
> > > > >> that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to *be
> > > > >> available
> > > > >> everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't
> > > > >> imported
> > > > >> anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.
> >
> > > > >> Paul
> >
> > > > > Does it have a varietal flavor or is it the structure (fruitiness,
> > > > > mouth
> > > > > feel, tannins, ect.) of the wine that you like? If it was cheap, it
> > > > > will
> > > > > have been tank fermented (either a lined concret tank or stainless).
> > > > > If
> > > > > the weather is anything like Germany, the wines may be 6% to 11%
> > > > > alcohol. I consider that consumer friendly. What did the one you have
> > > > > taste like?
> >
> > > > After 30 years, I remember it as having spicy tones and being very
> > > > crisp,
> > > > somewhat Gewurztraminer-ish. It was my favorite of the Slovenian
> > > > varieties.
> > > > I picked up some more recent descriptions on the Web:
> >
> > > > "It has a lively, fruity, almost peppery nose with some grapey depth to
> > > > it.
> > > > The palate is really lively and fresh, with an exuberant fruity, spicy
> > > > character and a hint of spritz on the bright, acidic finish. This is a
> > > > very
> > > > pure, clean, minerally white that's full flavoured but zippy, and would
> > > > be a
> > > > versatile food wine. "
> >
> > > > "The specialty of the area is Sipon: the must can achieve an
> > > > outstanding
> > > > content of aromatic oils and sugar, while the acids are less
> > > > aggressive."
> >
> > > > I ordered the last seven bottles of Sipon in stock at Zachys in
> > > > Scarsdale,
> > > > NY, yesterday. They may be the last seven bottles in the U.S. I'll post
> > > > a
> > > > review when they arrive.
> >
> > > > Paul
> >
> > > You could check with Cornell too but Traminette grows well here in the
> > > Northeast and sounds very similar. *It's my favorite local white.
> >
> > > Joe
> >
> > Traminette is a European hybrid (Joannes Seyve 23.416 x
> > 'Gewürztraminer). It will be less good than a good gewürztraminer, which
> > can be exceptional, with distinctive aromas of rose oil. *
> >
> > I suspect that furmint is more like a good pinot grigio.
> > --
> >
> > Billy
> > Bush and Pelosi Behind
> > Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www.you
> > tube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

Furmint Grape Vines Sought
 

On Jul 3, 3:07*pm, gene > wrote:
> jim c wrote:
> > On Jul 3, 2:43 am, Billy > wrote:
> >> In article >,
>
> >> *"Pavel314" > wrote:
> >>> "Billy" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>> In article >,
> >>>> "Pavel314" > wrote:
> >>>>> I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint grape vines
> >>>>> without
> >>>>> any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>> Paul
> >>>>http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm
> >>>> Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting list.
> >>>> You might give the University of California at Davis' viticulture
> >>>> department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely someone
> >>>> who could or has imported it).
> >>>> If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best learn
> >>>> about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white grapes
> >>>> into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch rot) that is
> >>>> responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.
> >>> Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is shipon, a
> >>> Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian, the "sh" sound
> >>> is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I don't have
> >>> that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to *be available
> >>> everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't imported
> >>> anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.
> >>> Paul
> >> Does it have a varietal flavor or is it the structure (fruitiness, mouth
> >> feel, tannins, ect.) of the wine that you like? If it was cheap, it will
> >> have been tank fermented (either a lined concret tank or stainless). If
> >> the weather is anything like Germany, the wines may be 6% to 11%
> >> alcohol. I consider that consumer friendly. What did the one you have
> >> taste like?
> >> --
>
> >> Billy
> >> Bush and Pelosi Behind Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www....
>
> > Hi, I went to the KZ Goriska Brda - Dobrovo winery in Slovenia (which
> > is on the border with northern Italy) a couple of years ago as part of
> > my honeymoon ^_^. *The climate is very close to that of mid northern
> > Italy.
>
> > I didn't try wine from the varietal you mention unfortunately, but
> > tried many wines from their range. *I think they are the biggest
> > cellar or even producer in the country and used giant stainless steel
> > tanks first. *Subsequently they ferment in Oak barrels for the
> > european market and in steel tanks with oak chippings for the US
> > market. *The guide told me that the American market seems to prefer
> > the taste that way.
>
> > I know none of this helps the OP much, but I thought I'd chip in :)
>
> > Jim
>
> I suppose a certain price point segment of the American market has
> gotten used to the more intense 'raw' taste of oak chip wine.
> I shudder that such an 'acquired taste' is now the preference for that
> segment.
>
> Gene

I must admit I like really bold oak flavours and I am too philistine
to mind how it got there. I am a wine noob, I have to add...

Furmint Grape Vines Sought
 

On Jul 3, 3:07*pm, gene > wrote:
> jim c wrote:
> > On Jul 3, 2:43 am, Billy > wrote:
> >> In article >,
>
> >> *"Pavel314" > wrote:
> >>> "Billy" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>> In article >,
> >>>> "Pavel314" > wrote:
> >>>>> I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint grape vines
> >>>>> without
> >>>>> any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>> Paul
> >>>>http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm
> >>>> Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting list.
> >>>> You might give the University of California at Davis' viticulture
> >>>> department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely someone
> >>>> who could or has imported it).
> >>>> If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best learn
> >>>> about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white grapes
> >>>> into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch rot) that is
> >>>> responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.
> >>> Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is shipon, a
> >>> Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian, the "sh" sound
> >>> is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I don't have
> >>> that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to *be available
> >>> everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't imported
> >>> anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.
> >>> Paul
> >> Does it have a varietal flavor or is it the structure (fruitiness, mouth
> >> feel, tannins, ect.) of the wine that you like? If it was cheap, it will
> >> have been tank fermented (either a lined concret tank or stainless). If
> >> the weather is anything like Germany, the wines may be 6% to 11%
> >> alcohol. I consider that consumer friendly. What did the one you have
> >> taste like?
> >> --
>
> >> Billy
> >> Bush and Pelosi Behind Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www....
>
> > Hi, I went to the KZ Goriska Brda - Dobrovo winery in Slovenia (which
> > is on the border with northern Italy) a couple of years ago as part of
> > my honeymoon ^_^. *The climate is very close to that of mid northern
> > Italy.
>
> > I didn't try wine from the varietal you mention unfortunately, but
> > tried many wines from their range. *I think they are the biggest
> > cellar or even producer in the country and used giant stainless steel
> > tanks first. *Subsequently they ferment in Oak barrels for the
> > european market and in steel tanks with oak chippings for the US
> > market. *The guide told me that the American market seems to prefer
> > the taste that way.
>
> > I know none of this helps the OP much, but I thought I'd chip in :)
>
> > Jim
>
> I suppose a certain price point segment of the American market has
> gotten used to the more intense 'raw' taste of oak chip wine.
> I shudder that such an 'acquired taste' is now the preference for that
> segment.
>
> Gene

Sorry, I meant to add that the flavour of the wine was the selling
point that they felt they were fulfiling rather than the price (I did
ask). But, I can see where you are coming from I think. If the
preference is nurtured then the price point is established...

Furmint Grape Vines Sought
 

In article
>,
jim c > wrote:

> On Jul 3, 3:07*pm, gene > wrote:
> > jim c wrote:
> > > On Jul 3, 2:43 am, Billy > wrote:
> > >> In article >,
> >
> > >> *"Pavel314" > wrote:
> > >>> "Billy" > wrote in message
> > ..
> > >>>.
> > >>>> In article >,
> > >>>> "Pavel314" > wrote:
> > >>>>> I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint grape vines
> > >>>>> without
> > >>>>> any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.
> > >>>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>> Paul
> > >>>>http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm
> > >>>> Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting list.
> > >>>> You might give the University of California at Davis' viticulture
> > >>>> department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely someone
> > >>>> who could or has imported it).
> > >>>> If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best learn
> > >>>> about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white grapes
> > >>>> into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch rot) that
> > >>>> is
> > >>>> responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.
> > >>> Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is shipon, a
> > >>> Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian, the "sh"
> > >>> sound
> > >>> is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I don't
> > >>> have
> > >>> that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to *be
> > >>> available
> > >>> everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't
> > >>> imported
> > >>> anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.
> > >>> Paul
> > >> Does it have a varietal flavor or is it the structure (fruitiness, mouth
> > >> feel, tannins, ect.) of the wine that you like? If it was cheap, it will
> > >> have been tank fermented (either a lined concret tank or stainless). If
> > >> the weather is anything like Germany, the wines may be 6% to 11%
> > >> alcohol. I consider that consumer friendly. What did the one you have
> > >> taste like?
> > >> --
> >
> > >> Billy
> > >> Bush and Pelosi Behind
> > >> Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www.
> > >> ...
> >
> > > Hi, I went to the KZ Goriska Brda - Dobrovo winery in Slovenia (which
> > > is on the border with northern Italy) a couple of years ago as part of
> > > my honeymoon ^_^. *The climate is very close to that of mid northern
> > > Italy.
> >
> > > I didn't try wine from the varietal you mention unfortunately, but
> > > tried many wines from their range. *I think they are the biggest
> > > cellar or even producer in the country and used giant stainless steel
> > > tanks first. *Subsequently they ferment in Oak barrels for the
> > > european market and in steel tanks with oak chippings for the US
> > > market. *The guide told me that the American market seems to prefer
> > > the taste that way.
> >
> > > I know none of this helps the OP much, but I thought I'd chip in :)
> >
> > > Jim
> >
> > I suppose a certain price point segment of the American market has
> > gotten used to the more intense 'raw' taste of oak chip wine.
> > I shudder that such an 'acquired taste' is now the preference for that
> > segment.
> >
> > Gene
>
> Sorry, I meant to add that the flavour of the wine was the selling
> point that they felt they were fulfiling rather than the price (I did
> ask). But, I can see where you are coming from I think. If the
> preference is nurtured then the price point is established...

Now I am confused as to what you are trying to say.
By and large, chardonnay is the only white wine fermented in oak
barrels. The Germans sometimes ferment in large oak casks in which,
because of age and lack of sufficient surface area, they leave no flavor
in the wine. It makes no since for an inexpensive wine to be fermented
in oak, especially when it is a white wine, whose selling point is its'
fruitiness.

The taste preference has probably been established since the Roman
occupation. For conspicuous consumption a Slav would probably go for a
French, German, Italian, American, or Australian wine.
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

Furmint Grape Vines Sought
 

I was going to make a joke but pressed the Send button by accident. It
wasn't that funny so didn't seem worth the trouble trying again. Or
you could accept it as a zen contribution to the discussion.

As for the label... yes, it's a pretty good one. And what's inside is
even better ;-)

Pp

On Jul 4, 11:02*am, Billy > wrote:
> Would you care to elaborate on you post?
> Chateau.pp? With a name like that, you are going to need one hell of a
> good lable;-)
>
> In article
> >,
>
>
>
>
>
> *pp > wrote:
> > On Jul 3, 10:21*pm, Billy > wrote:
> > > In article
> > > >,
> > > *Joe Sallustio > wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 3, 9:08 am, "Pavel314" > wrote:
> > > > > "Billy" > wrote in message
>
> > > > ..
> > > > >.
>
> > > > > > In article >,
> > > > > > "Pavel314" > wrote:
>
> > > > > >> "Billy" > wrote in message
> > > > >
> > > > > >>u...
> > > > > >> > In article >,
> > > > > >> > "Pavel314" > wrote:
>
> > > > > >> >> I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint grape
> > > > > >> >> vines
> > > > > >> >> without
> > > > > >> >> any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.
>
> > > > > >> >> Thanks,
>
> > > > > >> >> Paul
>
> > > > > >> >http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm
>
> > > > > >> > Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting list.
>
> > > > > >> > You might give the University of California at Davis' viticulture
> > > > > >> > department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely
> > > > > >> > someone
> > > > > >> > who could or has imported it).
>
> > > > > >> > If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best
> > > > > >> > learn
> > > > > >> > about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white
> > > > > >> > grapes
> > > > > >> > into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch rot)
> > > > > >> > that is
> > > > > >> > responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.
>
> > > > > >> Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is shipon,
> > > > > >> a
> > > > > >> Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian, the
> > > > > >> "sh"
> > > > > >> sound
> > > > > >> is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I don't
> > > > > >> have
> > > > > >> that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to *be
> > > > > >> available
> > > > > >> everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't
> > > > > >> imported
> > > > > >> anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.
>
> > > > > >> Paul
>
> > > > > > Does it have a varietal flavor or is it the structure (fruitiness,
> > > > > > mouth
> > > > > > feel, tannins, ect.) of the wine that you like? If it was cheap, it
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > have been tank fermented (either a lined concret tank or stainless).
> > > > > > If
> > > > > > the weather is anything like Germany, the wines may be 6% to 11%
> > > > > > alcohol. I consider that consumer friendly. What did the one you have
> > > > > > taste like?
>
> > > > > After 30 years, I remember it as having spicy tones and being very
> > > > > crisp,
> > > > > somewhat Gewurztraminer-ish. It was my favorite of the Slovenian
> > > > > varieties.
> > > > > I picked up some more recent descriptions on the Web:
>
> > > > > "It has a lively, fruity, almost peppery nose with some grapey depth to
> > > > > it.
> > > > > The palate is really lively and fresh, with an exuberant fruity, spicy
> > > > > character and a hint of spritz on the bright, acidic finish. This is a
> > > > > very
> > > > > pure, clean, minerally white that's full flavoured but zippy, and would
> > > > > be a
> > > > > versatile food wine. "
>
> > > > > "The specialty of the area is Sipon: the must can achieve an
> > > > > outstanding
> > > > > content of aromatic oils and sugar, while the acids are less
> > > > > aggressive."
>
> > > > > I ordered the last seven bottles of Sipon in stock at Zachys in
> > > > > Scarsdale,
> > > > > NY, yesterday. They may be the last seven bottles in the U.S. I'll post
> > > > > a
> > > > > review when they arrive.
>
> > > > > Paul
>
> > > > You could check with Cornell too but Traminette grows well here in the
> > > > Northeast and sounds very similar. *It's my favorite local white.
>
> > > > Joe
>
> > > Traminette is a European hybrid (Joannes Seyve 23.416 x
> > > 'Gewürztraminer). It will be less good than a good gewürztraminer, which
> > > can be exceptional, with distinctive aromas of rose oil. *
>
> > > I suspect that furmint is more like a good pinot grigio.
> > > --
>
> > > Billy
> > > Bush and Pelosi Behind
> > > Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www.you
> > > tube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> --
>
> Billy
> Bush and Pelosi Behind Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Furmint Grape Vines Sought
 

On Jul 4, 1:21*am, Billy > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> *Joe Sallustio > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 3, 9:08 am, "Pavel314" > wrote:
> > > "Billy" > wrote in message
>
> > ...
>
> > > > In article >,
> > > > "Pavel314" > wrote:
>
> > > >> "Billy" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >> > In article >,
> > > >> > "Pavel314" > wrote:
>
> > > >> >> I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint grape vines
> > > >> >> without
> > > >> >> any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.
>
> > > >> >> Thanks,
>
> > > >> >> Paul
>
> > > >> >http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm
>
> > > >> > Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting list..
>
> > > >> > You might give the University of California at Davis' viticulture
> > > >> > department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely someone
> > > >> > who could or has imported it).
>
> > > >> > If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best learn
> > > >> > about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white grapes
> > > >> > into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch rot) that is
> > > >> > responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.
>
> > > >> Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is shipon, a
> > > >> Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian, the "sh"
> > > >> sound
> > > >> is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I don't have
> > > >> that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to *be
> > > >> available
> > > >> everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't imported
> > > >> anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.
>
> > > >> Paul
>
> > > > Does it have a varietal flavor or is it the structure (fruitiness, mouth
> > > > feel, tannins, ect.) of the wine that you like? If it was cheap, it will
> > > > have been tank fermented (either a lined concret tank or stainless).. If
> > > > the weather is anything like Germany, the wines may be 6% to 11%
> > > > alcohol. I consider that consumer friendly. What did the one you have
> > > > taste like?
>
> > > After 30 years, I remember it as having spicy tones and being very crisp,
> > > somewhat Gewurztraminer-ish. It was my favorite of the Slovenian varieties.
> > > I picked up some more recent descriptions on the Web:
>
> > > "It has a lively, fruity, almost peppery nose with some grapey depth to it.
> > > The palate is really lively and fresh, with an exuberant fruity, spicy
> > > character and a hint of spritz on the bright, acidic finish. This is a very
> > > pure, clean, minerally white that's full flavoured but zippy, and would be a
> > > versatile food wine. "
>
> > > "The specialty of the area is Sipon: the must can achieve an outstanding
> > > content of aromatic oils and sugar, while the acids are less aggressive."
>
> > > I ordered the last seven bottles of Sipon in stock at Zachys in Scarsdale,
> > > NY, yesterday. They may be the last seven bottles in the U.S. I'll post a
> > > review when they arrive.
>
> > > Paul
>
> > You could check with Cornell too but Traminette grows well here in the
> > Northeast and sounds very similar. *It's my favorite local white.
>
> > Joe
>
> Traminette is a European hybrid (Joannes Seyve 23.416 x
> 'Gewürztraminer). It will be less good than a good gewürztraminer, which
> can be exceptional, with distinctive aromas of rose oil. *
>
> I suspect that furmint is more like a good pinot grigio.
> --
>
> Billy
> Bush and Pelosi Behind Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I make all of those from Northeastern US grapes and the Traminette is
by far the best when it comes to nose and spice notes. I get most of
this from near Fredonia which isn't too awful far from Cleveland. The
seller (Walkers) does buy in grapes from all over the northeast but
these are grown locally as I understand it. The Pinot Grigio could be
overcropped but all I can tell you is it wasn't even on a par with a
well made Chenin Blanc, it's just mediocre, not bad, not good. The
Gewurz has a very pronounce grapefruit note that I really don't care
for. The Traminette has come out like a nice Gewurz each time I made
it. I make these dry so they show the flaws. I may blend the Gewurz
or sweeten it to see how that turns out. I gave up on the pinot
grigio last year...

Once you plant it takes a couple years to see where things end up,I
was just speaking to the local region, not the variety in general.

Joe

Joe

Furmint Grape Vines Sought
 

In article
>,
Joe Sallustio > wrote:

> On Jul 4, 1:21*am, Billy > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> > *Joe Sallustio > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jul 3, 9:08 am, "Pavel314" > wrote:
> > > > "Billy" > wrote in message
> >
> > > ..
> > > >.
> >
> > > > > In article >,
> > > > > "Pavel314" > wrote:
> >
> > > > >> "Billy" > wrote in message
> > > >
> > > > >>u...
> > > > >> > In article >,
> > > > >> > "Pavel314" > wrote:
> >
> > > > >> >> I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint grape
> > > > >> >> vines
> > > > >> >> without
> > > > >> >> any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.
> >
> > > > >> >> Thanks,
> >
> > > > >> >> Paul
> >
> > > > >> >http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm
> >
> > > > >> > Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting list.
> >
> > > > >> > You might give the University of California at Davis' viticulture
> > > > >> > department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely
> > > > >> > someone
> > > > >> > who could or has imported it).
> >
> > > > >> > If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best
> > > > >> > learn
> > > > >> > about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white
> > > > >> > grapes
> > > > >> > into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch rot)
> > > > >> > that is
> > > > >> > responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.
> >
> > > > >> Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is shipon,
> > > > >> a
> > > > >> Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian, the
> > > > >> "sh"
> > > > >> sound
> > > > >> is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I don't
> > > > >> have
> > > > >> that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to *be
> > > > >> available
> > > > >> everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't
> > > > >> imported
> > > > >> anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.
> >
> > > > >> Paul
> >
> > > > > Does it have a varietal flavor or is it the structure (fruitiness,
> > > > > mouth
> > > > > feel, tannins, ect.) of the wine that you like? If it was cheap, it
> > > > > will
> > > > > have been tank fermented (either a lined concret tank or stainless).
> > > > > If
> > > > > the weather is anything like Germany, the wines may be 6% to 11%
> > > > > alcohol. I consider that consumer friendly. What did the one you have
> > > > > taste like?
> >
> > > > After 30 years, I remember it as having spicy tones and being very
> > > > crisp,
> > > > somewhat Gewurztraminer-ish. It was my favorite of the Slovenian
> > > > varieties.
> > > > I picked up some more recent descriptions on the Web:
> >
> > > > "It has a lively, fruity, almost peppery nose with some grapey depth to
> > > > it.
> > > > The palate is really lively and fresh, with an exuberant fruity, spicy
> > > > character and a hint of spritz on the bright, acidic finish. This is a
> > > > very
> > > > pure, clean, minerally white that's full flavoured but zippy, and would
> > > > be a
> > > > versatile food wine. "
> >
> > > > "The specialty of the area is Sipon: the must can achieve an
> > > > outstanding
> > > > content of aromatic oils and sugar, while the acids are less
> > > > aggressive."
> >
> > > > I ordered the last seven bottles of Sipon in stock at Zachys in
> > > > Scarsdale,
> > > > NY, yesterday. They may be the last seven bottles in the U.S. I'll post
> > > > a
> > > > review when they arrive.
> >
> > > > Paul
> >
> > > You could check with Cornell too but Traminette grows well here in the
> > > Northeast and sounds very similar. *It's my favorite local white.
> >
> > > Joe
> >
> > Traminette is a European hybrid (Joannes Seyve 23.416 x
> > 'Gewürztraminer). It will be less good than a good gewürztraminer, which
> > can be exceptional, with distinctive aromas of rose oil. *
> >
> > I suspect that furmint is more like a good pinot grigio.
> > --
> >
> > Billy
> > Bush and Pelosi Behind
> > Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www.you
> > tube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I make all of those from Northeastern US grapes and the Traminette is
> by far the best when it comes to nose and spice notes. I get most of
> this from near Fredonia which isn't too awful far from Cleveland. The
> seller (Walkers) does buy in grapes from all over the northeast but
> these are grown locally as I understand it. The Pinot Grigio could be
> overcropped but all I can tell you is it wasn't even on a par with a
> well made Chenin Blanc, it's just mediocre, not bad, not good. The
> Gewurz has a very pronounce grapefruit note that I really don't care
> for. The Traminette has come out like a nice Gewurz each time I made
> it. I make these dry so they show the flaws. I may blend the Gewurz
> or sweeten it to see how that turns out. I gave up on the pinot
> grigio last year...
>
> Once you plant it takes a couple years to see where things end up,I
> was just speaking to the local region, not the variety in general.
>
> Joe

Great fun Joe. It has always amazed me how easy wine is to make.
You fermenting in 5 gal glass bottles or barrels? Used to be that white
grapes were ready at 21 to 23 brix and reds at 22 to 24 and a total acid
of about .7% but these days everybody is making wine for Robert Parker
which means soft, high alcohol wines that are picked at 24 to 28 brix.
This is a good time of year to have a cellar full of cool white wine.
It's a 101F outside as I type. It's no good for grapes, all they can do
in this heat is pump water for evaporative cooling. No energy for
ripening grapes.

To your health.
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

Furmint Grape Vines Sought
 

In article
>,
Joe Sallustio > wrote:

> The Traminette has come out like a nice Gewurz each time I made
> it. I make these dry so they show the flaws.

Dry is how the Alsatians do it and it goes really well with quiche or
tarte flambée.
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

Furmint Grape Vines Sought
 

On Jul 8, 7:08 pm, Billy > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> Joe Sallustio > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 4, 1:21 am, Billy > wrote:
> > > In article
> > > >,
> > > Joe Sallustio > wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 3, 9:08 am, "Pavel314" > wrote:
> > > > > "Billy" > wrote in message
>
> > > > ..
> > > > >.
>
> > > > > > In article >,
> > > > > > "Pavel314" > wrote:
>
> > > > > >> "Billy" > wrote in message
> > > > >
> > > > > >>u...
> > > > > >> > In article >,
> > > > > >> > "Pavel314" > wrote:
>
> > > > > >> >> I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint grape
> > > > > >> >> vines
> > > > > >> >> without
> > > > > >> >> any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.
>
> > > > > >> >> Thanks,
>
> > > > > >> >> Paul
>
> > > > > >> >http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm
>
> > > > > >> > Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting list.
>
> > > > > >> > You might give the University of California at Davis' viticulture
> > > > > >> > department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely
> > > > > >> > someone
> > > > > >> > who could or has imported it).
>
> > > > > >> > If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best
> > > > > >> > learn
> > > > > >> > about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white
> > > > > >> > grapes
> > > > > >> > into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch rot)
> > > > > >> > that is
> > > > > >> > responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.
>
> > > > > >> Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is shipon,
> > > > > >> a
> > > > > >> Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian, the
> > > > > >> "sh"
> > > > > >> sound
> > > > > >> is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I don't
> > > > > >> have
> > > > > >> that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to be
> > > > > >> available
> > > > > >> everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't
> > > > > >> imported
> > > > > >> anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.
>
> > > > > >> Paul
>
> > > > > > Does it have a varietal flavor or is it the structure (fruitiness,
> > > > > > mouth
> > > > > > feel, tannins, ect.) of the wine that you like? If it was cheap, it
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > have been tank fermented (either a lined concret tank or stainless).
> > > > > > If
> > > > > > the weather is anything like Germany, the wines may be 6% to 11%
> > > > > > alcohol. I consider that consumer friendly. What did the one you have
> > > > > > taste like?
>
> > > > > After 30 years, I remember it as having spicy tones and being very
> > > > > crisp,
> > > > > somewhat Gewurztraminer-ish. It was my favorite of the Slovenian
> > > > > varieties.
> > > > > I picked up some more recent descriptions on the Web:
>
> > > > > "It has a lively, fruity, almost peppery nose with some grapey depth to
> > > > > it.
> > > > > The palate is really lively and fresh, with an exuberant fruity, spicy
> > > > > character and a hint of spritz on the bright, acidic finish. This is a
> > > > > very
> > > > > pure, clean, minerally white that's full flavoured but zippy, and would
> > > > > be a
> > > > > versatile food wine. "
>
> > > > > "The specialty of the area is Sipon: the must can achieve an
> > > > > outstanding
> > > > > content of aromatic oils and sugar, while the acids are less
> > > > > aggressive."
>
> > > > > I ordered the last seven bottles of Sipon in stock at Zachys in
> > > > > Scarsdale,
> > > > > NY, yesterday. They may be the last seven bottles in the U.S. I'll post
> > > > > a
> > > > > review when they arrive.
>
> > > > > Paul
>
> > > > You could check with Cornell too but Traminette grows well here in the
> > > > Northeast and sounds very similar. It's my favorite local white.
>
> > > > Joe
>
> > > Traminette is a European hybrid (Joannes Seyve 23.416 x
> > > 'Gewürztraminer). It will be less good than a good gewürztraminer, which
> > > can be exceptional, with distinctive aromas of rose oil.
>
> > > I suspect that furmint is more like a good pinot grigio.
> > > --
>
> > > Billy
> > > Bush and Pelosi Behind
> > > Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www.you
> > > tube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > I make all of those from Northeastern US grapes and the Traminette is
> > by far the best when it comes to nose and spice notes. I get most of
> > this from near Fredonia which isn't too awful far from Cleveland. The
> > seller (Walkers) does buy in grapes from all over the northeast but
> > these are grown locally as I understand it. The Pinot Grigio could be
> > overcropped but all I can tell you is it wasn't even on a par with a
> > well made Chenin Blanc, it's just mediocre, not bad, not good. The
> > Gewurz has a very pronounce grapefruit note that I really don't care
> > for. The Traminette has come out like a nice Gewurz each time I made
> > it. I make these dry so they show the flaws. I may blend the Gewurz
> > or sweeten it to see how that turns out. I gave up on the pinot
> > grigio last year...
>
> > Once you plant it takes a couple years to see where things end up,I
> > was just speaking to the local region, not the variety in general.
>
> > Joe
>
> Great fun Joe. It has always amazed me how easy wine is to make.
> You fermenting in 5 gal glass bottles or barrels? Used to be that white
> grapes were ready at 21 to 23 brix and reds at 22 to 24 and a total acid
> of about .7% but these days everybody is making wine for Robert Parker
> which means soft, high alcohol wines that are picked at 24 to 28 brix.
> This is a good time of year to have a cellar full of cool white wine.
> It's a 101F outside as I type. It's no good for grapes, all they can do
> in this heat is pump water for evaporative cooling. No energy for
> ripening grapes.
>
> To your health.
> --
>
> Billy
> Bush and Pelosi Behind Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related

Billy,
I use carboys and demijohns and usually ferment with heavy toast oak
chips or cubes. I don't understand the higher alcohol trend, balance
is balance. I have never made a wine over 14% ABV that didn't taste
hot; I just don't care for them. I have had a nice old vine Zin that
high but I didn't make it, my grapes aren't of that caliber.

Joe

Furmint Grape Vines Sought
 

In article
>,
Joe Sallustio > wrote:

> On Jul 8, 7:08 pm, Billy > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> > Joe Sallustio > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jul 4, 1:21 am, Billy > wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > >,
> > > > Joe Sallustio > wrote:
> >
> > > > > On Jul 3, 9:08 am, "Pavel314" > wrote:
> > > > > > "Billy" > wrote in message
> >
> > > > > .
> > > > > >au..
> > > > > >.
> >
> > > > > > > In article >,
> > > > > > > "Pavel314" > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > >> "Billy" > wrote in message
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >>et.a
> > > > > > >>u...
> > > > > > >> > In article >,
> > > > > > >> > "Pavel314" > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > >> >> I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint
> > > > > > >> >> grape
> > > > > > >> >> vines
> > > > > > >> >> without
> > > > > > >> >> any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.
> >
> > > > > > >> >> Thanks,
> >
> > > > > > >> >> Paul
> >
> > > > > > >> >http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm
> >
> > > > > > >> > Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting
> > > > > > >> > list.
> >
> > > > > > >> > You might give the University of California at Davis'
> > > > > > >> > viticulture
> > > > > > >> > department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely
> > > > > > >> > someone
> > > > > > >> > who could or has imported it).
> >
> > > > > > >> > If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best
> > > > > > >> > learn
> > > > > > >> > about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white
> > > > > > >> > grapes
> > > > > > >> > into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch
> > > > > > >> > rot)
> > > > > > >> > that is
> > > > > > >> > responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.
> >
> > > > > > >> Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is
> > > > > > >> shipon,
> > > > > > >> a
> > > > > > >> Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian,
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > >> "sh"
> > > > > > >> sound
> > > > > > >> is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I
> > > > > > >> don't
> > > > > > >> have
> > > > > > >> that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to be
> > > > > > >> available
> > > > > > >> everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't
> > > > > > >> imported
> > > > > > >> anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.
> >
> > > > > > >> Paul
> >
> > > > > > > Does it have a varietal flavor or is it the structure
> > > > > > > (fruitiness,
> > > > > > > mouth
> > > > > > > feel, tannins, ect.) of the wine that you like? If it was cheap,
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > have been tank fermented (either a lined concret tank or
> > > > > > > stainless).
> > > > > > > If
> > > > > > > the weather is anything like Germany, the wines may be 6% to 11%
> > > > > > > alcohol. I consider that consumer friendly. What did the one you
> > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > taste like?
> >
> > > > > > After 30 years, I remember it as having spicy tones and being very
> > > > > > crisp,
> > > > > > somewhat Gewurztraminer-ish. It was my favorite of the Slovenian
> > > > > > varieties.
> > > > > > I picked up some more recent descriptions on the Web:
> >
> > > > > > "It has a lively, fruity, almost peppery nose with some grapey
> > > > > > depth to
> > > > > > it.
> > > > > > The palate is really lively and fresh, with an exuberant fruity,
> > > > > > spicy
> > > > > > character and a hint of spritz on the bright, acidic finish. This
> > > > > > is a
> > > > > > very
> > > > > > pure, clean, minerally white that's full flavoured but zippy, and
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > be a
> > > > > > versatile food wine. "
> >
> > > > > > "The specialty of the area is Sipon: the must can achieve an
> > > > > > outstanding
> > > > > > content of aromatic oils and sugar, while the acids are less
> > > > > > aggressive."
> >
> > > > > > I ordered the last seven bottles of Sipon in stock at Zachys in
> > > > > > Scarsdale,
> > > > > > NY, yesterday. They may be the last seven bottles in the U.S. I'll
> > > > > > post
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > review when they arrive.
> >
> > > > > > Paul
> >
> > > > > You could check with Cornell too but Traminette grows well here in
> > > > > the
> > > > > Northeast and sounds very similar. It's my favorite local white.
> >
> > > > > Joe
> >
> > > > Traminette is a European hybrid (Joannes Seyve 23.416 x
> > > > 'Gewürztraminer). It will be less good than a good gewürztraminer,
> > > > which
> > > > can be exceptional, with distinctive aromas of rose oil.
> >
> > > > I suspect that furmint is more like a good pinot grigio.
> > > > --
> >
> > > > Billy
> > > > Bush and Pelosi Behind
> > > > Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www
> > > > .you
> > > > tube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > > > - Show quoted text -
> >
> > > I make all of those from Northeastern US grapes and the Traminette is
> > > by far the best when it comes to nose and spice notes. I get most of
> > > this from near Fredonia which isn't too awful far from Cleveland. The
> > > seller (Walkers) does buy in grapes from all over the northeast but
> > > these are grown locally as I understand it. The Pinot Grigio could be
> > > overcropped but all I can tell you is it wasn't even on a par with a
> > > well made Chenin Blanc, it's just mediocre, not bad, not good. The
> > > Gewurz has a very pronounce grapefruit note that I really don't care
> > > for. The Traminette has come out like a nice Gewurz each time I made
> > > it. I make these dry so they show the flaws. I may blend the Gewurz
> > > or sweeten it to see how that turns out. I gave up on the pinot
> > > grigio last year...
> >
> > > Once you plant it takes a couple years to see where things end up,I
> > > was just speaking to the local region, not the variety in general.
> >
> > > Joe
> >
> > Great fun Joe. It has always amazed me how easy wine is to make.
> > You fermenting in 5 gal glass bottles or barrels? Used to be that white
> > grapes were ready at 21 to 23 brix and reds at 22 to 24 and a total acid
> > of about .7% but these days everybody is making wine for Robert Parker
> > which means soft, high alcohol wines that are picked at 24 to 28 brix.
> > This is a good time of year to have a cellar full of cool white wine.
> > It's a 101F outside as I type. It's no good for grapes, all they can do
> > in this heat is pump water for evaporative cooling. No energy for
> > ripening grapes.
> >
> > To your health.
> > --
> >
> > Billy
> > Bush and Pelosi Behind
> > Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www.you
> > tube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related
>
> Billy,
> I use carboys and demijohns and usually ferment with heavy toast oak
> chips or cubes. I don't understand the higher alcohol trend, balance
> is balance. I have never made a wine over 14% ABV that didn't taste
> hot; I just don't care for them. I have had a nice old vine Zin that
> high but I didn't make it, my grapes aren't of that caliber.
>
> Joe

I agree. Higher grape sugars make for nice sipping wines but 21% to 24%
make for better table wines, IMHO.

Harvest for sparkling wines will start in about a month here. Better
start cleaning your equipment ;-)
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related